Open 479: White Flag (Game Over)

[Huntress]

@Hunt - DCL is attempting to simplify him hammer into him acting on a false dillema (hammer or no hammer) and because he picked hammer, he cant be called scum for the vote. That just doent read as town trying to defend themselves but moreso scum that is overzealous in trying to wipeout something that can be used against them by doing such.

My initial reaction to DCL's hammer was that it was a bit quick, but after a second look I thought it was probably ok. My only concern there is that DCL didn't give the explanation for it that I thought he would, and instead has just been protesting about being called scummy for it. Which makes me wonder if I was wrong about his motive for it in the first place but I can't see what benefit there would be for a scum-DCL to attract attention to himself in that way. It wasn't as if there seemed to be any danger of the lynch not going through.


From a review of Hiraki the picture I'm getting is that he seems to be looking at everyone and no-one. His vote is currently on acfan but the only reason he has given is that he wants some reads from him, and that was back on Day one. We're still waiting for more substance from acfan but is that the only reason or is there more?

Still not keen on Remembering or Huntress.

"Still not keen"?

Those were the two leading wagons. Still not keen as in I'm not willing to compromise.

This is the second time Hiraki has used inaccurate voting information to back up his words.


It's good to see Rach is posting but again she is implying she hasn't been around when she clearly has.

[Hiraki]

This is the second time Hiraki has used inaccurate voting information to back up his words.

Oh yes--let me correct that because that literally makes so much of difference.

[Huntress]

It made me think that your reply to CDB wasn't the genuine reason so yes, it does make a difference.


@ acfan: I'm still waiting for a reply to my question at the end of post 208.

[Hiraki]

Not genuine? What did you think I was just dicking around?

[petroleumjelly]

Mod: Requesting a Deadline Extension

Mountainous games are difficult enough as-is, and these 10-day deadlines are over-the-top for something that was not announced during sign-ups.

~

1.)

Hikari, please explain (i) the "switch" I made, (ii) your attitude towards deadline extensions, and (iii) why you think mikeburnfire is cautious as scum. Also, are you

really

not understanding havingfitz's posts? What about them is confusing?

2.)

LlamaFluff, please explain your Townread on mikeburnfire. Have you ever

played

with mikeburnfire?

3.)

RachMarie, where do you think mikeburnfire is buddying up to me?

4.)

ac1983fan, who is scum and why?

[LlamaFluff]

2.)

LlamaFluff, please explain your Townread on mikeburnfire. Have you ever

played

with mikeburnfire?

If I have played with him it has been a bit.

For town read though there are the three bigger reasons

1) His twilight comment. Regardless of what some say, thats just not a comment I see coming from scum when they could have literally said anything else. The "oh hey I agree with this mislynch" is not what scum try to cram in there.
2) Scumhunter took a bizzare amount of flack for lurking/flaking. It feels wrong and more likely like it hit town than scum given how long it hung around. One of those situations where a bad case by merits is just more likely to hit town than scum. It can hit scum but its less likely to.
3) He doesnt seem too concerned with staying alive. Right now he is throwing his vote to lurky-ac instead of joining the DCL wagon which he has all the reason to join and is more of a counter to all the flack that he is getting.

I think he is town. His play makes far more sense from that standpoint.

@RM - I dont get the mert-town read all that much, I lean there but its not at all a strong read. PJ is one of those who I more have to read as town through town tells instead of by lack of scumtells. I have no good reason to call him scum but that doesnt mean town from anyone who is good, thats more of how you read VI players.

[Mert]

Advanced warning, I'm going to be V/LA April 4th to 6th inclusive.

!Mod

if there is any extension to the deadline can I therefore request it doesn't fall during the time I'm away if possible? Thanks

[ac1983fan]

@ acfan: I'm still waiting for a reply to my question at the end of post 208.

Woops, my bad.

So you expect us to just believe that your intentions are what you state they are? Because that's kind of a stretch.

Do you have any reason to believe they are otherwise? Looking back through your posts I can't see you mentioning anything about it earlier.

This is mafia; we have no reason to believe anyone is being truthful until we know their flip.

I'm just putting my vote back where it was. I unvoted you to go poke Hiraki for a bit as I said but my reasons for voting for you at the start of today still stand. I still don't like how the hammering thing went down, nor how you've responded to any line of enquiry about that incident including the "but it was deadline" argument and the "it was the

town

thing to do" stuff. Don't worry, you're still my number one

Vote: DCLXVI

Except you didn't provide reasons at the beginning of the day, not until later. And even then, your only strong point against him is that he "quicklynched" when that really was not what happened at all. Well, that and you held onto your RVS vote against him for a while (until RememberingSunday became the apparent lynch for the day), then you randomly switch to Hiraki when a couple of players suggest he's looking scummy (for reasons I still don't fully understand??), then go back to DCL when it's clear that Hiraki doesn't appear to be getting lynched.
What I think this is, is Mert is scum who is either 75% 1) trying to string up town!DCL for tiny "mistakes" that can be made to look anti-town/scummy with the right swing on it or 25% 2) bussing scum!DCL.
VOTE: Mert

4.)

ac1983fan, who is scum and why?

