Mini 1413 - The Mind Reader Mafia - Game Over

[Loranthaceae]

Dude Uber, if you are town looks like we got to stick together and lynch this MR if we want to win

[UberNinja]

Dude Uber, if you are town looks like we got to stick together and lynch this MR if we want to win

uh, if it's you vs. him then i'm definitely lynching you buddy

unless you are counter-claiming him (?)

why the FUCK doesn't anyone want to lynch mala
also penguin is starting to look scummier too

[Loranthaceae]

I can't imagine town LS positing a mere 18 posts about Day1 and not wanting to go into detail about them. Not indicating any planning, nor thought patterns that serve to figure stuff out ... just point by point shit?! No way. He must bes scum I beg all of you to sheep me on this one

Vote: Lastsurvivor

[CrashTextDummie]

Alright, question time:

LastSurvivor

:
1. On January 22nd (QT post 12), you posted in your QT that you didn't want a lurker wagon, and specifically not one on guille. Why did you not voice this opinion in thread? Why is there not a single non-incidental mention of guille in all of your D1 posting? Why did you attack MalaKitten for having had a null-read on guille (calling it fence sitting), when you yourself expressed nothing but a null read on him the two times you mentioned him in your QT and completely ignored him in-thread?
2. Please explain your complete U-turn on AP from having him as solid town to putting him at L-1.
3. Please explain how how your penguin-alien read evolved over the course of the game. Starting at QT post 58, you had her in the scum-pile, moved her to null (QT 77), to presenting me as a PoE choice (QT 99) which would indicate she had moved to town-leaning (you actually expressed extreme uncertainty about her and Mala in that same QT post, so bonus question: how can you deduce a player by PoE when there's several players you're extremely uncertain about?)

----------------

penguin_alien

:
1. What was your primary intention in using your QT? It differs significantly in both style and content from every other QT. Why were you the player most interested in trying to figure out the MR (trying to get him to to signal you/trying to look for signals)?
2. Explain your Mehdi reads over the course of the game. Why were you intransparent at the beginning of D2 (you had her in a list of solid town reads in your QT, as going from "leaning scum to leaning town" in thread, then in post 772, you have her in a list of possible suspects but "moving towards town") when it came to her spot? Why did you call her out as shady for pointing out an alleged obvtown tell on you (QT 31), which happened on D1, after you had transitioned to a town read? What made you change your mind into lynching the slot?
3. Explain your (lack of) read on the AngryPigeon slot. There is virtually no analysis on it in your QT (mostly "where's Adam?!" type stuff, literally no non-incidental mention of AP) and nothing in-thread except you placing him at the bottom of a 5 person "want to lynch"-list and stating that you "personally didn't want to lynch him". He was not listed in your beginning of D2 town list, you have never openly expressed a town read on him, and yet you opposed his wagon for nebulous reasons but not really.
4. Who are you currently suspicious of? You've said at the beginning of the day that Loran is scummy and that you wouldn't mind lynching me either. Now that I'm confirmed town, why are you unwilling to update your reads until you've heard back from me?

---------------

UberNinja

:
1. Serious answer now: Why was that one post from me at the beginning of today enough for you to vote me over your previous suspects when you've never mentioned me or my predecessor before either in-thread or in your QT?
2. Why did you go from having independent thoughts and suspicions yesterday to falling in line with the lynch du jour today?
3. Why do you think Loran is town?
4. Please give substantiated reads on Mastin and Penguin_Alien.

------------------

MalaKitten

:

1. Why did you make virtually no use of your QT?
2. Why the flip flop on AngryPidgeon's slot? You had a scum read on his predecessor, then "double guessed" yourself because you liked AP's posts, then jumped on his wagon as soon as it became feasible, bizarrely apologizing to him.
3. Why did you partake in the qwints lynch? Your stated reason for lynching AP was "you look decent, but I can't toss out everything that Adam did", and yet you

did

throw out everything that Mehdi did when you voted him. Mehdi felt town to you. Really, really town. You put qwints at L-1 "to test something" and then proceeded to lurk your way to night. Explain.
4. Who's scum? Last we've heard, you were town on Mastin/Loran, town on Uber on the condition that GI figured out the MR early (he did), unwilling to lynch PA because of Nacho's read on her, undecided on LS, willing to lynch me. Why are you not scumhunting?

