AMURIKA MAFIA - Game Over

[TraceyLyn11]

So....bypass your Jason/Bulb reads and go for "that null-scummish territory" person?

Yeah, kinda.

Lucky for you we have you as town...surprise surprise, due to SK's interactions with Joel.

Yes, and people's reasoning for me being town because of my interactions with Joel are ridiculous! I just didn't question it because it's nice not being part of the lynch pool.

2) Tracey, sure interactions can only mean 'so much' in most cases but the flipped scum yelled and accused Cryo of 'cheating' and was insistent that he should be modkilled, that's not interaction that occurs between partners. Their town without a shadow of doubt so kill whatever paranoia/bad feelings you have on them.

That was derpy on my part. I forgot about that.

Scum read lists are filled with WIFOM. By their very nature they are faked. Therefore, using that as a basis to call someone else scum is horribad and therefore useless. However, as secondary evidence in an already established case, it can be quite telling.

The fact of the matter is that we have no idea why Joel called Om and myself town and everyone else on the wagon scum (Reminder: the reads were for those on his wagon only). Using that as the only basis to call someone scum is just bad scumhunting, although I get the sense that that doesn't bother you.

So... Using interactions to say people are town is okay, but propose the idea that interactions point to someone being scum... OH NOOOO THAT'S IMPOOOOSSIBLE.

I agree with you. I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy. Like, for fuck's sake:

However, as secondary evidence in an already established case, it can be quite telling.

Interactions may be good if you already have a case for someone being town. But they shouldn't be the only thing.

Translation: "I am going to scumhunt by disregarding the very fundamentals of scumhunting."

I'm the VI?! Do you not see the hypocrisy in your own post? We said almost the exact same thing! The difference: I believe that interactions don't confirm someone as town or scum. You seem to believe that they can confirm people as town, but no way in hell can they prove someone to be scum!

1) If someone can provide me links towards Jason!Town and Jason!Scum and him avoiding answering questions being part of his scum-play that'd be greatly appreciated because his play today has really been him trying to coast through the day saying as little as possible. Doesn't seem like he's interested in scumhunting. I'm not ready for a hammer YET because I do want to get around to this game a lot more.

No my play has been fucking over this retarded town, I am 99% sure that bulb is scum, i have been pointing this out for days and no one has even listened to me.

My case is pretty simple. It boils down to: Why the hell would Jason get a strongman modifier unless he has a gun? But then I see Nacho's face, and I think that it could be possible. But I've also played with town-Jason (when I was scum, no less!), and he's not useless. He talks, he gets discussion going, he asks good, probing questions. He's not this lurk-sack who only posts to make jabbing comments at Bulb. With or without meta, his play today hasn't been pro-town. I want him hung for his crimes, damn it!

intent to hammer pls

DO YOU PEOPLE NOT FUCKING READ WHAT I HAVE FUCKING SAID

AT ALL!

I have explained this time and time again nice to know that NO-ONE is reading what i have said.

Also i am taking jabs because i am OVER NO ONE FUCKING LISTENING TO ME.

So when i flip town Bored Patriot or town 1-shot strongman or whatever nacho decides i am, LYNCH THE FUCK OUT OF BULB



Goodmorning you may hammer, fuck you all.

This post is so town.

... Or maybe third-party... WHICH IS STILL BAD.

[JasonWazza]

This post is so town.

... Or maybe third-party... WHICH IS STILL BAD.

It's so town because i AM town, you can redeem yourself tomorrow.

[Bulbazak]

So... Using interactions to say people are town is okay, but propose the idea that interactions point to someone being scum... OH NOOOO THAT'S IMPOOOOSSIBLE.

Read lists from scum are not interactions, they are a crap ton of WIFOM as has repeatedly been said. Single posts ARE NOT interactions! Interactions are the way two players speak and deal with each other, specifically the back-and-forths. Ergo, in order for there to be an interaction, two people must...wait for it...INTERACT! How scum interact with other players can be telling, as this is where they can accidentally let something slip. That is why it forms the basis of scumhunting.

Seriously, are you always this bad?!

Also, still waiting for your case on me Jason. Tick tock...

[Gorgon]

Great. I'm AFK for about 24 hours and there's a lynch when I get back. I don't think it was a bad lynch though although some more time for discussion wouldn't have hurt at all. And since the thread's still open ...

he called the three people voting him scum

I've already addressed this, no?

I must have missed that then. You're still being pretty terse in your posting though.