Dunno. I hypothesize that Mert is scum based on my reasoning up there; RachMarie and MBF give me some scumfeels as noted in previous posts.

[greygnarl]

Mod: Requesting a Deadline Extension

Ok I guess. Maybe if there was a bit more activity it wouldn't be that bad. Easter weekend is coming up, so I'll bump the deadline back to Thursday.

[Huntress]

@ Hiraki: No. But when you describe a single vote as a "leading wagon" it makes me think that that may not have been your real reason.

[Hiraki]

Also, just to note, I thought I said this but I'm leaving Petroleum's concerns for another post that I want to concentrate on because it is actually important and a decent posting.

[havingfitz]

Prod dodge....reading up in here today.

[havingfitz]

Ok...well...that was a quick catch up. We obviously have no idea who scum are. 11 players and 7 wagons. Nothing has changed my mind on mbf.

So when is the deadline now? The 4th?

[Mert]

What I think this is, is Mert is scum who is either 75% 1) trying to string up town!DCL for tiny "mistakes" that can be made to look anti-town/scummy with the right swing on it or 25% 2) bussing scum!DCL.[/url].

Well I guess that makes you 100% wrong then?

Again, not stating a reason for voting is not the same as not

having

a reason.

On a separate note, I'd still like to hear more from DCLXVI today that isn't just him defending himself. I asked him to tell us who he thought the scum were in #245 and he's not been heard from since.

!Mod

can we get a prod on DCLXVI please?

[ac1983fan]

Again, not stating a reason for voting is not the same as not

having

a reason.

Yeah, but every vote town makes needs to be for a very particular reason, or else it's not a well-used vote. And if you're going to vote someone you should share your reasoning behind it, otherwise you're not arguing strongly enough for your vote.

[greygnarl]

The guards were becoming more brutal. Two men who were apparently sleeping were being beaten savagely. So far neither had woken.

DCLXVI and mikeburnfire have been prodded.

DEADLINES WILL NOW BE TWO WEEKS.

[DCLXVI]

I confess that the slower pace of this game is making me less motivated to post cause not much is happening, will post content before I go to sleep tonight.

[LlamaFluff]

@mod

- Can we get a votecount? We havent had one in a week now.

[mikeburnfire]

VOTECOUNT

mikeburnfire: havingfitz, huntress, rachmarie
DCLXVI: Mert, LlamaFluff
ac1983fan: Hiraki, mbf
RachMarie: petroleumjelly
Llama: DCLXVI
Huntress: ChannelDelibird
mert: ac1986fan

6 to lynch. Deadline is the 4th. (Sorry Mert.)

Mod endorsed.

[mikeburnfire]

The first five votes on DCL was an RVS wagon. The first three people to vote RS didn't switch from DCL. In fact only acfan and Mert switched directly from DCL to RS and there didn't appear to be much sudden about the wagon as a whole.

Well, it felt like it was, but that's probably because I was speed-reading through it. Still, ac1999fan jumped onto both wagons, and has been throwing his vote around in a similar manner today (while hiding behind others). His post 257 is probably the only legit scum-hunting I've seen him do so far (although it's a pretty good argument against Mert)

So you're both taking what was a minor part of my case against RS and making it look like a major thing, CDB calling it "too framed", and MBF saying I might have been "really excited" about it.

There have been two or three posts now that give me the feeling that MBF is trying to buddy up to me.

Well, yeah, it was a minor detail that I brushed aside because I didn't think it was indicative of scum. And no, disagreeing with arguments against you doesn't mean I'm buddying up to you. What were the other posts that gave you that vibe?

If you think RachMarie is so scummy that you are focusing on whether players are being tied to her, then your suspects at the start of Day Two should have been different. It feels like you saw an opportunity and now you are trying to milk it -- but it also feels like you weren't quite sure how to go about it at first. What I also don't like is that while there are several reasons to suspect RachMarie, your initial reason for suspecting her was solely because of the potential that she could be paired with DCLXVI.

Yeah, kind of. I initially didn't think RachMarie was scummy (because I couldn't get a read on her), but DCLVXI's argument didn't sit right with me. However, if Rach is town, then that argument is shot to hell. Really, the only thing I have on DCLXVI right now is the SELF-CONSCIOUS argument, and his lack of scumhunting. Yes, that's mostly our fault for being so relentless on him, but he should at least have a few suspects. Haven't seen him present a case on anyone today.

Definitely feeling that PJ is probably town, the push on Mike feels genuine, even though I am normally skeptical of FoS because it is often a technique used by scum to appear to be scumhunting without laying down a vote, PJ's overall posts seem more coming from a town mindset than a scum one. So PJ goes in the Town pile.