----------------

Mastin2

:

1. Why are you pushing UN/Mala and not PA/LS? Looking at your play over the course of the game, the second should look much, much more likely to you.
2. Why are you putting so much stock in Nacho's reads, when he's demonstrated nothing but bad judgement in this game? Why does someone who was so evidently wrong in his reads cause you to bump players from 75% certain to 99% certain town?
3. Why aren't you the least bit rattled by the fact that your strongest scum read turned up to be town?
4. Why does your idea on whether scum is likely to [url=http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4808361[/url] conveniently change to suit your purpose?
5. When and why did your read on penguin_alien change from scum to def-town?

[CrashTextDummie]

The next course of action for me is to summarize the QTs of dead people for posterity and checking the various paraphrases of QTs for correctitude while waiting for answers. After that, I'm doing a detailed vote count analysis, followed by analyzing individual voting behavior. All of this will be done by tomorrow night.

[CrashTextDummie]

I mangled Mastin's question 4:

4. Why does your idea on whether scum is likely to (cross)bus conveniently change to suit your purpose?

[Malakittens]

1. Why did you make virtually no use of your QT?
2. Why the flip flop on AngryPidgeon's slot? You had a scum read on his predecessor, then "double guessed" yourself because you liked AP's posts, then jumped on his wagon as soon as it became feasible, bizarrely apologizing to him.
3. Why did you partake in the qwints lynch? Your stated reason for lynching AP was "you look decent, but I can't toss out everything that Adam did", and yet you did throw out everything that Mehdi did when you voted him. Mehdi felt town to you. Really, really town. You put qwints at L-1 "to test something" and then proceeded to lurk your way to night. Explain.
4. Who's scum? Last we've heard, you were town on Mastin/Loran, town on Uber on the condition that GI figured out the MR early (he did), unwilling to lynch PA because of Nacho's read on her, undecided on LS, willing to lynch me. Why are you not scumhunting?

1. Been busy as hell due to classes. Felt bad about all the replacements so thought when things calmed down for me I could play normally, but when things semi-calmed down - I was getting heat by ICE and due to our blow up I stopped being motivated to try. I didn't like the fact when I attempted to do something like catch up he called me scum for it.

2. I had a strong scum read on Adam yes. AP's posts did give me a really big gut-town vibe and due to that I double-guessed. I lynched him because I was paranoid about Adam still being scum and if the game ended and turned up that slot was scum all along I wouldn't have forgave myself for not pushing harder for the lynch. I apologized to AP because my vote on him was mainly due to Adam and not because of what AP was doing.

3. Mehdi was strong town to me. All of his meta seemed to be going in his town direction, but Qwints ended up destroying that read by lurking. Recent game I played with Qwints he basically came when called out and he was doing the lurking there as he was doing here. My reaction was I wanted to see who would call me out on it. I also wanted to see if Qwints would come back to the thread and if he did how would he have reacted to it. I didn't proceed to lurk my way into night. It might be super hard to believe, but I'm not on MS 24/7 because I actually have priorities. So if going to work/school is lurking - then so be it.

4. Honestly, I'm not really sure. Part of me feels like if GI knew that Jun was the MR - why didn't he kill him on Night 1. Which brings me to question whether or not that whole slot is town or scum. I did think it could possibly be scum due to the way ICE reacted to the hammer by Lora and how the lynch came about and him not dying Night 1. UN is trying to take control and steer the town onto a better lynch even though his current direction is towards me that makes me feel like he's town motivated.

I can't really talk much about Mastin, but I'm starting to really think he's town and not scum. I could only explain further after an ongoing game ends because it was brought up there.

PA's town read is starting to slip. I am also astounded about how willingly people were giving signals out especially when they weren't certain of the alignment because it could actually be a trap. I still currently think the way PA put Guille to L-1 seems like a huge bus. To me there has to be at least one person busing Guille. If there isn't then scum just played a really ballsy game.

