Open 490: Donner Party Mafia (Game Over)

[goodmorning]

Cool, I was annoyed there for a second.

BACK TO BULGARIA

[Zaicon]

Vote Count 3.1

Otolia (1)

: Malakittens

No Vote (5)

: Bulbazak, fferyllt, goodmorning, Otolia, Syryana

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch!

Deadline is Monday, May 13 at 2:00pm CDT, which is in (expired on 2013-05-13 14:00:00).

[Bulbazak]

Going to do site-wide catchup and decided to start here:

Personally, I don't know how I feel about Otolia's recent posts. His message to town at the end of d2 read as sincere, but some of the posts afterward seem to contradict it. If we had a vig, Otolia should have been the kill last night to spare town the chance of mislynching a VT. The fact that no kill occured makes me think the vig is dead, and that Sven was right about CD being the vig. I'm weary about Otolia calling it a gambit. I could understand a VT putting themself on the line, and giving the town the instructions they did. After all, that's in the town's best interest. I can also see the VT the next day trying to survive longer and scumhunt, because they would know that they are town and they're lynch would not be in the town's best interest. However, I can't see them calling it a gambit and shrugging it off as such. It does not compute.

The one thing I will not consider as a reason to lynch, though, is Otolia's place on the wagon. He was vocal about Sven being scum, and he was one of the early adopters of the wagon, so it checks out. I am, however, suspicious about Morning's place on the wagon. She really didn't give very good reasons for voting Sven in the first place (Her reason was contradictions. It was not a new reason, and it gave her the perfect opportunity to sheep.), and she sat on that wagon for the rest of the day without saying much of anything about it (Again, she sheeped someone else's reasoning, so nothing original.). Add that to my points yesterday, and she is the only scumread I'm certain of.

Vote Goodmorning

I did not like Syryana's hammer at all. His explanation better be really good.

[Malakittens]

@Bulba:

Why didn't you mention Fery's place on the wagon? Her vote is suspect at all costs and if I wasn't voting Oto - I'd be voting her if I had a double vote. >.>

Fery's vote post is here.
There was no reason for her vote at all during that post.

After Day 3 opened.Here was her reasons for voting Sven.
I thought it looked like a counter claim.

Here is where Oto specially stated it wasn't a counter-claim.

______

My top choices for scum/SK currently are:

Oto & Fery.

______

There was 7 minutes between her L-3 and Syr's hammer. She was around in the thread and Oto specially stated it wasn't a counter-claim. So she should have un-voted there. She came back after the hammer to reply to Oto's 'wtf' post.

[fferyllt]

visible in the thread and caught up aren't the same thing unfortunately. At the time I posted my vote I thought it was a counter claim. I read oto's later post that made it clear it wasn't a counter claim but by the time I'd gotten all that processed, Syr had already hammered.

I am worried that town is going to lose off the back of that bandwagon. I doubt my explanations will help.

Oto's explanation resonates for me. I doubt I'll vote him today. Not sure what I will do with my vote atm. I want to read what Syr has to say.

[fferyllt]

also, in the future when I get shit for being jittery about a bandwagon, this game will be my exhibit A that it's not just derpiness that leads to quicklynches.

[Bulbazak]

Why didn't you mention Fery's place on the wagon?

I was covering the biggest things that jumped out at me. Ffery's vote is suspect, just like every vote on that wagon after Sven claimed, but a quickhammer is way more suspect than someone who put him at L-2. I have 3 other suspects that I believe deserve more attention than her atm. If you believe otherwise, feel free to convince me.

[Syryana]

Elephant in the room. The hammer. Reasons for hammering:

• Reason #1: Svenskt's "I never read my role PM" derp(gross oversimplification, deal with it) confirmed him as scum to me. Only reason I unvoted him in the first place was his RB claim and I figured him not knowing his own power was a sure tell he was a liar.
  
• Reason #2: I already had a scumread on the slot. He replaced MeowMix, who I had an early (and erroneous) scumread on from damn near gamestart. In hindsight, I see why he wasn't interested in attracting attention to himself.

