NY 163: Void Mountain of the Nightless Temple (Game Over)

[Nachomamma8]

Oh well, if you cant beat them, join them.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: The Underachievers and proud of it

KBW's play here, as you can see in the above post, is vastly different from the one you linked to, where he just lurked and called his buddies town.

This was after he tried to tell his buddy a couple times to stop. With everyone else, it was fluid. KBW is not capable of fluid.

How am I scum, underachievers

I mean, why didnt you vote Antilles there? TAM?

Damned if I do, dammed if I don't?

kbw, TAM, Ant...regardless of who I voted you'd of said the same thing. But honestly? I saw someone say something about KBW, I isoed him and that was terrible and wanted that dead. Its the truth but you are aren't going to believe me anyways so w/e.

Who was it and what did they say

[Nachomamma8]

You replaced likely scum though so... yeah.

At least you are pretty readable when scum so thats a good thing. Chances are I can confirm my Klick read within a day or two.

All of this beautiful posturing is going to waste. You might as well just call me town now and be done with it.

[DrippingGoofball]

KBW is not capable of fluid.

With a single game example where he lurked as scum (he didn't lurk here), I think you're inferring way too much.

[Nachomamma8]

I agree. I think my vote is still in a pretty good place though, especially considering RBD's reasoning.

[Voidedmafia]

Votecount 4.02:

bulbazak - DrippingGoofball, zdenek, Arcangel, RainbowDash
Syryana - DCLXVI, Nachomamma, Human Destroyer, BBmolla
DrippingGoofball - Syryana

Not Voting - Titan, Jennifer, Metal Overlord, Bulbazak

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch and to no-lynch.

The Deadline is in (expired on 2013-05-12 22:02:53) or by 9:00 PM on May 12th, 2013.

Bulbazak is V/LA until Tuesday
The metal Sonic head is V/LA from Monday April 29th to May 6th.

[Jennifer]

Hey, all. I'm back... and wow.

Given the flips I would like to go after someone on MM's wagon, but not Bulb because I still think Bulb is town. The last vote count was:

Ms. Marangal- Antilles, Bulbazak, BBmolla, Rainbowdash

We know Antiless was town, and I still have a good feel on Bulb, so that leaves BBmolla or RBD. BBmolla voted both conftown Antiless and MM at one point after replacing in (and me, but I'm not conf to you), and his ISO doesn't provide a lot of content, he's mostly voting and his lack of words/explanations make him hard to read. RBD on the other hand has been very involved and explaining things, and I'm leaning town on her.

Additional scum suspects are Syrana (still - contrary to Syrana's statement, looking at confscum's scumlists/votes can be helpful in finding scum), Zdenek (MM had a strong scum read on him, and I had earlier concerns with the slot. Worth keeping in mind.), MO (Antilles suspected MO, and I still can't shake the scum feel altogether though I go back and forth). Titan (Arthur now?) maybe, but he's fallen into null territory given the other leads.

[Zdenek]

Are you seriously suggesting that voting for town's people is scummy?

[Jennifer]

Oops, meant to vote.

VOTE: BBmolla

@Zdenek No, I am not suggesting that voting for town is inherently scummy. We get it wrong all the time. BUT, it is undeniable that scum want mislynches. And that means, barring a town that is just off the rails, that at least one scum will be voting a townie instead of bussing a buddy. So I think the vote list IS useful in limiting (temporarily at least) the suspect pool and seeing if there is anything else that raises flags.

[Zdenek]

What do you think of the fact that both RBD and TUA changed reads on one an other after day one?

[DrippingGoofball]

oh oh oh WAIT

Everyone, watch this:

=========================

Jennifer

If you think these players include some scum voting a townie for a mislynch and you're even looking for scum on that particular townie wagon...

YOU MUST KNOW THAT THE OTHER TWO WAGONS WERE ON SCUM, right???

[DrippingGoofball]

it is undeniable that scum want mislynches.

And you realize that, if Bulbazak, and Syryana especially, were town, that player on the MM wagon could have hopped on either of those other wagons and gotten that "mislynch" but their wagon stalled.

Instead of looking at 4 players on a townie wagon, you should look at the 2 players whose wagons stalled.

MM was the counterwagon.