As for Lora.. There has been certain comments by him that makes me think he's scum rather than town. First off the hammer by him was sloppy on Guille. Secondly, his comment towards T-Bone after he was NK made zero sense for town to do that. Thirdly, the whole Jal was killed because UN was scared of being caught felt more like a trap to me to steer the town into lynching a strong town player. Why isn't Lora dead yet after Guille went after him, but also the way he hammered Guille. Something is off about this scenario.

Clearly you are the MR so there's no use in lynching CT.

I'm still undecided on LS. He makes me want to just hide in a damn hole because he's a puzzle.

I'm really not in the mood to have to go reread all the pages to come up empty because if I'm already lost now and I double guessed everything so far this game - what's to say I won't still be that way after I'm done?

[CrashTextDummie]

1. And why would all that keep you from communicating with a confirmed town role?

2. Not satisfied by this answer. Why would you feel the need to apologize to someone you think is scum for lynching him, irregardless of why you think he's scum?

3. I don't see how qwints could have destroyed a strong town read on his slot. You actually stated that qwints felt town to you in his own right. I'm having trouble seeing you put him at L-1 as a reaction test to "see who would call you out" when Loran had zealously hammered on every previous day when given the chance. And parking a L-1 vote and then posting one-liners for the remainder does qualify as lurking. You had a 4 day gap in activity during which you had been posting in other games.

4. I've just read the game and all QTs three times over. You're an original player and should be more invested. This is extraordinarily weak.

[Malakittens]

I'm currently on spring break and I'm still not going to reread because my mind creates really crazy theories that would likely be ignored anyways and with my luck will point to the wrong scum team.

You might not be satisfied with my answers, but those are my answers. When I barely have time to read or even play, why would I have time to post in a QT or even best what would I say? Sorry, I'm busy as hell and hopefully get ontop of it soon when soon never comes?

I'm sorry that I have feelings and want to show those feels after voting a player who has done nothing wrong or even argue against what his pred did. So I did feel bad for voting him.

Okay my activity has been decent in other games, but during those games I wasn't pages behind and taking heat and being called to almost 1vs1 a player. Just saying I have a tendency to want to not play after actions of players such as ICE. I even wanted to play less during the game Nacho railed roaded me recently in and there has been others. Believe it or not I don't like it when I get pissed and blow up in a thread because it results in going backwards towards the type of player I'm wanting to be.

So you ask me for my opinions on who's scum and in return don't even care. Sure you got time to spare, but I don't. Want to know what I'm doing over my SB? Reading 4 books for a research paper(oh and no they aren't short or easy reads at best)

As I did the math on Thursday we have one mislynch left. If its me so be it.

[CrashTextDummie]

I do care about your answers and will take them into consideration. You might have noticed I'm critical of every player in the game. I have also indicated that I don't find you the most likely candidate for Loran's buddy. So please stop being defeatist and make more of an effort towards figuring this game out.

[UberNinja]

UberNinja

:
1. Serious answer now: Why was that one post from me at the beginning of today enough for you to vote me over your previous suspects when you've never mentioned me or my predecessor before either in-thread or in your QT?
2. Why did you go from having independent thoughts and suspicions yesterday to falling in line with the lynch du jour today?
3. Why do you think Loran is town?
4. Please give substantiated reads on Mastin and Penguin_Alien.

1. gut
2. because I was the one pushing it
3. because he's playing in a way that's extremely, extremely hard to fake as scum, and it's completely consistent with the town game i played with him before
4. don't really have anything substantive on either of them. again, gut.

but i have played with both of them at least 2-3 times

[UberNinja]

p.s. look how "invested" mala is now that i'm interested in lynching her, and now that she knows you are the backup MR, and you're actually grilling her

she was plenty content to sit back and relax before

she's pretty much confscum

[UberNinja]

I mangled Mastin's question 4:

4. Why does your idea on whether scum is likely to (cross)bus conveniently change to suit your purpose?

this is a good catch. willing to lynch mastin, but only after mala

[Loranthaceae]

I would like some questions too please, if it's not too much trouble.

[penguin_alien]

Alright, question time.