If you are indeed town, I'd be wary about jumping to such conclusions about PJ. He's experienced, no doubt, and he's playing his cards close to his chest.

you however seem to be latching on to me because you sense an easy lynch

I haven't latched on to you at all, so I don't know where you're getting that idea. I FOS'd you, and thought you might be linked with DCLXVI, but that's about it.

I'm feeling a little better about DCLXVI and ac1988fan, but a bit worse about Delibird (who's gone AWOL), havingfits (tunnel-vision), and Mert. I suggest CDB and DCLXVI move their votes because they aren't going to get Huntress or Llama lynched today.

[petroleumjelly]

FoS: LlamaFluff

Mod: Please prod ChannelDelibird

1.)

LlamaFluff, your reasons for finding mikeburnfire Town are not compelling, and I have a difficult time believing you believe them.

For town read though there are the three bigger reasons

1) His twilight comment. Regardless of what some say, thats just not a comment I see coming from scum when they could have literally said anything else. The "oh hey I agree with this mislynch" is not what scum try to cram in there.
2) Scumhunter took a bizzare amount of flack for lurking/flaking. It feels wrong and more likely like it hit town than scum given how long it hung around. One of those situations where a bad case by merits is just more likely to hit town than scum. It can hit scum but its less likely to.
3) He doesnt seem too concerned with staying alive. Right now he is throwing his vote to lurky-ac instead of joining the DCL wagon which he has all the reason to join and is more of a counter to all the flack that he is getting.

->

a.)

"I was going to vote for X" and X turning out to be a mislynch does not strike me as Town-indicative. This is doubly so if any of one's partners are on the mislynch: lending additional credence to a mislynch makes the people who were actually on the wagon look less suspicious. Also, mikeburnfire had

already

said he would have "no qualms seeing Remembering Sunday go."

->

b.)

Scumhunter did not take a "bizarre" amount of flak for lurking/flaking. This is a game with a fast deadline and he was not posting at all. In fact, about the only person who actually voted for Scumhunter's slot was Remembering Sunday (though it was originally a random vote, it was later kept on seriously), who has now flipped Town. At best, ChannelDelibird once proclaimed him to be a "good vote."

->

c.)

When somebody does not appear to be concerned with staying alive, I do not consider that a Towntell; if it is indicative of anything, it is of the personality and not the underlying alignment (acting nonchalant towards being lynched in general). Furthermore, mikeburnfire has pretty clearly been leaving an option to voting DCLXVI today, even though his vote is currently elsewhere. It where the votes

ultimately

end up that counts when it comes to scumplay.

I can often at least

follow

your arguments for players being Town, but this is incredibly weak coming from you, particularly since they are being applied to an obviously experienced player.

2.)

DCLXVI, this game has been plenty active. Rather than pages of useless spam that this site is more accustomed to,

this

game is fairly compact and dense. If anything, this game should be easier for you to have an opinion and post content about than most games on the site.

Reads, please.

3.)

havingfitz, what is your read of LlamaFluff?

[Huntress]

Still, ac1999fan jumped onto both wagons, and has been throwing his vote around in a similar manner today (while hiding behind others).

Acfan's vote for DCL was the first post of the game. He didn't jump on that wagon because there was no wagon to jump on and according to him his vote on DCL was purely random. What do you mean by "throwing his vote around in a similar manner today"? He has only voted once in a post you described as "legit scum-hunting" and you said he had a "pretty good argument".

What were the other posts that gave you that vibe?

It was mainly that post and also post 215. The tone seemed to say a little bit more than just stating facts.

[mikeburnfire]

What do you mean by "throwing his vote around in a similar manner today"? He has only voted once in a post you described as "legit scum-hunting" and you said he had a "pretty good argument".

Sorry, I confused acfan and Mert together. *Mert* is the one who was on both wagons yesterday and hopped around a lot today, and never really explains his vote well. *Acfan** made a legit argument, although it's the

only

thing he's done today.

It was mainly that post and also post 215. The tone seemed to say a little bit more than just stating facts.

So... the post in which I said I trusted Delibird and Llama more than you... is me buddying up to you.

[havingfitz]

v/LA until Monday morning (for Easter activities)

[mikeburnfire]

I'm still trying to get a read on PJ. He's making well-reasoned arguments and paying attention, but I still don't have a lock.

He has spent most of today doing two things: attacking people who announce their town-reads (usually on me), and asking questions. He's not accusing anyone, and he's not scumhunting. He never says "I find this scummy" or "You seem like scum to me", which directly contrasts with a previous statement he made "

I think we should generally be more aggressive with pursuing scumreads.

"

I want it noted that all his good-looking posts don't do anything if coupled with a non-committal attitude, and he shouldn't be permitted to demand the scumreads of others if he's not willing to provide his own.