Gorgon, what is your read on Jason?

Pretty much unchanged from #923. His blowup doesn't say much other than he was very angry and it's something that could come from both town and scum in this situation.

I also pointed out that Bulb has done it the three players.

You mean soft push (which is what I'm addressing in the stuff you quoted)? Because it read to me like you were mainly accusing him of avoiding voting Jason. The 'three players' thing fits the trend of him doubting claims better, and you seem to be talking about that:

I've never played with him before, but casting doubt on some claims but others are acceptable seems selective to me. If he wants to make flavor arguments, then fine. Or setup speculation, I also understand. But using all three plus "I can't find you on Google" makes it seem less genuine.

Fair enough. It reads pretty genuine to me although I disagree with it. Again that's gut though.

However, Hiraki's day1 defnse of "noob Joel" I guess would be incriminating, but I don't get the feeling Hiraki would defend a scumbuddy. Also, I felt the same way, if not as strong, so don't really think it's all that scummy.

I actually at the time felt that his hard defense was not incriminating, but the opposite of that, so I had Hiraki as town after D1 but it's his more recent play that comes off as not protown at best and scummy at worst. Maybe he was invoking WIFOM with his hard defense of Joel and felt he had something of a free pass from there.

Aside from vote-hopping and voting you, why is he scum?

Lack of juicy content, i.e. some actual contribution to the game. That's actually my main reason. Just look at the length and content of his posts lately. Maybe he's just bored with the game and/or confused about it, but this behavior

is

scummy.

Vote: Jason

GOD DAMN IT I WAS GOING TO UNVOTE

Then why didn't you when you last posted before this post? At what point did you want to unvote and why?

[JasonWazza]

This post is so town.

... Or maybe third-party... WHICH IS STILL BAD.

Gorgon you fail to read, also

Pretty much unchanged from #923. His blowup doesn't say much other than he was very angry and it's something that could come from both town and scum in this situation.

I'm fucking town.

[goodmorning]

Deadline is close enough, more discussion did not look likely, and I've found Jason/Om scummy for quite some time. I find this lynch to be perfectly acceptable.

[JasonWazza]

You find lynching town acceptable? >.>

[Nachomamma8]

Tom Brady didn't always experience success. When he did, it was all he ever experienced: it was a drug that he simply could not get enough of. He figured he was the embodiment of the American Dream; after all, he was the epitome of those who pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, right? He figured he could best put his talent to work by picking up the work that any lesser being left off on. The lesser being he chose to be a spiritual successor was the Japanese man that had fled earlier; he Googled the hell out of "scary fire powers" and "crazy foreign people". Unfortunately, what came up wasn't exactly the same and essentially useless, but the little power he did get did give him a bit of a more sinister glow. And it was this glow that turned his people against him, and it was this glow that damned him when he said he was trying to figure out how to research how to kill people without being blocked by any man or woman because for some reason, it wasn't exactly a believable story.

So, the great quarterback of the most patriotic team fell, and his comrades mourned him. They swore they would band together to prevent this kind of misunderstanding ever again, and they swore that they wouldn't allow the greatness of AMURIKA to fade although it had started down a sinister path. They sang football songs in order to mourn his passing, and then decided that the Patriots were probably fucked for the next Superbowl.

JasonWazza (Thomas Edward Brady),

Town One-Shot Strongman

, lynched Day 3!

Night ends in 72 hours, so get those actions in!

[Nachomamma8]

You woke up in the morning, showered, brushed your teeth. You got dressed, took a couple of shots, then went downstairs. Everyone was sitting in their seats for a change, which made you smile. But then, you notice that JFK was sitting a little more quietly than usual, was a little paler than usual, and instead of his usual expression of goodwill, his face was a picture of perfect terror. You examine the body closer, seeing that the non-AMURIKAns had taken special care to bound his back to the chair and trap him there, to give him the appearance of being still-alive. There are no signs of a brutal death like the previous deaths have had, but all the signs of a struggle. They wanted JFK to suffer, and now it is your job to make him pay.