----------------

penguin_alien

:
1. What was your primary intention in using your QT? It differs significantly in both style and content from every other QT. Why were you the player most interested in trying to figure out the MR (trying to get him to to signal you/trying to look for signals)?
2. Explain your Mehdi reads over the course of the game. Why were you intransparent at the beginning of D2 (you had her in a list of solid town reads in your QT, as going from "leaning scum to leaning town" in thread, then in post 772, you have her in a list of possible suspects but "moving towards town") when it came to her spot? Why did you call her out as shady for pointing out an alleged obvtown tell on you (QT 31), which happened on D1, after you had transitioned to a town read? What made you change your mind into lynching the slot?
3. Explain your (lack of) read on the AngryPigeon slot. There is virtually no analysis on it in your QT (mostly "where's Adam?!" type stuff, literally no non-incidental mention of AP) and nothing in-thread except you placing him at the bottom of a 5 person "want to lynch"-list and stating that you "personally didn't want to lynch him". He was not listed in your beginning of D2 town list, you have never openly expressed a town read on him, and yet you opposed his wagon for nebulous reasons but not really.
4. Who are you currently suspicious of? You've said at the beginning of the day that Loran is scummy and that you wouldn't mind lynching me either. Now that I'm confirmed town, why are you unwilling to update your reads until you've heard back from me?

1. I believe I tried asking for signals once from Junpei's time, once from Nachomamma8's time, and once from your time. I also included a way for the MR to signal only if he was about to be lynched and I could take action to change it. Given that the MR is the only non-vanilla feature of the game, making sure the MR has a way to make contact just seems like good sense. WRT other parts of my QT, I'll admit this has been a really irritating game for me. I don't like to get emotions mixed in with play, but it was supremely frustrating to have the whole confirmation-lying accusations go down at the start (mostly because I like to think I wouldn't be so stupid as to tell bald-faced lies like that) and I've found Loranthaceae to be rude enough that if this game hand't had such problems finding replacements, I probably would have replaced out. Otherwise I'm not sure what you mean by my using the QT differently; give me specifics and I'll answer further.

2. I found Mehdi2277 hard to categorize. His pointing me out as town was done in a way that made it impossible for me to be the MR, thus depriving the town of another potential killbait to help the MR hide. I guess my reads did vary as Mehdi2277 went wild with the GreyICE-CityElectric scum triangle theory. The slot got pretty scummy with qwints, especially as contrasted with the AP lynch. Then qwints kept tossing out votes like the one on UberNinja with an attitude of disinterest, like he figured he was going down but didn't want to help the town before doing so.

3. Adam disappeared at the end of Day One, which meant I had no idea how his slot would have reacted to the scum lynch, so no town read. AngryPidgeon's wagon didn't seem good to me. It was being pushed through with zero good arguments, which meant there was nothing to argue against. He was a better choice than, say, mastin2, but that didn't mean much.

4. I'd go with Malakittens first, and then I'm not sure between Loranthaceae and LastSurvivor. Loranthaceae is scummier, but I don't trust my read there based on my personal antipathy. LastSurvivor's gotten less involved since his defense Day Two, and I don't like that he wasn't scum-hunting much while under pressure. UberNinja's an outside shot, but only because he's tricky, which isn't really a reason. On Loranthaceae, Nachomamma8 saw scum-Loranthaceae in action in a newbie game and called him town here, which also influences my take on him. As far as waiting for your input before voting, why not reason with maximum information? Plus you asked us to wait on voting, and to me, accusations without a vote are rather empty.

[Lastsurvivor]

I can't imagine town LS positing a mere 18 posts about Day1 and not wanting to go into detail about them. Not indicating any planning, nor thought patterns that serve to figure stuff out ... just point by point shit?! No way. He must bes scum I beg all of you to sheep me on this one

Vote: Lastsurvivor

Those posts are literally notes on the game. I.e "post x: 'thoughts on post x.'" they were the most dense part of my QT until I started posting ISO notes in there. Summarizing every single one of those posts would be a pain in the ass.

Pls think of something better, thanks.