[Jennifer]

The trains didn't stall... they were interrupted by the modkills. But for the modkills I think likely either Bulb or Syrana would have been lynched instead, but given we did have two flips it seems worthwhile to step back and look at how the new information fits into everything rather than immediately go back to the status quo of a Bulb or Syrana lynch.

There were 5 people being voted at the time:

DrippingGoofball - Syryana, Titan
Bulbazak - arcangel, DrippingGoofball, zdenek
Syryana - Human Destroyer, Jennifer, DCLXVI, Metal Overlord
Ms. Marangal- Antilles, Bulbazak, BBmolla, Rainbowdash
Jennifer - Ms. Marangal

I know MM is conf town, so clearly no scum were on my 1-man wagon.
So that leaves wagons on DGB, Bulb, Syrana, and MM. I agree that it's possible the remaining scum were on the other 3 wagons and it was all town on MM, but I think we should definitely take a look at the MM wagon first because MM is the only one of the 4 whose alignment we know for sure. The others it gets into whether we feel the train victim is town/scum, how the interplay would be (bus/defend/mislynch, etc.). It's cleaner when we know one piece of the puzzle. If after vetting everyone on her wagon, we feel that they are all town, then that gives us a good chance by PoE and taking the vetted players' reads more to heart to find the remaining scum.

@Zdenek

What do you think of the fact that both RBD and TUA changed reads on one an other after day one?

I don't know... Looking at the ISO TUA did come out of the gate attacking Otter. I don't have a good enough sense of TUA's players' preferences to know if they'd start bussing a buddy out of the gate or would pick a townie to tunnel. But going through Otter's ISO again, they definitely weren't afraid to offer opinions. If you believe Otter that she no longer found TAM scummy, then it makes sense to turn to a new target. I suppose it's possible that they intentionally changed reads on each other because they're buddies, but it feels like a bit of a stretch to me given Otter's vote on TUA reads genuine to me.

[Jennifer]

What are peoples' takes on BBmolla?

[DrippingGoofball]

The trains didn't stall... they were interrupted by the modkills.

The wagons were stalling. The MM wagon was a derailment. I tried to get people off the MM onto the scumwagons. There were a lot of firm scum reads on Antilles and Maranga, and some equally firm (wrong) town reads on Bulbascum and Scumyana.

[DrippingGoofball]

MM is the only one of the 4 whose alignment we know for sure.

I know I'm town for sure, so Titan and Bulbazak were voting a townie, too.

[DrippingGoofball]

TUA FAKE SCUM READS

Keyblade (changed to town mid-wagon)

MS Marangal

OtterHorse(now RD)

Reek(now-DGB)

TAM(then Lurker, now Syryana)
MO
Jennifer

TUA FAKE TOWN READS (aka, TUA's buddies)

Titan
Bulbazak

Antilles

Marangal (this read changed from scum to town Apr 17)

BBmolla (no read on predecessor
Robocopter)

When you're scum in a nightless game it's vital to cast a wide net of suspicion (TUA clearly did that), and I think is definitely scum with Titan and Bulbazak. TAM/Lurker/Syryana was in the margins of the fake scum pile, and wasn't pushed at all like some of the other fake reads.

I believe that in a nightless game, bus'ing your weak scumbuddy for towncred on Day 1 is a great idea.

Therefore all three remaining scums may be in TUA's fake town list. I could guarantee that there are two scums in there minimum.

Titan, Bulbazak, BBmolla.

Small chance that Syryana is town. BBmolla, well, that might be interesting.

However, the common name that comes up in all analyses that I look at is

BULBAZAK

.

Please, humor me, let's lynch Bulbazak.

[Bulbazak]

Antilles and Ms. Marangal, Vanila Townies turned Neutral Survivors, "Ritually cleansed" (aka modkilled) Day 3.

TOWNIES. The both of them.

DID I NOT SAY SO?

Translation: "Hey everyone, I correctly called 2 people town and am not so subtly reminding you! Please give me all the town cred, because scum can't possibly know anyone's alignment."

@AA9: What is your current reason for voting me? I rebutted your last line of reasoning, which you never responded back to, so is this some really strange form of OMGUS, or do you have actual legitimate reasons that couldn't be resolved by actually reading the game?

