Open 479: White Flag (Game Over)

[havingfitz]

Are you a known alt? I can only think of 2-3 players that have expressed the inclination of avoiding me And based on your play so far I don't see you as being one of them.

[havingfitz]

I actually saw a town crossvote in a 5p lylo and scum waited 3 days to come in and hammer. and they were around posting in the thread...quickhammers in 7p lylo are really unlikely especially since there are 3 players calling me town and if one of them voted me it would be obvious they are scum. So basically that argument is bullshit.

You aren't the wagon they would support

[Jake from State Farm]

yes I am a known alt and as far as I know only 2 people know who my main is (not counting anyone affiliated with the website who has access to my alt list)

I am hoping those 2 people don't tell anyone else as I would prefer that those remain hidden. This is now essentially my main as I have "retired" any other account I have played under.

[petroleumjelly]

oh and thor didn't answer my direct question

but petroleum definitely waffled when DCL was getting run up

vote: petroleum

Hi. Show me where I "waffled," please.

If the fact that I reread the game after we had two more flips on Day Three in order to see if it would influence my reads is

waffling

, please explain why you think that. And then explain how it is waffling when after I did reread, I explicitly

kept

DCLXVI as a Townread.

Furthermore, I asked you several questions in my post. Answer them. And then explain how it is you apparently have not read

any

of the following players:

I still need to iso having fitz, llama, and huntress

So let's get this straight: you were 100% sure DCLXVI was scum. And then you decided to vote for me in LYLO. And you did all of this without having read

half of the living players in the game

who are not you?

[petroleumjelly]

Vote: Jake from State Farm

I think you are scum who replaced in with the general agenda to get DCLXVI lynched. Upon seeing actual resistance to the DCLXVI wagon, you held back your vote and instead voted for the biggest roadblock in the way of that plan. This fully explains why you have read players in isolation in the order you claimed to have read them.

I am much more happy with this vote over being forced to choose between DCLXVI and havingfitz (where I felt I was going to have to vote havingfitz eventually simply because he is not DCLXVI, which is not how I prefer to vote).

[Jake from State Farm]

Hi. Show me where I "waffled," please.

I already did, I specifically quoted where you did actually.

ok so I opened up excel and wrote down all of the votes/suspicions/town reads for the dead people and turns out I was wrong and actually most of the dead people thought DCl was town.

Here is what I have

Remembering Sunday

Voted

- RachMarie

Scummy

- RachMarie & Thor

Town

- Hiraki & DCL

Equinox

-

Voted

- Huntress, DCL, Rach, & Sunday

Scummy

- Rach & Thor

Town

- DCL

Mikeburnfire

Voted

- PJ, Thor, Mert, Thor, & DCL

Scummy

- DCL, Rach, Thor, & pj

Town

- Llama, CD, & Huntress

Hiraki

-

Voted

- Thor, Mert, Thor

Scummy

- Thor

Town

- CD, Jake, pj, & mikeburn

RachMarie

Voted

- Mike, Fitz, CDB, & Fitz

Scummy

- Fitz, Thor, & Llama

Town

- DCL, Huntress, & PJ

CD

Voted

Rach, DCL, Huntress, Sunday, Huntress, DCL, Huntress

Scummy

- llama & huntress

Town

- Fitz, DCL, PJ, Thor(slight town read)

The only thing this list tells me is I was wrong when I said more people thought DCL was scummy, turns out more people think he is town. Hiraki kill was weird and unless I missed it he only really thought Thor was scummy. Equinox thought thor was scummy, Sunday thought Thor was scummy, Rach said if Thor was alive today he should be lynched (I am inclined to agree, especially since he isn't trying to find scum today like he has in the past as town)

Despite PJ being a town read by most, the couple of things I pointed out don't really make sense from a town perspective. I have to dig deeper to see why these people have him as a town read.

will do more later, I really need to get to work.

p.edit - if you say so

[Jake from State Farm]

Furthermore, I asked you several questions in my post. Answer them. And then explain how it is you apparently have not read any of the following players:

I could not manage to read that post on my phone, nor do I like reading big walls of text. If you asked me questions please break them out into a smaller post.

As for why I have not read the remaining ISOs yet, it's cause I'm busy and only do ISOs on a computer

[Jake from State Farm]

Once I finish my isos, I'm still going to vote you pj. You committed the biggest scumslip by waffling on your DCL read when he was being run up. That's not town motivated. Quite frankly I don't even believe you did re-evaluate all your reads like you said, cause your posts would have reflected that. They don't.

[greygnarl]

VOTECOUNT

DCLXVI: havingfitz
havingfitz: DCLXVI
Jake from State Farm: petroleumjelly

[Jake from State Farm]

What does that mean?

[DCLXVI]

Two crazy thoughts I'm having right now:
1. I'm having serious second thoughts about llama being scum.
2. I had mert as town the entire game but I'm rethinking that because of how he has continued his suspicion of me.