-----

1. On January 22nd (QT post 12), you posted in your QT that you didn't want a lurker wagon, and specifically not one on guille. Why did you not voice this opinion in thread? Why is there not a single non-incidental mention of guille in all of your D1 posting? Why did you attack MalaKitten for having had a null-read on guille (calling it fence sitting), when you yourself expressed nothing but a null read on him the two times you mentioned him in your QT and completely ignored him in-thread?
2. Please explain your complete U-turn on AP from having him as solid town to putting him at L-1.
3. Please explain how how your penguin-alien read evolved over the course of the game. Starting at QT post 58, you had her in the scum-pile, moved her to null (QT 77), to presenting me as a PoE choice (QT 99) which would indicate she had moved to town-leaning (you actually expressed extreme uncertainty about her and Mala in that same QT post, so bonus question: how can you deduce a player by PoE when there's several players you're extremely uncertain about?)

1. I wasn't around while most of the Guille wagon formed, iirc. I saw GI's and Tbone's votes, and I didn't think it would go anywhere because they were essentially pressure voting.

re Mala: It wasn't her read I necessarily had a problem with -- it was that she a) ignored me when I asked about it and, b) couldn't explain her read after I asked her about it.

2. Nacho convinced me to take a second look, and AP's responses were shitty. I didn't like how he kept on trying to disprove Nacho's town read on me, instead of proving that I was scum (at the time, I thought AP was rolefishing for the MR because he kept on prying into Nacho's reasoning, which was just his signal to let me know he was the MR).

3. PA scum mostly came from her attack on me and having an abundance of town reads at the time. There are things she's done that look more townie (i.e., posting all the VCs, actually researching my meta like I said before).

Bonus question: Because you and your predecessor had some scummy merits (you mostly), while PA had recently done some townie things and Mala had fallen off my radar.

[Malakittens]

Right I'm really 'invested' as I just answered questions that were asked of me.

[Lastsurvivor]

Questions for Mastin when he gets back, as his ISO rose the most (which was surprising, frankly):

1) Why did you go from saying CE was town in 1210 to voting his replacement in 1500. Also, why did you refer to CTD's posting as anti-town in #1503, and not scummy?

2) Why are you voting UN? You pretty much hopped on his predecessor's dick when you replaced in, yet you're voting UN for little to no reason at all. What's going on buckaroo?

3) How do you feel about the list you posted in 843 and your theory that there has to be at least one scum in it?

4) On a similar vein, how much real money are you still willing to bet that both scum are in the group you posed in #883?

[CrashTextDummie]

UN:

1. gut
2. because I was the one pushing it
3. because he's playing in a way that's extremely, extremely hard to fake as scum, and it's completely consistent with the town game i played with him before
4. don't really have anything substantive on either of them. again, gut.

but i have played with both of them at least 2-3 times

Be advised that I'm only asking you relatively softball questions because you've given me very little to work with and I decided not to ask you about GreyIce's portion of the game. These answers are completely unacceptable.

You do not get to question Mala's investment in the game when your usage of "gut" is pretty much just a euphemism for "I can't be bothered to read". Pop quiz: Say we lynch Mala today. What do you think is going to happen when she flips town and I'm gone tomorrow? If you are town, you are jeopardizing our victory in a big, big way with your conduct here.

Your push against me was

really

disproportionate if all you were going on was gut. You sure you don't want to amend that answer?

----------

Loran:

I would like some questions too please, if it's not too much trouble.

The first sentence in your latest QT post is probably accurate, but I'll humor you since you're asking nicely:
1. Who's your scumbuddy?

Kthxbai.

--------------

penguin:

1. I believe I tried asking for signals once from Junpei's time, once from Nachomamma8's time, and once from your time.

You seemed to spend a significant portion of D1 trying to figure out the MR. You not only gave a signal, but then looked really hard for someone using your signal, ruling several people out and giving an additional signal to people you thought might have been using your signal. Considering this, it's curious that you completely missed it when Nacho

did

give you a signal. Had you guys figured it out at that point?

Otherwise I'm not sure what you mean by my using the QT differently; give me specifics and I'll answer further.

Alright, I'll be more specific. Your QT is disproportionately about yourself. Explaining your actions, defending against Loran's accusations, presenting yourself as "near-confirmed" and speculating on the possibility of you being the NK, being introspective about your own play, etc. In essence, it looks like you were more worried about getting the MR to trust you than providing him with pertinent information.

2. I found Mehdi2277 hard to categorize.

Really. Then why did you have her as a firm town read in your QT 25 when analyzing the guille wagon? There's no indication of conflict there, as you did have Loran as "tentative".