Things I'm relatively sure of: Mala is mafia. GM (possibly fery, but leaning GM) is her partner. Otolia is the SK.

Why is Mala mafia, you ask? Excellent question.

Please note you know how I play as scum. If he 'was' my partner - I'd would have hopped on the wagon right away. Nice try

Anyways - I believe I'm dead tonight unless a miracle happens. Lynch Ot tom

Self-meta. Kill it with fire. Onward.

I'm going to start off saying FoS: to Syr and Fery. All for that quick wagon onto Sven D2. I'm sure at least one of you is scum or SK. Either GM or Oto are another possible SK or scum. So neither of them are clear in my books, so FoS for you too even though.. I already had one on you.

VOTE: Oto

I don't like how that lynch on Sven was orchestrated and how it happened. Sven was right it was way to quick and you started to throw blame on anyone but you. Also to me that didn't seem like a slip.

Very wide net of suspicion. Doesn't like me or fery for quicklynch, doesn't like GM or Oto because... no idea. A quick look at MalaISO reveals she hasn't suspected GM since #447 and even then it was "gut and playing differently". Keep note of this for my analysis later.

It didn't look like a counter claim.

It looked like confirmation bias.

I don't think Oto put much thought into it how Sven could have accidentally missed that part

in regards to not knowing the SK had a 1 shot RB immunity. He saw what looked like a slip and went full head on heels to it. What did it cost us? a PR being lynched where we could have lynched scum instead.

I think he is SK who used confirmation bias on Sven. Town doesn't want to kill PR's as they are more helpful alive then dead.

Even with this setup - Pr's alive towards endgame are bad, but Day 2 isn't at all near endgame. I think he is SK who pushed for a PR death. I'm also calling his little ATE bluff - if Sven flips town - Vig me tonight/lynch me Day 3.

These posts made me highly suspicious. If I've gotten anything out of playing with Otolia this game, it's that he puts thought into

everything

. His posts are polished until they gleam, his cases are meticulously constructed and he doesn't even vote until a votecount is posted. And here we have Mala, claiming he's the SK because he didn't put much thought into Svenkst's motivations? I think not. Furthermore, let's assume for a moment that Otolia is the SK. Why would the oh-so-cautious Otolia push for a PR lynch, particularly as SK? The SK cares much less about the town PRs than scum do, since he's immune to each once. Why would he stick out his neck for the express purpose of lynching a PR, particularly in view of the fact the flip would incriminate him? It would be an entirely better strategy to wait and get a mislynch on someone else (getting a goon would suit the SK better) and then let the Mafia NK Svenkst (or even NK Svenkst himself). Mala's description of Otolia's actions makes no sense. It sounds more to me like Mala is convinced Otolia is the SK and is trying to twist events in any way possible to fit him into that mold. What's her motivation for doing so?

Here's what I think. I think Mala targeted Otolia last night, nothing happened. She knows he's the SK, but doesn't want to out herself as scum. She has to get rid of him to win at all costs.

Why isn't Mala the vig? I thought of that, took me a bit to wrap my head round it. Mala isn't the vig because she isn't thinking with a town mentality. She's been advocating the death of the SK for a long time now. From a town mindset that makes no sense, particularly now. Assuming that the SK and both mafia are still alive, we're in LyLo, and if we lynch the SK right this second, mafia wins the game. Mala's not stupid. If her wincon was to lynch the mafia/sk, she wouldn't be advocating the lynch of the SK right now.

VOTE: Malakittens

Now, why is her partner GM or fery? Mala, IME, likes to bus her partners at LyLo. The last time I saw her do it, she listed her partner as one of a pair but pursued the scummiest townie. In this instance, she only has one partner instead of two, so I think she's being cautious and offering up Otolia and fery over her real partner, goodmorning. I say this because, of the two, she has fewer interactions with, but a stronger scumread on, goodmorning over fery. If you go look back at the interactions between GM and Mala, especially after reading this post, the interactions between them look forced as hell. As an example, go look at #298 and #302. I'm not 100% certain on the Mala/GM partnership, but I am sure Mala's scum.