@Nacho: Why did you vote me and then in the space of 4 posts immediately unvote me? You seem to have a very solid town read on me, but I've been V/LA the entire time you've been posting in the game, so there was nothing I could have said or done to dramatically change your read.

I'm about 95% sure that DGB isn't scum because she was a counterwagon to scum yesterday, and keyblade voted her immediately before he voted underachievers. Meaning that your case *probably* won't convince me unless it's fucking amazing, and you should save your time putting cases on more pragmatic lynches.

First, trying to use KBW's interactions as a way to judge alignments is pretty ridiculous. He really didn't post much, so there's no guarantee that those tells can be trusted. You'd be much better off going through TUA's ISO, as there's much more to work with.

Second, the case on DGB:

As I've explained, I hated her self-vote d1. Every reason she has given for it is false. A simple look at the vote count at the time could tell you that:

Votecount 1.23:

Metal Overlord - Bulbazak, zdenek, Underachivers
TheLurker - ms. marangal
Underachivers - Robocopter, Klick, Human Destroyer, keybladewielder, Jennifer, DrippingGoofball, Otterhorse (L-2)
keybladewielder - Antilles, RachMarie, Titan, TheLurker

Not Voting - Metal Overlord, Arcangel

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch and to no-lynch.

The Deadline is in (expired on 2013-04-06 22:45:22) or by 9:45 PM on April 6th, 2013.

The Mastin2 head of The Underarchivers is V/LA.

The TUA wagon was at L-2, and wasn't diminishing, so that's out. She tried to say later that she was trying to derail the MO wagon, but as you can see, that was not even viable, and there was no way that was going to happen. So that's disproven. The only thing that her self-vote served to do was diminish and draw attention away from the TUA wagon, which is funny, since she claimed to have wanted them lynched.

This little beauty needs to be seen to believed. Including the original posts, along with my responses:

I dared Bulbazak to vote me with a promise to vote myself if he did. At the moment that I was relentlessly pursuing the lynch of his buddy TUA, he pounces and takes me on that promise.

Why is bulbazak scum?

Iso my posts from yesterday, it's all there.

Which is funny, because when I asked you why as well, you never answered.

I dared Bulbazak to vote me with a promise to vote myself if he did. At the moment that I was relentlessly pursuing the lynch of his buddy TUA, he pounces and takes me on that promise.

TUA, if you switch to DGB, I will too.

TUA, if you switch to DGB, I will too.

So will I.

TUA, if you switch to DGB, I will too.

this is a good idea.

vote:DGB

Why are you not voting DGB, Bulb?

Waiting for reactions from our new players. I have no idea which way they're going to align themselves, and Antilles is still my preferred lynch. Regardless, I'll probably be crashing soon (caffeine...) and check back up on things when I wake. I expect to have my permanent vote down by 7pm, so if I don't see a move toward Antilles, I'll set my vote sometime between those times.

Nope. Good try though. I saw the clock inching towards deadline with my preferred lynch with zero traction, so I offered to switch to another strong scumread if TUA would join, since he had been asking people to vote without voting himself. Your offer came second, and was based off of my offer to TUA. I actually thought I was going to be gone from 7pm until the deadline, which was why I wanted my permanent vote down. It turns out that my schedule cleared up last minute.

I'll be honest, I understood almost nothing of this post.

DGB Bulbazak is town. Push Titan instead and I'll be fine.

He's really not town, TUA was trying to get him on board a particular lynch in broad daylight.

Did I understand the OP that the scum doesn't have daytalk? If I read that right, TUA was trying to clue Bulbazak into a lynch scheme.

I'll be honest, I understood almost nothing of this post.

DGB Bulbazak is town. Push Titan instead and I'll be fine.

He's really not town, TUA was trying to get him on board a particular lynch in broad daylight.

Did I understand the OP that the scum doesn't have daytalk? If I read that right, TUA was trying to clue Bulbazak into a lynch scheme.

Are you talking about when I was trying to get a townread of mine to jump on the wagon of a scumread? Yes, because that is totally TUA driving a mislynch and getting his buddy onboard.

TUA, if you switch to DGB, I will too.

this is a good idea.

vote:DGB

Why are you not voting DGB, Bulb?