His pointing me out as town was done in a way that made it impossible for me to be the MR, thus depriving the town of another potential killbait to help the MR hide.

This line of thinking doesn't make sense to me at all. If Mehdi were scum, how would her pointing out something that would indicate you not being the MR deprive the town of a potential killbait? Why wouldn't she just keep it in the scum QT? If anything, I don't see how this shouldn't be a clear town-tell on Mehdi's part from your point of view. I'm pretty sure you mixed up bad play with scum play there.

Re: AngryPigeon's slot:
Adam was among the most active players on D1. AP was among the most active players on D2. Are you really telling me that you couldn't get a read on him just because he wasn't around for the D1 lynch? Didn't try to get a read on him when people started pushing him? A wagon being pushed for zero good arguments

is

something to argue against.

As far as waiting for your input before voting, why not reason with maximum information? Plus you asked us to wait on voting, and to me, accusations without a vote are rather empty.

We are trying to solve the puzzle right now, not to lynch. You don't need your vote for that. Following my claim, there was one guy who hasn't figured out he should stop playing on cruise control, one gal who admits to not really caring and never really having cared, one guy who was clearly surprised and funneled this into analyzing people he didn't previously consider and one guy who went to the hospital. And then there's you. You are playing it extremely close to the chest. You don't need maximum information to give novel insight in light of an alignment reveal from one of your top suspects. You don't need maximum information to want to rethink the game. On the other hand, it's in scum's best interest to let the dust settle and the new landscape become clear before taking action in order to best avoid triggering any landmines.

You are mentioning everyone as potential scum except Mastin. You've mentioned previously that he's the only player you would stick your neck out for. I'd like you to do that now.

---------------

LastSurvivor:

1. I wasn't around while most of the Guille wagon formed, iirc. I saw GI's and Tbone's votes, and I didn't think it would go anywhere because they were essentially pressure voting.

re Mala: It wasn't her read I necessarily had a problem with -- it was that she a) ignored me when I asked about it and, b) couldn't explain her read after I asked her about it.

2. Nacho convinced me to take a second look, and AP's responses were shitty. I didn't like how he kept on trying to disprove Nacho's town read on me, instead of proving that I was scum (at the time, I thought AP was rolefishing for the MR because he kept on prying into Nacho's reasoning, which was just his signal to let me know he was the MR).

3. PA scum mostly came from her attack on me and having an abundance of town reads at the time. There are things she's done that look more townie (i.e., posting all the VCs, actually researching my meta like I said before).

Bonus question: Because you and your predecessor had some scummy merits (you mostly), while PA had recently done some townie things and Mala had fallen off my radar.

1. Kind of sidestepping the question. Why speak out against a lurker wagon on guille specifically to the MR, but not in-thread where you a) could be held accountable for it and b) where it could actually influence gamestate?

2. Please point out which of AP's responses specifically you found shitty.

Bonus Question: That's kind of the opposite of PoE, so why present it as such? Speaking of my scummy merits, let's expand on that. The only thing you've really had to say about me and my predecessor in your analysis was that we were "nonorganic". That's a pretty nondescript reason to suspect someone. Please explain what you found nonorganic about our play and why you thought it was scummy.

[CrashTextDummie]

Mala, this wasn't adressed:

3. I don't see how qwints could have destroyed a strong town read on his slot. You actually stated that qwints felt town to you in his own right. I'm having trouble seeing you put him at L-1 as a reaction test to "see who would call you out" when Loran had zealously hammered on every previous day when given the chance.

Also, please point out which actions of GreyIce you objected to specifically.

[penguin_alien]

Yeah, I missed Nachomamma8's signal. I wasn't expecting him to go from questioning my towniness to deciding I was town enough to signal if he was the MR pretty much back-to-back. Otherwise I used my QT to record things I was mulling over but didn't want to bring up in-thread. Which wasn't all that much. And I expected that the MR would likely trust me Day One after the confirmation debacle, so it made sense to try to make it easier to communicate in a more directed fashion. If there was something I though the MR should know, it almost certainly would end up being shared with the town as a whole. Besides, if the MR doesn't trust me, what's the point of making a particular effort to persuade him about anything?