[fferyllt]

Syr I'm happy with you as town. You scare me occasionally because if I were scum (or SK for that matter) you'd probably be dead, but I can't see your posts not coming from a town place.

In your scenario, you and bulbuzak are town. Town plus the SK pretty much have to vote together today. There is a chance that a scum player winds up bussed, but I'm not counting on it. You and bulbuzak have to get on the same wagon.

[Syryana]

Syr I'm happy with you as town. You scare me occasionally because if I were scum (or SK for that matter) you'd probably be dead, but I can't see your posts not coming from a town place.

What are you trying to say here?

And yes, I think Bulba is town. I also think you are town, moreso than GM anyways.

[fferyllt]

Syr I'm happy with you as town. You scare me occasionally because if I were scum (or SK for that matter) you'd probably be dead, but I can't see your posts not coming from a town place.

What are you trying to say here?

And yes, I think Bulba is town. I also think you are town, moreso than GM anyways.

I'm saying that I'll vote with you two because I think you re right, and I think you are town. And we have to count on the SK joining, while keeping in mind that we could wind up with a scum bus instead.

[Syryana]

I was asking what you meant about me scaring you and that I'd be dead if you were an anti town role.

[fferyllt]

I was asking what you meant about me scaring you and that I'd be dead if you were an anti town role.

I'm saying that you would have been a priority kill if I weren't town. The day 1 kills were confusing as fuck. But last night, I *think* the DCL kill was meant to focus attention on you and me, since he was the L-1 vote. havingfitz, though, I dunno. I've never played with him before and I don't know if he'd be considered more likely to organize town than the other remaining town players.

[Malakittens]

Funny.

I self meta as both alignments. In regards to that - it's a null tell. You can't pin me scummy for it.

Secondly, I have been advocating for the SK death yes, but that's because last setup I didn't go after the SK and it fakeclaimed (vig) and lived to see endgame against mafia. I'm not allowing that mistake to happen again (at least until I die).

Syrana - Both you and Oto didn't like MeowMix. So, yes your votes were justified by that overlap, but what Sven said the 'wait and see' game was a perfectly reasonable thing to do. You risked killing off a PR - as I stated if Sven survived longer then a lynch on him was justified. I don't believe killing off a PR early as Day 2 is in a town mindset.

He may have thought of everything, but I don't feel he thought well into it. I think what he did wasn't in a town mindset. I think the lynch on Sven was fast paced and I believe scum ARE on it. Do I know who those scum are? No, but do I believe I have an idea? Yes.

You are also forgetting that CD could have been scum who's kill got blocked instead of being the vig.

You are also not putting into the fact Oto could be SK and the vig is still alive last night and they tried shooting Oto and the kill failed because of the immunity. Has any of this crossed your mind? I don't think so.

_____

You are also forgetting that I could be town just going after someone I believe is scum. You flopped hardcore on your read on me and that's pretty damn close to that I did as scum a while back in another game and I was able to survive. You kept calling me town throughout the prior days and now you shift when it's in your best interest.

For the record;

I do believe GM's vote is suspect, but I don't believe he's high on my list of being scum. Please tell me where you are getting I'm 'busing' GM because you are mistaken.

_____

The only thing that makes me weary of a SK or even a scum Oto is how he locked himself into the VT. That's the ONLY thing that makes me think he's possibly town out of everything because scum HATE, HATE being locked into a claim. Especially, when the time is right he could fake claim and actually win.

_____

Predit:

The DC kill could have also been made to focus attention on both GM or I. The same with the Fitz kill because Fitz was on my ass towards the end of Day 2. Or DC *could* have been a vig kill. Or guys what happens if all three; vig, SK & scum are alive and the kills overlapped yet again.

We aren't even sure if CD was mafia. We could have a solo mafia living amongst us.

The possibilities here are endlesss.

[Malakittens]

Here's what I think. I think Mala targeted Otolia last night, nothing happened. She knows he's the SK, but doesn't want to out herself as scum. She has to get rid of him to win at all costs.

You're assuming the vig is still alive then because SK = 1 kill, scum = 1 kill and the vig = 1 kill.
If I was scum who targeted SK-Oto then you would have seen 2 kills.