You pull his body off the chair, place him in the room with all of the other dead, for now. It's a bit of a savage arrangement, but there are no servants here anymore and it's not like you want to bury a body yourselves (you are the heroes of AMURIKA, not some goddamn creepy gravediggers), so JFK gets treated like a mere civillian. You drink to his honor, share stories of your favorite moments with the iconic man and the countless women he slept with, reminisce of the service he gave to his country. Then you got to work, bolted down the hatches, and prepped to avenge him. You put your shiniest scumhunting hats on and got to work. This death will not go unanswered. You walk up to his room, fetching his tape recorder he always spoke into, finding that it held one last message for you all:

Well everyone, this’ll be my death message and my last wishes so I really want everyone to take the time to actually read through, consider and then hopefully act on my thoughts. As of right now the following people alive include Goodmorning, Cryo, Bulb, Pere, Hiraki, Tracey and Gorgon. I’m predicting two deaths to occur tonight (There’s a SK, trust me on that – sad thing is that I’m bad at SK hunting so you’ll have to work out who it is yourselves and I’m not envious of you there at all).

Cryos interactions alongside with their attempt at clearing/confirming people via role PMs despite there being sample ones inside the OP is supersupertown. There’s no chance they’re scum, I will literally eat a brick and video tape it if they are; I’d actually also say they’re Not-SK too but again not confident in being able to read people as SK/Not- SK so well. Traceys also in this supertown section due to SKs interactions with Joel and while I despise her replace in strategy of not reading the whole game it comes across as if she’s just obstinate town – as mafia she’d be more likely to appease us, read it and then just coast given the town-read we have on her due to non-interactions. So never lynch these two, ever.

Goodmorning technically should be going with the above two (He’s townnn here) but given that others aren’t sharing this read or at least the strength of it I’ll go into it in more depth. Take a look at his scum games here and here, you’ll find that he provides a lot of IoA and isn’t exactly super-flowing with his thought process whereas in this game is very open; things like this and this are very town.

I did think Bulb is town and kind of still do but his reaction towards Jasons post-hammer comments has me second guessing - the fact that in this post he's more concerned with stating there's no case on him yet then reacting to the fact that we just mslynched is really weird (I'm leaning towards thinking it's just due to frustration of realizing that a town player was the one that was FoS'ing / pushing on you for shit and almost non-existent reasons). As for why he's town; I think his scum-read on Jason and his continuously stating that he thinks Arc died because Jason wanted to grab some form of Town-Cred! from it and not considering a vig / sk makes more sense as stubborn town but again his end of day really has me throwing this read up in the air. I'd say not to lynch him at the moment - ie. Today / Tomorrow but deal with him after that.

So putting those four in the town / maybe town pile the remaining include Pere, Hiraki and Gorgon.

Thinking about it we fucked up yesterday - A Jason lynch should never have occurred we should have lynched Hiraki, the fact that we didn't is bad play on my part combined with a lack of chance to get towards the game. None of the contradictions and weird / unexplained change of reads from Hiraki disappeared at all, we just let him of the hook due to him knowing the VT role thingy which is in the OP and thus not a town-tell. Combine that with the fact that his "I'm just going to sheep because I'm confused this game!" is just allowing himself a lack of responsibility of any vote of his and an allowance to not even have to fake scumhunting while leaving whatever mslynch-case he has in his pocket for lylo where he can use it to get his win. Not to mention he blatantly scumslipped and no one caught it; his statement of vig/sk and that he mixed games up in this isn't possible - there's no such game. He's realized that he fucked up and is back-pedalling there.

PV I don't know what to tell you. I have an inkling that he's town and think he's playing slightly more to his town meta but wouldn't bet the game on it and looking at ie PoE there's a chance he's scum. Again though, not who I'd be lynching. Then there was Gorgon. I re-read his 'explanations' and I'm still not sold on him. I think his posting here is more mechanical then his other games, think he's been posting very 'safely' and think his interaction with Joel works. Long story short I think he's still scum but someone else should go through him again and when Hiraki flips scum take a look at their interactions.

So, summary: Cryo / Tracey / Goodmorning are supertown. I think Bulb is town but having last minute doubts. Lean slight town on PV but again weak read. I think Gorgon is scum but not a 'he's scum for sure' thing and Hiraki IS scum and has scumslipped not to mention has a lot of contradictions in reads and an interaction with Joel that should be purged.

Regfan,

Innocent President,

killed Night 3!

[goodmorning]

Vote: Hiraki

Can we lynch him

now

?

[Hiraki]

Vote: Bulba

Can we lynch him

now?

[CryoChemist]

Hiraki, you should probably address Reg's block on you before we vote you. Specifically the bolded.