Let me specify: over the course of the game I found it hard to pin down Medhi2277. His interaction with the guille2015 wagon looked good, especially with him convincing me to vote guille2015 over Loranthaceae, but that only worked if I wasn't entertaining a Mehdi-Loranth scum team where Loranth was the psychic. It was a working theory I jettisoned when qwints flipped town.

And what was the town motivation in pointing out that I was town but not the MR based on the confirmation thing? Maybe it was just bad play, but given that I see Mehdi2277 as a good player, that's not my go-to answer.

Adam posted a lot, then disappeared. His signal-to-noise ratio was low, and he wasn't overly town or scum relative to others. I outlined why I wanted qwints over AngryPidgeon in #1060, and the rest of the lynch went down when I didn't have time to post. Before then I was on LastSurvivor, so no, I didn't get super-vocal in AP's defense.

Why do you want me to defend mastin2? He came in and went after guille2015 at a time when that lynch wasn't on the radar in my estimation, so unless he decided to jump-start things by bussing, him being scum feels unlikely. I suppose if Loranthaceae is the psychic mastin2 being scum bussing to save a more valuable role tracks, but there were plenty of other players to call out, and even if he took heat for the lynch later, he could be bussed at that point. So it doesn't look like an optimal play for scum-mastin2.

Look, there are seven players, five possible lynches to my mind. mastin2 is out, and I really don't trust my opinion on Loranthaceae. That leaves Malakittens, UberNinja, and LastSurvivor. Given that Malakittens has been disengaged by her own admission and UberNinja's been opaque in his thought process in-thread, yes I wanted to see where your analysis would lead. And yes, I play things close to my chest.

You say we're trying to solve the puzzle. You seem to have slotted Loranthaceae in as one of the pieces for reasons undisclosed. If you really think that, it's a different analysis than an unknown two-man scum team. I'm not inclined to jump through hoops to no purpose.

[Lastsurvivor]

1. Kind of sidestepping the question. Why speak out against a lurker wagon on guille specifically to the MR, but not in-thread where you a) could be held accountable for it and b) where it could actually influence gamestate?

....Because I didn't think they were going to lynch guille. I didn't see the reason to tell two people to take off pressure votes.

2. Please point out which of AP's responses specifically you found shitty.

915, 922, 963, 985, 1136 are some examples.

Bonus Question: That's kind of the opposite of PoE, so why present it as such? Speaking of my scummy merits, let's expand on that. The only thing you've really had to say about me and my predecessor in your analysis was that we were "nonorganic". That's a pretty nondescript reason to suspect someone. Please explain what you found nonorganic about our play and why you thought it was scummy.

PA I thought was town, Mala had fallen off my radar. I.E., I THOUGHT she was town because I wasn't really paying attention to her. not sure how that's not PoE. It's a silly point regardless.

re my read on you (another silly point but I see the merit): I thought you were scum because of the Loran read, mostly. You accused UN of ignoring things that happened in the last 60 pages here while you were doing the same thing for Loran.

re CE: It was the out of nowhere scum read on me that made me suspicious of CE. And the out of nowhere Mastin town read. Each had little to no basis. I thought her attack on PA was lacking as well, being based mostly on the PEDIT point.

I should note that at the time of calling you a POE candidate I thought CE was the townier of the two of you, but then when I did the ISOs it was the other way around.

[UberNinja]

UN:

1. gut
2. because I was the one pushing it
3. because he's playing in a way that's extremely, extremely hard to fake as scum, and it's completely consistent with the town game i played with him before
4. don't really have anything substantive on either of them. again, gut.

but i have played with both of them at least 2-3 times

Be advised that I'm only asking you relatively softball questions because you've given me very little to work with and I decided not to ask you about GreyIce's portion of the game. These answers are completely unacceptable.

You do not get to question Mala's investment in the game when your usage of "gut" is pretty much just a euphemism for "I can't be bothered to read". Pop quiz: Say we lynch Mala today. What do you think is going to happen when she flips town and I'm gone tomorrow? If you are town, you are jeopardizing our victory in a big, big way with your conduct here.