Now you are assuming the vig is still alive. If the vig was still alive who would they have killed? DC or Fitz?

____

&&&

I just had a thought on something.

UNVOTE: Oto

for the time being.

At least until I figure this thought out by reading ISO's.

[Malakittens]

So we don't know alignment of anyone;

We don't know if CD / USC was town or mafia. We clearly know neither were SK because if either were SK either or would have been living during Day 2.

^ CD / USC = Town or Mafia.

Fitz or DC = SK, Town or Mafia.

They could be either of the three.

__________

Now, if I take each kill and break it up into a pattern.

CD's main targets during Day 1 were GM and Oto.

USC didn't really have any solid reads. He did go after DC to an extent.

Fitz - Towards the end made a slight comment towards Syr, but we don't know anything of it because he's dead, but where he also voted me he had you (Syr) also listed towards scum. So Fitz theoretically could have been a kill to reduce a threat to either of us.

DC - Went after GM, Syr and I. Those were his top 3 suspects.

Now, we aren't sure if any of these players are mafia, sk or town. We already eliminated that CD/USC couldn't be an SK.

[Bulbazak]

I had a big response to Syryana, but I think Mala has it pretty well covered. My question to Syryana is this: How can you be certain that all 3 cannibal factions are still in play? You've gone to lengths to explain the 2 kills last night, but you are not bothering to explain why there were 2 kills n1. You are relying on a very certain setup and series of events and are not considering any other possibility (of which Mala offered several). It seems rather shaky to me.

I'm good with a Morning or Syryana lynch, as I feel they're the most likely to flip scum. Otolia wouldn't be bad either, but I still don't think he's the best lynch for today. I have a strong town read on Mala, so that's not happening. Ffery is in the null section atm, so we'll wait and see with her. Personally, I'd like to lynch my biggest scum read, which it seems several people share.

Questions? Comments? OMGUS?

[Syryana]

Funny.

I self meta as both alignments. In regards to that - it's a null tell. You can't pin me scummy for it.

I don't like self meta. Period.

Secondly, I have been advocating for the SK death yes, but that's because last setup I didn't go after the SK and it fakeclaimed (vig) and lived to see endgame against mafia. I'm not allowing that mistake to happen again (at least until I die).

Going after the SK regardless of whether or not it's good for town is blatantly anti-town.

Syrana - Both you and Oto didn't like MeowMix. So, yes your votes were justified by that overlap, but what Sven said the 'wait and see' game was a perfectly reasonable thing to do. You risked killing off a PR - as I stated if Sven survived longer then a lynch on him was justified. I don't believe killing off a PR early as Day 2 is in a town mindset.

Yes, killing off a PR is a bad thing. However, in my prior post, I explained why I hammered.

He may have thought of everything, but I don't feel he thought well into it. I think what he did wasn't in a town mindset. I think the lynch on Sven was fast paced and I believe scum ARE on it. Do I know who those scum are? No, but do I believe I have an idea? Yes.

You are also forgetting that CD could have been scum who's kill got blocked instead of being the vig.

You are also not putting into the fact Oto could be SK and the vig is still alive last night and they tried shooting Oto and the kill failed because of the immunity. Has any of this crossed your mind? I don't think so.

Of course scum was on the wagon: Otolia the SK and your partner goodmorning. CD not only could have been scum who got blocked, but could also be a townie who got RB'd. The vig might not necessarily have shot on N1. Still 2 kills. Furthermore, the vig is dead. If the vig were not dead, they would have claimed by now to give us some kind of flip information. If we assume for the moment the vig targeted Otolia and got canceled, then that means the SK/Mafia killed fitz and DCL. Either kill makes sense coming from you; DCL in particular.

You are also forgetting that I could be town just going after someone I believe is scum. You flopped hardcore on your read on me and that's pretty damn close to that I did as scum a while back in another game and I was able to survive. You kept calling me town throughout the prior days and now you shift when it's in your best interest.

For the record;

I do believe GM's vote is suspect, but I don't believe he's high on my list of being scum. Please tell me where you are getting I'm 'busing' GM because you are mistaken.

