Newbie 1364 - Over

[fferyllt]

hi guys. Catching up.

[DeasVail]

Vote Count 1.13

Ms Marangal (3)- Nachomamma8, Fear the poster, nickthename
MilesE (1)- Cybertronix
Nachomamma8 (1)- MilesE
nickthename (1)- Ms Marangal

Not Voting: fferyllt, ChrisOrmie, BROseidon

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Replacing

Cybertronix

Deadline

14th May, 8pm AEST. This is in (expired on 2013-05-14 06:00:00)

[fferyllt]

I've done a quick and dirty read of the game thread. I'm not going to put a lot of reasoning on my reads, I mostly want them here as reminders for myself for tomorrow.

Town: Fear, Nacho,

Leaning Town: Nick, ChrisOrm

Null: Cybertronix, BRO

Scummy Ms. Marangal, MilesE

My reads are highly influenced by in-thread reactions of other players at the moment. They may change some.

ChrisOrm's townish read is partly based on Pjovik, who came off quite townish in his page 2 posts. Ms. Marangal's dissonance argument on this slot is pretty bad looking.

I seem to be pretty good at reading Nacho. I think I've had him wrong on day 1 of one game. And I think he's town in this one.

Cybertronix' few posts mostly look good to me. Needed more.

BRO's early posts left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I saw that players thought he made a good recovery. I'll look into this more closely tomorrow.

Most likely, my vote will go to Ms Marangal, I have ISO work to do tomorrow.

[fferyllt]

couple of questions...

Miles 138 I missed Nick's lie? what was it?

Post 140 I think nickthename has it backwards - Ms Marangal looks like she is buddying Bro, not the other way around

[Ms Marangal]

Pjo's post the second page consists of

refusal to answer a question

mud-slinging

OMGUS

and Straw-graspy reason for the OMGUS vote on Bro

I think if you switched your scum and your town leans you would be fine

[fferyllt]

beg to differ. The progression in posts 30, 32, 34, 37 is excellent. post 55 on the next page is also quite good.

[Fear the poster]

actually I have a giant hard-on for fferyllt's reads. They match mine to a T besides nacho. Though I'm getting further and further to the point where I think that my scum read of nacho is based on paranoia but not facts.

MsM please make a case on Chris, I'm curious about your read since you think he is scum while the rest of us have him as solidly town. Convince me.

[Ms Marangal]

A claim isn't going to do much, I'm VT How does me playing the game the same way all game scream of desperation? I

might

be hypocritical, though I made connections with my top two scum reads while Nacho connected a scum-read with, I believe he had as a null-read, and I still don't see anything past "I'm Miles partner" coming from him

but look at Chris again guys. He stated that he has had suspicion on me but didn't want to vote because of the fact that I did in fact have a good questions against him, though his reasons for FOS'ing me again for

Poor reads (which I find strange, considering that he stated that he thought a my questions against him was good. It's only a poor read because he is one of my suspects)
Tunneling (which... isn't a scum-tell... I do it marginally more as town then I do as scum)
Inactivity ( I stated V/LA twice, only twice, have been here and posting my thoughts and questioning people. My activity isn't the worst, and it's the same all across the board. that being said, I'm far from being inactive. )
and being unable to build a case against him despite others asking to do so(even though I have, and Nacho was the only one who asked and, for some reason my answer isn't good enough for him)

He stated in his Response to me that he doesn't have scum-reads, yet he has placed votes on two people. You don't vote unless you have a scum read on a person

He is posturing to OMGUS vote me, but it's evident that he's scared to be called out for such, which is something a townie never has to be worried about ever. I'm one of two people he's called out as likely scummy, both of them were going to be placed at L-1 on his vote. This tells me that he doesn't want to be associated with a mislynch

Chris, you kept your distance from Nick, then bussed him but he the pressure he built didn't last very long so you, as a scum buddy didn't have much to worry about

you scum-hunt by asking questions yes, but you don't ignore the person who has worried you the most. You asked him questions, but you didn't follow through with it. you just, more or less

let

him avoid your question which is something else that rings to me as strange[

[ChrisOrmie]

Warning: Big ass post!

After Nacho had answered my questions, MsM was actually my final person to question, but her tunneling me has provided me far more reads and glimpses into her mindset than my questions would have probably gained. Still a null-read, but her and Nacho's play has rubbed me the wrong way.

Do you think that Nacho and Ms M could be a scum team?

Going to VOTE: UNVOTE for now. I want to have a bit more discussion before giving someone the chance to hammer, as well as hopefully hear from the replacements we get. I'll be fine to place this vote again to execute on the lynch, though.

After their interactions I am beginning to doubt it tbh, I still have a few uneasy feelings over Miles and Nick, but I think MsM and Nacho are on opposite sides. Right now I'm back to a null read on Nacho since I've re-done my ISO of both players. I can't read a lot of MsM's play as townish, tho Nacho's can come from either side. I'd go with one of Nacho/MsM, and one of Nick/Miles (leaning MsM/Nick for a team atm), but until we see a flip and can analyze votes, pressure, associations, etc on day two... well we simply won't know so I'm relying on gut.