Reg wrote:

"Thinking about it we fucked up yesterday - A Jason lynch should never have occurred we should have lynched Hiraki, the fact that we didn't is bad play on my part combined with a lack of chance to get towards the game. None of the contradictions and weird / unexplained change of reads from Hiraki disappeared at all, we just let him of the hook due to him knowing the VT role thingy which is in the OP and thus not a town-tell. Combine that with the fact that his "I'm just going to sheep because I'm confused this game!" is just allowing himself a lack of responsibility of any vote of his and an allowance to not even have to fake scumhunting while leaving whatever mslynch-case he has in his pocket for lylo where he can use it to get his win.

Not to mention he blatantly scumslipped and no one caught it; his statement of vig/sk and that he mixed games up in this isn't possible - there's no such game. He's realized that he fucked up and is back-pedalling there

."

[Hiraki]

his statement of vig/sk and that he mixed games up in this isn't possible - there's no such game.

I do have an ongoing game with a vig. I'm not going into it more.

I've said that I've addressed a majority of his accusations already.

[CryoChemist]

Bulbazok

Sorry, looking fairly suspicious. Just a first vote, though.

^We can't shake the feeling that this post was from noob-scum Joel not realizing bussing your buddy is completely acceptable on this site....

_______________________________________________

Something is very wrong with Hiraki's post. The only game around the time frame he made the 2 deaths N1 comment that he was in is

not

ongoing. It's the only game with 2 deaths N1 that we found that was active on Mar 13. The question is, why is Hiraki not able to do the work

WE

did to find this game? Something is off. Something is lies. Need to consult other head....

[Hiraki]

Oh, okay. Yeah it ended.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=1125

That's a my bad but still this really doesn't matter.

[CryoChemist]

Bulbazok

Sorry, looking fairly suspicious. Just a first vote, though.

It ended on the 17th and your last post in it was the 18th. How did you not know it had ended in your post this morning?

[Hiraki]

Because I forgot it ended?

Again, still really shouldn't matter that much.

[CryoChemist]

OK, going to post something we drafted before taking a different approach with Hiraki:
_________________________________________________________

...he blatantly scumslipped and no one caught it; his statement of vig/sk and that he mixed games up in this isn't possible - there's no such game. He's realized that he fucked up and is back-pedalling there.

Our problem with this is he posts the "Because a 3-scum team with 2 deaths on N1 is pretty dumb." part and the "Fuck, just mixed up games." in the same damned post. It's the reason we weren't sure what to make of it to begin with. If you realize you slip like that as scum and then admit you mixed games in the same post, then why post it at all? This reads as more town than scum-slip.

Also, we did find a game that was in Night phase on the date of Hiraki's slip here, Mini 1422
_________________________________________________________

Now, we aren't saying Hiraki is town, but we are saying that this portion doesn't make sense as a scum slip at all. We are also saying that D1 super defense of Joel doesn't make sense either. We are also saying that his reaction to the PM fiasco doesn't make sense as scum either. We are basically saying Hiraki isn't the best lynch today. If there is a 3rd party, this is probably where we would look, but we'll address that below.

That, for us, leaves

Bulb

,

Gorgon

, and

PV

.

Reg was finally dealt with by scum (probably). His largest read yesterday that he never got around to was Gorgon. Coincidence? Scum setting up Gorgon or Gorgon not wanting Reg to get around to the case?

We aren't sure about the 3rd party thing. The most Reg gives us is that he's sure, but he didn't point out any ability to point to proof of being sure. We have 1 kill at night each night. This doesn't point to 3rd party either. It's possible that 3rd party is either non-killing or x-shot and shots were used up if they hit someone doc protected. At any rate, we aren't wanting to 3rd party hunt today anyway.

Thoughts GM and Tracey?

We are, for today going to trust Reg in these 2 reads at least. That said, we 3 need to be on the same page today.

[Gorgon]

Vote: Hiraki

Can we lynch him

now

?

VOTE: Hiraki

[Gorgon]

Now, we aren't saying Hiraki is town, but we are saying that this portion doesn't make sense as a scum slip at all. We are also saying that D1 super defense of Joel doesn't make sense either. We are also saying that his reaction to the PM fiasco doesn't make sense as scum either. We are basically saying Hiraki isn't the best lynch today.

I never saw the game mixup that Reg mentioned in his death post as a scumslip but I don't think it makes him town either, and I already addressed the fact that the Joel defense came off as very townish to me initially but his later behavior, especially yesterday, trumps this in my eyes. The PM discussion is something I need to take a closer look at though. For now I still think he's the best lynch today just as he would have been yesterday.