Basically, when town replaces in there is a good chance they will have different reads then their predecessor because they have no other info and no ulterior motives. For example vegie suspected me upon replacing even though CBD thought I was town. Jake coming in and immediately going after me when his predecessor had basically voted me most of the game is certainly suspicious because it looks as if he has an agenda of getting my mislynch rather than actally scumhunting.

unvote:fitz

, for now while i process some things. This is not a retraction of my scumread on him.

[Jake from State Farm]

Well that's really not true though cause I had no idea who my slot thought was scum. I haven't even read his iso yet. I came to my scum read on you based on the dead people, but actually when I read deeper and made my chart, turns out I was wrong and they all had you as a town read.

Not to mention if that was true I would have voted you instead of the person who waffled on their town read of you.

Pj's accusation is false also cause there is already 1 person voting you, if I was seriously trying to get you lynched I could have easily voted you. But I didn't.

[Jake from State Farm]

I actually saw a town crossvote in a 5p lylo and scum waited 3 days to come in and hammer. and they were around posting in the thread...quickhammers in 7p lylo are really unlikely especially since there are 3 players calling me town and if one of them voted me it would be obvious they are scum. So basically that argument is bullshit.

link?

[Jake from State Farm]

so after reading Fitz & llama

Fitz still reads town to me/ His posts look genuine and his I can understand some of his votes/attacks on people.

llama reads scum - the vote on CDB was bad, the attack on DCL is something I would absolutely expect from him as scum.

going to start huntress later

[DCLXVI]

@jake

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=21425

[DCLXVI]

Oh, and looking over jake's posts again I noticed (what I think is) a towntell ... so yeah, more fun stuff to deal with.

[Jake from State Farm]

@jake

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=21425

what was this for?

[DCLXVI]

oh, that is the 5p lylo. the 7p one is this http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=26362

[Jake from State Farm]

lol I forgot I asked for a link. smh

[LlamaFluff]

Im actually going between Thor and DCL. Thor just trying to seem to make DCL vote me without actually voting me freaks me out on so many levels because the natural response is either to rip the fitz/DCL votes off eachother or figure which is scum of the two. He goes an entirely different way which seems more scum motivated.

Then we have DCL making me think he scumslipped at fitz is town because he is talking about "scum haven't quickhammered when they could have". And if fitz is scum... how could have they either way?

Back at square one.

Its DCL with Fitz/Thor town, or its Fitz/Thor with DCL town. Maybe this all needs to be about figuring out which choice is more valid, which probably can be picked up through "constant failure of DCL wagon" studies. Im actually leaning to the Fitz/Thor scumteam just by the way DCL has played the day (I think scum-DCL with town-Thor just says "llama-fitz" and votes me) and the NKs.

So I will do that then.

[Thor665]

It being Jake, though, he'll probably manage to gak that one up and call it scummy, but we can always hope.

you know being a dick doesn't help, if you are town. I will absolutely vote you not giving a rats ass if you are town or not. So take the attitude down a notch ok?

thanks

You started it.

Thanks.

oh and thor didn't answer my direct question

Which?

Also, you also didn't address mine. I was serious about it - you are misrepping our past meta and using it as a tell on me - why?

I will say he's not trying to find scum this day phase which is a contrast to other games I've played with him.

This when I've actually done the *most* work of anyone this dayphase.
Thanks for noticing.
You probably had to read my iso for that one too, huh?

@Llama - a fitz/Thor scumteam...I...you...whut?

[petroleumjelly]

In post 753, petroleumjelly wrote:
Hi. Show me where I "waffled," please.

I already did, I specifically quoted where you did actually.

What you

did

was highlight a point in the game where I forced myself to reread the game and reassess my reads. Seeing as I had helped push along two mislynches in two game days, by Day Three I figured I might very well be approaching the game from a completely wrong angle and that I would do well to see if a readthrough with more knowledge and trying not to rely on my earlier preconceptions would help. When I said I was trying to treat everybody as equally possible scum, I was doing so in response to a series of questions from Thor665 -- which you would know if you were actually reading the game in context.

Here is the relevant conversation. I started by stating that solidifying Townreads was a good idea for players to do for themselves, since it would highlight scum in the inverse:

At this point in the game, Townreads are probably better than Scumreads. If you can confidently pick out 2-3 people you think are likely Town, then it should be rather easy to decide where your vote should end up going. The tighter we can weave a net, the better off I expect we will be.

Thor665 then asked:

So...who are your townreads?

I responded:

Prior to reading today they were DCLXVI and Huntress, as previously mentioned. My questions right now are me trying to see if I can

get

Townreads.

Thor665 then twisted my statement, acting like I was now suddenly calling DCLXVI and Huntress scum:

So Huntress and DCL have become scummy to you now, and you have no town reads at all? Or are you looking to add to the collection, and just asked them for the halibut?