Your push against me was

really

disproportionate if all you were going on was gut. You sure you don't want to amend that answer?

yes i am sure that "gut" is my final answer

and no matter what mala flips you will be gone tomorrow as you are the only confirmed town and scum needs as big of a mislynch pool as possible

if she flips town though the scum is almost certainly mastin/penguin
and for DAMN sure it's 2 of mastin/penguin/lastsurvivor

and yes, i can't really be arsed about this game because i have plenty of others to play and this one is low on the totem pole because i have already found scum, and now they just need to be lynched

don't make me fucking rage at you

just because you're backup MR (no counter-claims, so it's true) doesn't mean that suddenly you're the best scumhunter here, it just means you're confirmed town, and confirmed townies are quite often STUPID AS SHIT

so don't expect me to follow you

[CrashTextDummie]

p_a:

Let me specify: over the course of the game I found it hard to pin down Medhi2277. His interaction with the guille2015 wagon looked good, especially with him convincing me to vote guille2015 over Loranthaceae, but that only worked if I wasn't entertaining a Mehdi-Loranth scum team where Loranth was the psychic. It was a working theory I jettisoned when qwints flipped town.

Can you please rephrase this? It's not making much sense to me. That you stopped entertaining a Mehdi/Loran scumteam when the former flipped town is not much of a statement.

And what was the town motivation in pointing out that I was town but not the MR based on the confirmation thing? Maybe it was just bad play, but given that I see Mehdi2277 as a good player, that's not my go-to answer.

There is strong town motivation to point out a likely town tell on someone and zero scum motivation in pointing out a likely PR tell when there is day talk available. Mehdi didn't actually point out that you couldn't be the MR and it probably didn't even occur to him.

Why do you want me to defend mastin2?

Because you've never given a reason for your mastin-town read and because I think it's likely between you and him. So it's just the fact that he was early on guille?
a) I don't see why you would characterize this as "not optimal play for scum-mastin", since clearly it's been doing him wonders if he's scum.
b) I don't see why you would entertain elaborate "Medhi/Loran scumteam conspired to bus guille to protect the psychic" theories while simultaneously ruling out a player for something that looks like it could very easily be a bus

You say we're trying to solve the puzzle. You seem to have slotted Loranthaceae in as one of the pieces for reasons undisclosed. If you really think that, it's a different analysis than an unknown two-man scum team. I'm not inclined to jump through hoops to no purpose.

Are you suggesting that I don't really think that?

-------------------

LS:

PA I thought was town, Mala had fallen off my radar. I.E., I THOUGHT she was town because I wasn't really paying attention to her. not sure how that's not PoE. It's a silly point regardless.

It's not a silly point. In your QT, you stated that I was a PoE choice, you suspected UN because of qwints being town, that you weren't fully confident in your Mastin read and that you were very uncertain about PA/Mala. How can you use process of elimination to suspect me if you haven't actually eliminated anyone except apparently Loran?

------------------

UberNinja:

Please, please, please stop being dumb and stubborn.

If Mala is lynched today and flips town, I guarantee you that you will be lynched tomorrow. You're tunneling on her like you were tunneling on me. You refuse to contribute any insight into anyone not Mala. You are acting extremely anti-town.

I am in no way insinuating that I'm the best scumhunter. But you are asking me and others to sheep you (unconfirmed, tunneling, can't be arsed to actually analyze the game) without even entertaining the thought of listening to me (confirmed, has clearly spent a great deal of time and thought on the game these past few days, has more information than you). And I am not even asking you to follow me, I merely want you to fucking cooperate. This is the last day where you're getting to bounce ideas and reads off of me, and your refusal to do so is simply infuriating (not to mention the notion that "confirmed town are often stupid, so you're probably stupid, so why should I listen to you", which is a seriously fucking moronic and disrespectful thing to say).

[UberNinja]

I am caring about this game less and less. It's pretty clear that you intend to force through a lynch on whoever you damn well please.

I'm going to go along with whatever everyone else wants to do, and then whether or not that person flips scum, I am pushing Mala tomorrow.

We have 1 mislynch left and there are 2/3 scum in mala/mastin/penguin

with a smallllll outside chance of LS

so it's pretty much useless to argue about who we lynch today

we have enough lynches to get 3 people dead, as long as we hit scum at least once.