Reg was finally dealt with by scum (probably). His largest read yesterday that he never got around to was Gorgon. Coincidence? Scum setting up Gorgon or Gorgon not wanting Reg to get around to the case?

Well, he did make a case against me although it is true that he never really addressed my response to it, and in his last post he stated he didn't see me as town. Anyway, I think the most likely reason for his kill is that he was the only PR left, and an IC at that. If there were other factors involved at all in that kill decision they were probably secondary, and as you imply yourself speculating about them involves plenty of WIFOM anyway.

We aren't sure about the 3rd party thing. The most Reg gives us is that he's sure, but he didn't point out any ability to point to proof of being sure. We have 1 kill at night each night. This doesn't point to 3rd party either. It's possible that 3rd party is either non-killing or x-shot and shots were used up if they hit someone doc protected. At any rate, we aren't wanting to 3rd party hunt today anyway.

It looked to me like Reg based his insistence of there being a third party mostly on the fact that he didn't feel the AA9 kill made sense as a mafia kill. Yet another night with only one kill makes the third party theory rest on yet another contingency though so I agree that hunting for a third party should not be a priority.

[PeregrineV]

First, almost didn't read the flvor post due to length. But figured what the hey, might be funny. Glad I did since it's a RegFan message, and it made it easier to understand what everyone else was talking about.

Anyways. nothings changed, my top scums are Hiraki and Bulb.

[PeregrineV]

Our problem with this is he posts the "Because a 3-scum team with 2 deaths on N1 is pretty dumb." part and the "Fuck, just mixed up games." in the same damned post. It's the reason we weren't sure what to make of it to begin with. If you realize you slip like that as scum and then admit you mixed games in the same post, then why post it at all?

This reads as more town than scum-slip.

Also, we did find a game that was in Night phase on the date of Hiraki's slip here, Mini 1422

I think you are referring to this:

Because a 3-scum team with 2 deaths on N1 is pretty dumb.

Fuck, just mixed up games.

And I'm curious how you reached your opinion on this post.

If I'm town, and work up a post (or sentence in this case), and it's in the wrong game, but I haven't posted it yet, I don't post it, because it's in the wrong game. I don't realize it's the wrong game, and continue typing to say it's in the wrong game, and then hit the submit button.
If I'm scum, I might try something like this to give an impression of scumhunting in the other thread which would give a town association.

Can you explain the bolded, why does it seems like more of a town slip to post something that you know, before you post it, that does not belong where you are posting it?

[Bulbazak]

I did think Bulb is town and kind of still do but his reaction towards Jasons post-hammer comments has me second guessing - the fact that in this post he's more concerned with stating there's no case on him yet then reacting to the fact that we just mslynched is really weird (I'm leaning towards thinking it's just due to frustration of realizing that a town player was the one that was FoS'ing / pushing on you for shit and almost non-existent reasons).

I do want to address this real quick before I continue. I always get paranoid about a lynch during twilight. As such, I was giving Jason the opportunity that he should have been taking as town (giving final reads/thoughts). However, he continued to act anti-town until the end, which was making me feel good about the lynch...until the flip.

As far as an SK, while part of me still wants to give Reg the benefit of the doubt, Occam's Razor says otherwise. If we are to see something, it will probably happen tonight. Until then, I think it's best to isolate the remainder of the scumteam.

I'm also going to throw out a lot of the claim crap from the past 2 days, as I feel that the mass claim has done more harm than good and is actually confusing me. Regardless, everyone has claimed VT, so there should be no fear of accidentally lynching a PR.

I believe Hiraki and PV to be the remaining scum, mostly due to POE. However, I'm not sure who the best one to lynch is. Therefore, I want to ask Cryo a question, as he's the only one I really trust right now to give me the answer: There has been a lot of setup spec about town PR distributions in this game, but no one has ever done the same on the mafia side. Fact of the matter is that only having 1 mafia PR would make the game too town balanced, which means we have a second one floating around out there. What do you think the odds are on a mafia role cop? I think I might have found evidence for it, but I'm not sure.

[TraceyLyn11]

Hi guys. I've had a lot of birthday stuff going on between today and yesterday, and tomorrow I start back at school. Just wanted to post to say I'm here, and I'll get to actually participating and posting up my thoughts sometime tomorrow or the next day.

[CryoChemist]

Limited time to post this morning, will get to this game later...