Flopped hardcore on my read on you? I don't recall ever reading you as town. I said I liked one of your posts. Misrep me moar pl0x. And you're not town going after your scumread. I already said why.

Your bus on GM is nearly identical to your bus on DCL in Open 483. You mention suspicions on that person, then backburner them as you pursue the "stronger" read. It's not a traditional "bus and bus hard", but it is a bus nevertheless.

The only thing that makes me weary of a SK or even a scum Oto is how he locked himself into the VT. That's the ONLY thing that makes me think he's possibly town out of everything because scum HATE, HATE being locked into a claim. Especially, when the time is right he could fake claim and actually win.

If he is the SK, he has two kills to his name. Locking himself into the VT claim is irrelevant if one of those two kills is the dietician.

The DC kill could have also been made to focus attention on both GM or I. The same with the Fitz kill because Fitz was on my ass towards the end of Day 2. Or DC *could* have been a vig kill. Or guys what happens if all three; vig, SK & scum are alive and the kills overlapped yet again.

We aren't even sure if CD was mafia. We could have a solo mafia living amongst us.

The possibilities here are endlesss.

Indeed they are. However, it is best to assume the worst; i.e. there are still 2 mafia and 1 SK alive. If that is true, this is LyLo. Going after the SK right now loses the game in that case.

Pedit@Bulba: I don't know whether all three cannibals are still in play. I am however assuming the scum cannibals at least are. It would be foolish to assume otherwise. I also answered why the vig is no longer alive and why there were only two kills N1.

[Malakittens]

Spoiler:

Funny.

I self meta as both alignments. In regards to that - it's a null tell. You can't pin me scummy for it.

I don't like self meta. Period.

Secondly, I have been advocating for the SK death yes, but that's because last setup I didn't go after the SK and it fakeclaimed (vig) and lived to see endgame against mafia. I'm not allowing that mistake to happen again (at least until I die).

Going after the SK regardless of whether or not it's good for town is blatantly anti-town.

Syrana - Both you and Oto didn't like MeowMix. So, yes your votes were justified by that overlap, but what Sven said the 'wait and see' game was a perfectly reasonable thing to do. You risked killing off a PR - as I stated if Sven survived longer then a lynch on him was justified. I don't believe killing off a PR early as Day 2 is in a town mindset.

Yes, killing off a PR is a bad thing. However, in my prior post, I explained why I hammered.

He may have thought of everything, but I don't feel he thought well into it. I think what he did wasn't in a town mindset. I think the lynch on Sven was fast paced and I believe scum ARE on it. Do I know who those scum are? No, but do I believe I have an idea? Yes.

You are also forgetting that CD could have been scum who's kill got blocked instead of being the vig.

You are also not putting into the fact Oto could be SK and the vig is still alive last night and they tried shooting Oto and the kill failed because of the immunity. Has any of this crossed your mind? I don't think so.

Of course scum was on the wagon: Otolia the SK and your partner goodmorning. CD not only could have been scum who got blocked, but could also be a townie who got RB'd. The vig might not necessarily have shot on N1. Still 2 kills. Furthermore, the vig is dead. If the vig were not dead, they would have claimed by now to give us some kind of flip information. If we assume for the moment the vig targeted Otolia and got canceled, then that means the SK/Mafia killed fitz and DCL. Either kill makes sense coming from you; DCL in particular.

You are also forgetting that I could be town just going after someone I believe is scum. You flopped hardcore on your read on me and that's pretty damn close to that I did as scum a while back in another game and I was able to survive. You kept calling me town throughout the prior days and now you shift when it's in your best interest.

For the record;

I do believe GM's vote is suspect, but I don't believe he's high on my list of being scum. Please tell me where you are getting I'm 'busing' GM because you are mistaken.

Flopped hardcore on my read on you? I don't recall ever reading you as town. I said I liked one of your posts. Misrep me moar pl0x. And you're not town going after your scumread. I already said why.

Your bus on GM is nearly identical to your bus on DCL in Open 483. You mention suspicions on that person, then backburner them as you pursue the "stronger" read. It's not a traditional "bus and bus hard", but it is a bus nevertheless.