And I responded:

No, though I am giving myself room to adjust my reads; I do not want to get stuck on a read solely because I am too lazy / stubborn to consider things from another angle. Right now I trying to act as though everybody has equal potential to be scum.

Essentially, I was rereading the game to see if I could nail down a few Townreads so that I could in theory assume the players who did not fall into the group were scum. In fact, in my

very next post

(after I had managed to reread the game), I posted:

Vote: vegie

Based on the gamestate and the fact that I

still

have a feeling DCLXVI is Town, I think vegie is scum here. The fact that vegie is somehow voteless at the moment suggests to me that his partners are conveniently ignoring him. Being "confident" enough to be willing to be lynched as Town is not a position Townspeople make (or at least one they

should

not make), and it makes me think he is just trying to push through a lynch once and for all. This is bolstered by his near-refusal to give other reads. That is what I would consider to be pretty stereotypical play from a scum replacement: replace in, "do your job" (i.e., get a lynch before you are lynched), and then the rest is theoretically gravy. I don't like it, and it doesn't feel like he is Town.

At the time I made that post, DCLXVI was at L-2, havingfitz was L-2, and vegie had no votes. So I will ask again: please explain how I was "waffling" on DCLXVI?

The fact that you are trying to suggest that I suddenly started questioning my read when DCLXVI was "getting run up" and therefore it was convenient is really pretty dense; DCLXVI has pretty much been getting run up

the entire game

. And even so, if the purpose of me "waffling" on DCLXVI was so that I could end up voting him, I fail to see how the situation would not have been ripe for doing so should I have been of the mind to vote him.

~

I am not going to compile my questions for you: if you can't find them, you are not reading my posts very well to begin with.

[Jake from State Farm]

It being Jake, though, he'll probably manage to gak that one up and call it scummy, but we can always hope.

you know being a dick doesn't help, if you are town. I will absolutely vote you not giving a rats ass if you are town or not. So take the attitude down a notch ok?

thanks

You started it.

Thanks.

oh and thor didn't answer my direct question

Which?

Also, you also didn't address mine. I was serious about it - you are misrepping our past meta and using it as a tell on me - why?

I will say he's not trying to find scum this day phase which is a contrast to other games I've played with him.

This when I've actually done the *most* work of anyone this dayphase.
Thanks for noticing.
You probably had to read my iso for that one too, huh?

@Llama - a fitz/Thor scumteam...I...you...whut?

1. what are you 2? I didn't start anything
2. my question was about explain to me dcl town, examples of pro town play
3. I didn't mis-rep anything, if it wasn't for me town lost that game. scum even set it up so I could hammer wrong, but I took the time to figure things out. why are YOU mis-repping? oh yeah, cause you are a conceited sob
4. I haven't seen you do anything worthwhile this day phase :shrug:

[Jake from State Farm]

What you did was highlight a point in the game where I forced myself to reread the game and reassess my reads.

but none of your posts indicate you ACTUALLY reassesed your reads...

as for why you voted veggie (another townie btw) over the other 2, it's probably the fact that you didn't want to be another L-1 vote, that would do bad things for you if someone did VCA

[petroleumjelly]

What you did was highlight a point in the game where I forced myself to reread the game and reassess my reads.

but none of your posts indicate you ACTUALLY reassesed your reads...

as for why you voted veggie (another townie btw) over the other 2, it's probably the fact that you didn't want to be another L-1 vote, that would do bad things for you if someone did VCA

That doesn't work. In the post where you are accusing me of "waffling" (Post #514), DCLXVI was

already

at L-2 (as shown by Post #519). So if I was "waffling" on him in order to end up voting for him, I was going to be putting him at L-1 or throwing down the hammer vote either way.

And my post

does

indicate I had reassessed my reads. Post #540 (where I reassert that DCLXVI still reads as Town even on Day Three) drops my Townread on Huntress, who I had had as a Townread for Days One and Two. So ultimately rather than bolstering my Townreads, my reread ended up making me

drop

a Townread. The fact that I did not vote for havingfitz (even though he was the clear alternative to DCLXVI) is because he has not read as scummy to me -- this is shown through my dialogue with Thor665 and the fact that I was continually questioning the "case" on havingfitz. While I do not have a

Townread

on havingfitz, I do not really

suspect

him (which differentiates him from the other players in the game, who I have mild suspicion of), and no case made yesterday made me think otherwise.

This is why I have been particularly reluctant to choose between DCLXVI and havingfitz; I had the option on Day Three to push either towards a lynch when they were both at L-2, and I had the option again today when the day began with a crossvote situation. While it is of course

possible

either is scum, they are pretty much the exact two players I am most unwilling to vote in the game.

The results of my readthrough are apparent through my actions.