Micro 151: Mafia in New-Newbie Land (Game over!)

[Wisdom]

And no, this is not my usual town play, because I

don't have

a usual town play.

[Wisdom]

Active lurking for starters.

lolwut

[Jake from State Farm]

And no, this is not my usual town play, because I

don't have

a usual town play.

But you just said if I knew you I would not be voting you, that implies you are trying to play to your town play.

RE the active lurking, I've covered this already, why are you acting like its news?

[Wisdom]

I'm not trying to play to anything, I don't think I can be meta-read. I said that because usually whoever hasn't played with me before tunnels on me, then they think twice when they meet me again because they were wrong the first time.

[Jake from State Farm]

Well I do tend to tunnel, ask majiffy as I d1 lynched him. Mastin recently said the same thing about me. But I'm also stubborn and when I latch on its hard to change my mind. Nobody is telling me I'm wrong, nobody is giving me a better alternative, not even you. You aren't scumhunting to my standards and your votes/reasons are crap.

[Wisdom]

Have you even looked at anyone else since you voted me?

[Jake from State Farm]

X would be my alternative vote

[Wisdom]

Which you were voting before voting me.
So I am assuming the answer to my question is "no".

[Jake from State Farm]

I was suspicious of elvis but he made some good points so I am less so. Majiffy is starting to worry me because his activity and cares about this game aren't what I expect from him

[borkjerfkin]

He's being useless and obtuse and that's simply not what I'm used to from him.

Did you check if I'm useless and obtuse when I'm scum?

Yes (although it was for something else)

I compared Newbie 1331 (town) to Newbie 1330 (scum). I feel like you were really forthcoming with analysis in 1331, whereas in 1330 you mostly asked open ended questions without judgment, did a lot of IIoA posts, and didn't give all that many reads.

I believe you are doing the latter here.

[Wisdom]

So you compared a single towngame to a single scumgame and you think you can read me?

[borkjerfkin]

Meta isn't my entire beef with you.

You're still not

doing anything useful

in this game.

[Wisdom]

There's nothing more useful I can do on this day than what I've already done.

[borkjerfkin]

That is a silly thing to say.

[Wisdom]

Not really.
It's D1, we have nothing more than gut and minor things to go off.
There have been such things in your posts, in elvis' posts and in Mac's posts, all of which I have pointed out.

[borkjerfkin]

There have been such things in your posts, in elvis' posts and in Mac's posts, all of which I have pointed out.

Ok. I'm going to make one last attempt to work with you here. You initially voted me in #287 for something you believe to be a contradiction. I have two problems with this

1) I explained why I don't think it's a contradiction
2) Even if you DO, you have failed to explain what could possibly be scummy about it. This looked to me like you're just trying to pin whatever you can on me and it's really fucking frustrating

I agree that elvis is losing townyness at a great rate due to her lack of engagement.
I don't think Mac is at all scummy -- I do think the lead into talking about me was more graceful than it looked because he did mention me abruptly changing my mind at one point in the game.

[Mac]

Not really.
It's D1, we have nothing more than gut and minor things to go off.
There have been such things in your posts, in elvis' posts and in Mac's posts, all of which I have pointed out.

Can you please explain the difference between this & 512?

You say Jake's reasons for bork being town are weak, but then her you seem to be supporting the fact that reasoning on d1 is pretty weak.

[Wisdom]

Which is why I didn't further argue with 513.

[borkjerfkin]

If you really believed that reasoning on D1 is inherently weak, you'd never have even made 512.

Also I feel like you're ignoring me.

[Wisdom]

I made 512 because it's bullshit to argue someone is town because they're scumhunting. Like scum don't.

[Mac]

But then you didn't argue when Jake said 513?

[Wisdom]

Because it was fair, it showed that what he meant was he was using his gut.

[borkjerfkin]

You are being dichotomous. If his reasoning is just plain

wrong

(instead of just not well developed) you should have said so at the time.

I don't know how the explanation of "It's day 1" somehow bridges the gap between what you believe to be a fallacious argument and a gut read.

[Wisdom]

Jake stated that he's not so good on D1, and also acknowledged that his argument was indeed weak. That told me that the meaning of his argument was that he was going with his gut - his gut told him that "this guy is scumhunting, must be town", so I didn't continue arguing. If he had answered something like "no, it's not a weak argument, only town scumhunt so he's town" then I would have argued it further.

[borkjerfkin]

That told me that the meaning of his argument was that he was going with his gut - his gut told him that "this guy is scumhunting, must be town"

I don't know that I believe this, and I don't see how you get from "I am using something I perceive as a (admittedly weak) towntell to say bork is town" to "I have a gut feeling about bork". I mean the former is pretty clear-cut inductive reasoning and the tacit implication is that town genuinely scumhunt more often than scum appear to genuinely scumhunt. There is probably a kernel of truth to it but it's extremely playstyle sensitive and therefore probably not terribly useful.

You're being dichotomous in the sense that you initially called the reasoning weak, and after it was pointed out that you believe reasoning on D1 to be commonly weak, you moved the goalposts on exactly how you claim to be interpreting 511/513, because otherwise it just looks like you're mudslinging in 512.

I also have to assume that you have no plan to address #565 since you've addressed everything since that and did not address that.