The only thing that makes me weary of a SK or even a scum Oto is how he locked himself into the VT. That's the ONLY thing that makes me think he's possibly town out of everything because scum HATE, HATE being locked into a claim. Especially, when the time is right he could fake claim and actually win.

If he is the SK, he has two kills to his name. Locking himself into the VT claim is irrelevant if one of those two kills is the dietician.

The DC kill could have also been made to focus attention on both GM or I. The same with the Fitz kill because Fitz was on my ass towards the end of Day 2. Or DC *could* have been a vig kill. Or guys what happens if all three; vig, SK & scum are alive and the kills overlapped yet again.

We aren't even sure if CD was mafia. We could have a solo mafia living amongst us.

The possibilities here are endlesss.

Indeed they are. However, it is best to assume the worst; i.e. there are still 2 mafia and 1 SK alive. If that is true, this is LyLo. Going after the SK right now loses the game in that case.

Pedit@Bulba: I don't know whether all three cannibals are still in play. I am however assuming the scum cannibals at least are. It would be foolish to assume otherwise. I also answered why the vig is no longer alive and why there were only two kills N1.

I brought up self-meta during Switch. You certainly didn't have a problem there.
I brought it up in post 66. You didn't make any glance towards it.

I have invalidated that part of your case on me.

Next step:

I don't see how going after the SK is anti-town. SK is still scum after all and is still has a wincondition opposite of town. It's still a threat to town and needs to be eliminated in order for town to win.

Moving on:

Yes, because you had prior suspicion on MeowMix who was Sven's original slot owner. Your hammer vote is opportunistic as fuck.

Let's keep going:

You believed Oto was scum Day 1 / 2 yet instead of pushing it you crept into the shadows and hammered voted Sven. Ironically, Oto, whom you felt was scum not SK was on the Sven wagon. Imo, I wouldn't have voted with someone I believed to be scum at least not someone on your high scum list. You saw a perfect way to hammer - you did it - now you are casting blame on everyone else, but yourself. I already stated that CD could have been town who got RB'd, but I was stating other scenarios.

The vig should not claim if they are still alive because they are still useful in this day of age.

I could see you killing DC in order to pin it on me.

Just keep swimming:

Alright, I was under the impression you had a town read on me. I'm sorta right, but sorta wrong. You didn't directly say "I think Mala is town", but surely implied it heavily while talking to Fery.

Spoiler:

Wall! I'll break it apart and give specific reasoning in a bit, but here's me thoughts in general.

I'd swap fitz and Mala.

Otolia I'd put in the Unsure in general category. I was until recently convinced he's scum, but I really like his more recent posts, so he gets upgraded to null.

I really need to go investigate CD, Declan. I've been tunneling on Aus/MM/Otolia.

USC's playing much differently this game than another ongoing. He's null leaning town.

Agree with your scumreads minus GM. Don't know what to think of GM right now, more investigation required.

It's in regards to this post of Fery's.

Please show me directly where I am 'busing' GM. I must be totally retarded because I'm not seeing how I'm even directly talking to him during this day period. Unless you are talking about Day 1 / Day 2. It's really irrelevant speculation unless I flip scum. You are just trying to 'puff' up your case against me with useless flip speculations before they happen.

I'll proceed:

Actually, the SK locking himself into a VT is a stupid move because he still has the chance to fake claim at a later date. Him locking himself in now puts him at a disadvantage because he could easily have himself a way out if he claimed Vig or Dietitian. More Vig over Dietitian because he still has the power to kill.

Due to this he could be town yet you don't like me saying this.

Last one:

You are right and I forgot about that. Although that doesn't make me scum in the least bit because SK is still a high priority to town to want to lynch. As it still goes against town wincond.

[Bulbazak]

Syryana, every time I go to dispute you, I either realize that you're right, I can't find what I'm looking for, or what I wanted to quote didn't exist in the first place. Therefore I think it best to just post my reads, this time in a more straightforward manner:

Town:
Mala

Null:
Ffery
Otolia

Scum:
Syryana
Goodmorning

We're obviously not going to agree on Mala, as we have 2 opposite reads on her, and I'm not impressed by your case so far.