This is Bulbascum letting his buddy TUA know that if TUA switches his vote to a mislynch, Bulbascum will go for the kill, too.

TUA immediately agrees that this is a great idea! But Bulbascum doesn't vote right away and TUA gets impatient.

Here below is the vote count at the time of the conversation:

DrippingGoofball

- Titan, RachMarie
Antilles - Rainbowdash, Bulbazak
Ms Marangal - BBmolla, Antilles, Jennifer
Jennifer - Ms. Marangal, Underachivers

Underachivers

-

DrippingGoofball

, Human Destroyer, zdenek

After the proposed action, the vote count would be:

DrippingGoofball

- Titan, RachMarie, Bulbazak, Underachievers
Antilles - Rainbowdash,

Bulbazak

Ms Marangal - BBmolla, Antilles, Jennifer
Jennifer - Ms. Marangal,

Underachivers

Underachivers

-

DrippingGoofball

, Human Destroyer, zdenek

...and giving the mislynch one more vote than the scumwagon.

Eventually, Bulbazak votes me, but only after letting Jennifer-town sneak on the wagon, maybe to avoid looking like a scum voting block:

DrippingGoofball - Titan, DCLXVI, Underachivers, Jennifer, Bulbazak
Antilles - Rainbowdash
Ms Marangal - Antilles
Jennifer - Ms. Marangal
Underachivers - DrippingGoofball, Human Destroyer, zdenek, BBmolla

TUA, if you switch to DGB, I will too.

this is a good idea.

vote:DGB

Why are you not voting DGB, Bulb?

This is Bulbascum letting his buddy TUA know that if TUA switches his vote to a mislynch, Bulbascum will go for the kill, too.

I like how you switched from TUA running the show to me, because this case is not fabricated at all.

Going to do something I hate, which is write inside the quote, but it's necessary to show some of the utter stupidity here:

Here below is the vote count at the time of the conversation:

Scumread #2

DrippingGoofball

- Titan, RachMarie

Scumread #1

Antilles - Rainbowdash, Bulbazak
Ms Marangal - BBmolla, Antilles, Jennifer
Jennifer - Ms. Marangal, Underachivers

Underachivers

-

DrippingGoofball

, Human Destroyer, zdenek

After the proposed action, the vote count would be:

Scumread #2

DrippingGoofball

- Titan, RachMarie, Bulbazak, Underachievers

Scumread #1

:right:Antilles - Rainbowdash,

Bulbazak

Ms Marangal - BBmolla, Antilles, Jennifer
Jennifer - Ms. Marangal,

Underachivers

Underachivers

-

DrippingGoofball

, Human Destroyer, zdenek

...and giving the mislynch one more vote than the scumwagon.

Oh looky there, one of the wagons on one of my scumreads is magically viable. Surely it must be evil scum plotting.

Eventually, Bulbazak votes me, but only after letting Jennifer-town sneak on the wagon, maybe to avoid looking like a scum voting block:

The caffeine that's flooding Bulba's system finally decides to betray him, and he crashes into his bed a la #1463. He wakes up 4 hrs. later, catches up, and then finally places his vote.

DrippingGoofball - Titan, DCLXVI, Underachivers, Jennifer, Bulbazak
Antilles - Rainbowdash
Ms Marangal - Antilles
Jennifer - Ms. Marangal
Underachivers - DrippingGoofball, Human Destroyer, zdenek, BBmolla

DGB couldn't get the simple facts of the game right in her rush to mislynch me and repeatedly contradicted herself, which led to me constantly correcting her. She started with her leading the DGB switch, to TUA, and finally getting it right with me. My reasoning has never changed. The Antilles wagon wasn't gaining any traction, the deadline was drawing nearer, and I saw an opportunity to create a viable wagon on a scumread. So I took it, after pausing to see what the new replacements would do, as well as taking a nap (Caffeine crash). It's not that hard to understand, as I explained my motives pretty clearly at the time as well.

Also add that DGB is the most anti-town player in this game. She's using AtE and WIFOM like it's going out of style, and like Antilles, she never addresses any point against her or make an adequate case against anyone. It's all accusation with little substance and attempts to discredit town players, and sadly, it appears as if the town is falling for it.

Honestly Nacho, I can't see any of DGB's actions coming from town. Saying that she is town, because KBW voted for her once is not going to cut it.

@BBMolla:

@BBMolla: In your opinion, is it better to stay on this wagon and try to unify the town or to go back to my stronger scumread? Both are equally as viable, so I don't care either way. I just want to do what is best in this situation.

I'm not the one to ask here. As you can see my philosophy is sit back and vote someone who has a wagon who I remotely feel will flip scum.

Then what was with the push to get town unified by asking for reads and looking for a common scum read? Speaking of which, I don't believe you've ever given your reads. What are they?

I still want an answer.

KBW is not capable of fluid.

With a single game example where he lurked as scum (he didn't lurk here)

What are peoples' takes on BBmolla?

I'll let you know after he responds to my question.

Vote Dripping Goofballs

In the meantime, I'm going to go examine my wagons from d3 and today. I can probably find at least one of DGB's partners somewhere on there.

[BBmolla]

I still want an answer.

1. Reek (hydra of Channeldelibird and Nexus) DrippingGoofball - Town
2. Human destroyer - Town
4. Titan (hydra of Ser Arthut Dayne and Tammy - Town
6. RachMarie DLCXVI - Eh
7. The Acting Method TheLurker syryana - Scum
8. BT zdenek - Town
9. Bulbazak - Maybe Town
10. Serrapaladin Jennifer - Eh
13. Robocopter87 BBmolla - Town
14. Klick Nachomamma8 - Maybe Town
15. Metal Overlord (hydra of metal sonic and kx) - Eh
16. Otterhorse (hydra of zoraster and Rainbowdash) RainbowDash - Town
17. Arcangel9 - Maybe Town

[BBmolla]

I still want an answer.

1. Reek (hydra of Channeldelibird and Nexus) DrippingGoofball - Town
2. Human destroyer - Town
4. Titan (hydra of Ser Arthut Dayne and Tammy - Town

6. RachMarie DLCXVI - Eh

7. The Acting Method TheLurker syryana - Scum

8. BT zdenek - Town
9. Bulbazak - Maybe Town

10. Serrapaladin Jennifer - Eh

13. Robocopter87 BBmolla - Town
14. Klick Nachomamma8 - Maybe Town

15. Metal Overlord (hydra of metal sonic and kx) - Eh

16. Otterhorse (hydra of zoraster and Rainbowdash) RainbowDash - Town
17. Arcangel9 - Maybe Town

Color coded

[BBmolla]

Please, humor me, let's lynch Bulbazak.

If we lynch Bulbazak can I be town

[BBmolla]

DGB if you help me lynch Syryana I'll help you lynch Bulb.

[BBmolla]

Jen's cute case against me makes her more likely town imo

[Bulbazak]

@BBMolla: In your opinion, is it better to stay on this wagon and try to unify the town or to go back to my stronger scumread? Both are equally as viable, so I don't care either way. I just want to do what is best in this situation.

I'm not the one to ask here. As you can see my philosophy is sit back and vote someone who has a wagon who I remotely feel will flip scum.

Then what was with the push to get town unified by asking for reads and looking for a common scum read?

[BBmolla]

@BBMolla: In your opinion, is it better to stay on this wagon and try to unify the town or to go back to my stronger scumread? Both are equally as viable, so I don't care either way. I just want to do what is best in this situation.

I'm not the one to ask here. As you can see my philosophy is sit back and vote someone who has a wagon who I remotely feel will flip scum.

Then what was with the push to get town unified by asking for reads and looking for a common scum read?

I was sick of walls and wanted some flips.

Also I didn't realize that there were literally no common scum reads.

[Voidedmafia]

Votecount 4.03:

bulbazak - DrippingGoofball, zdenek, Arcangel, RainbowDash
Syryana - DCLXVI, Nachomamma, Human Destroyer, BBmolla
DrippingGoofball - Syryana, Bulbazak
BBmolla - Jennifer

Not Voting - Titan, Metal Overlord

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch and to no-lynch.

The Deadline is in (expired on 2013-05-12 22:02:53) or by 9:00 PM on May 12th, 2013.

The metal Sonic head is V/LA from Monday April 29th to May 6th.
Ser Arthur Dayne is V/LA until May 15th. Since that's a bit too long of a V/LA, he is being replaced.