[Syryana]

Syryana, every time I go to dispute you, I either realize that you're right, I can't find what I'm looking for, or what I wanted to quote didn't exist in the first place. Therefore I think it best to just post my reads, this time in a more straightforward manner:

Town:
Mala

Null:
Ffery
Otolia

Scum:
Syryana
Goodmorning

We're obviously not going to agree on Mala, as we have 2 opposite reads on her, and I'm not impressed by your case so far.

Fair enough.

@Mala: Going after the SK when killing the SK may cause us to lose the game is anti-town. If you don't understand this by now, I don't know what to tell you.

[Syryana]

Oh, and what was this idea you had earlier, Mala?

[Malakittens]

CD could have been mafia and you are forgetting that USC could have also been the vig.

So we are still unsure if we have 2 mafia left as opposed to 1. We also don't know if Fitz or DC could have been the SK or mafia.

You say we have to assume the worse, but you are trying to paint me scummy because I'm going after an anti-town role.

___________

My idea was that *you* possibly could have been setting me and Oto up for lynches with possible kills. I'm still leaning towards that idea.

[Syryana]

CD could have been mafia and you are forgetting that USC could have also been the vig.

So we are still unsure if we have 2 mafia left as opposed to 1. We also don't know if Fitz or DC could have been the SK or mafia.

You say we have to assume the worse, but you are trying to paint me scummy because I'm going after an anti-town role.

___________

My idea was that *you* possibly could have been setting me and Oto up for lynches with possible kills. I'm still leaning towards that idea.

There are many scenarios. I choose to look at the worst one. If I'm wrong, great. If not, I'm prepared.

I'm painting you as scum because I cannot fathom you going after the SK when doing so might cost us the game. I don't frankly give a damn what happened in your previous games w.r.t. SK; if you kill him now, and there's two mafia left, WE LOSE. Period. Sure, if there's no mafia left we win, if there's one left we get to 4P MyLo.

Now, let me ask you this. Let's assume for a moment you're right, I am some flavor of scum, and I killed CD to make Otolia look bad and either fitz or DCL to make you look bad. Why then, did I lurk all day yesterday? GM decided to push him; I didn't do anything. You decided to push him later after SS claimed; I hopped on for pressure. If indeed I killed CD to make him look bad, why did I not attack? Why did I hammer a possible PR and bring so much attention to myself? What was my motivation?

[Malakittens]

CD could have been mafia and you are forgetting that USC could have also been the vig.

So we are still unsure if we have 2 mafia left as opposed to 1. We also don't know if Fitz or DC could have been the SK or mafia.

You say we have to assume the worse, but you are trying to paint me scummy because I'm going after an anti-town role.

___________

My idea was that *you* possibly could have been setting me and Oto up for lynches with possible kills. I'm still leaning towards that idea.

There are many scenarios. I choose to look at the worst one. If I'm wrong, great. If not, I'm prepared.

I'm painting you as scum because I cannot fathom you going after the SK when doing so might cost us the game. I don't frankly give a damn what happened in your previous games w.r.t. SK; if you kill him now, and there's two mafia left, WE LOSE. Period. Sure, if there's no mafia left we win, if there's one left we get to 4P MyLo.

Now, let me ask you this. Let's assume for a moment you're right, I am some flavor of scum, and I killed CD to make Otolia look bad and either fitz or DCL to make you look bad.

Why then, did I lurk all day yesterday?

To avoid bringing attention on yourself.

GM decided to push him; I didn't do anything. You decided to push him later after SS claimed; I hopped on for pressure.

If indeed I killed CD to make him look bad, why did I not attack?

He was already gaining suspicion plus you attacking him would look opportunistic. You needed to find a decent reason to hop onto the wagon.

Why did I hammer a possible PR and bring so much attention to myself?

You saw an easy way to get rid of a PR. You took it as you had an excuse because you had his original slot as scum which overlaps. Perfect reason to jump onto a wagon.

What was my motivation?

To get rid of a town/pr and to hope to have more die in the night.

____

Also, can you link to me a completed scum game of yours? If you have more link more.