I've done a quick and dirty read of the game thread. I'm not going to put a lot of reasoning on my reads, I mostly want them here as reminders for myself for tomorrow.

Town: Fear, Nacho,

Leaning Town: Nick, ChrisOrm

Null: Cybertronix, BRO

Scummy Ms. Marangal, MilesE

My reads are highly influenced by in-thread reactions of other players at the moment. They may change some.

ChrisOrm's townish read is partly based on Pjovik, who came off quite townish in his page 2 posts. Ms. Marangal's dissonance argument on this slot is pretty bad looking.

I seem to be pretty good at reading Nacho. I think I've had him wrong on day 1 of one game. And I think he's town in this one.

Cybertronix' few posts mostly look good to me. Needed more.

BRO's early posts left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I saw that players thought he made a good recovery. I'll look into this more closely tomorrow.

Most likely, my vote will go to Ms Marangal, I have ISO work to do tomorrow.

Interesting reads tbh, I'm interested to see if there are any posts in particular which make you think Nacho is town. That and the Nick read are different than mine which makes me want to ISO Nick again and try to see what you're seeing atm.

Cyber's inactivity (and forthcoming replacement iirc) does mean we have one slot impossible to read atm and I can't ignore the fact that the slot may just be scummy - although I did like what little I saw there.

actually I have a giant hard-on for fferyllt's reads. They match mine to a T besides nacho. Though I'm getting further and further to the point where I think that my scum read of nacho is based on paranoia but not facts.

MsM please make a case on Chris, I'm curious about your read since you think he is scum while the rest of us have him as solidly town. Convince me.

Fear I'm very paranoid on Nacho right now myself, but after a re-read I can see how he could easily be town playing that slot. It took a while to get into his mindset for it but I'm at the point of wanting to see him in day two now. Then I can analyse his associations, reads and votes, and maybe get a stronger read. Please do ISO Nacho and give feedback cause he's the hardest to figure for me atm.

Also I highly encourage people to join Ms Marangal in scrutinising my posts. We've got a bit of time left before night falls, so I'd like everyone to post their doubts about anyone's posts and hold people to question for it.

##

@MsM - unless you're scum, the problems in reading each other are probably playstyle related. Of course if you survive day one, I'm sure I'll get lynched before you (HIGHLY doubt I'll last until the end since a couple of people dislike my posts/niceness atm) and you'll get to see Pjo's VT claim as the truth it is.

I will ask you one more time to stop claiming I gave up tunneling someone I thought was scum though, it's REALLY annoying to be continually misrepresented like that. I voted to add pressure in order to clear up doubts. As soon as those doubts were alleviated, I moved onto the next one in the list. Oh, and I'm not 'posturing to OMGUS' you at all - my vote doesn't need to be on you at all since you're carrying a ton of them as it is atm, hence more than enough pressure than mine would add. Plus your attacks on me, recent questions you've answered, and general posting would have been enough to form a decent read without any votes anyway.

I'm careful where I put my votes, I want to wait until I'm sure someone is scum, or until a deadline approaches and we need to lynch. Day one is all about spreading the pressure around and watching reactions, not tunneling imo (seems a poor strategy with so little to go off so far). I'm not afraid of being associated with a mislynch, rather that I'm petrified of mislynching day one and putting town is a bad position (already stated how bad lynching town day one, then losing another in the night - very likely night one - can be going forward). I fail to see how that is anti-town play.

My FoS is on you because I can't understand your thinking in some posts, and your reads on people seem to be fairly opposite to mine. I've been open and honest about every thought, have asked the questions I needed answered (in order of doubt), shared full reads, been very active and responsive, and voted for pressure and nothing more at this stage. If there is anything you want to ask, please ask it. If there is any post you want me to explain my thinking behind - ask.

But stop voting Nick if I'm your #1 Scum suspect ffs, that's just pure bullshit and you know it. This only reinforces my (and others it seems) belief that you are not playing a strong pro-town game right now.

[ChrisOrmie]

Oh and I forgot to add: Welcome Ffery, glad to have you aboard!

[Ms Marangal]

@MsM - unless you're scum, the problems in reading each other are probably playstyle related. Of course if you survive day one, I'm sure I'll get lynched before you (HIGHLY doubt I'll last until the end since a couple of people dislike my posts/niceness atm) and you'll get to see Pjo's VT claim as the truth it is.

two premature VT claims from this slot, cool

I will ask you one more time to stop claiming I gave up tunneling someone I thought was scum though, it's REALLY annoying to be continually misrepresented like that. I voted to add pressure in order to clear up doubts. As soon as those doubts were alleviated, I moved onto the next one in the list. Oh, and I'm not 'posturing to OMGUS' you at all - my vote doesn't need to be on you at all since you're carrying a ton of them as it is atm, hence more than enough pressure than mine would add. Plus your attacks on me, recent questions you've answered, and general posting would have been enough to form a decent read without any votes anyway.

I'm finding it hard to believe that you are only voting for pressure, especially after you say

I'm careful where I put my votes, I want to wait until I'm sure someone is scum, or until a deadline approaches and we need to lynch.

This. Guess what, I am too. I never vote for pressure because I only vote scum. You can't say that you're careful where you place votes and only do so when you think a person is scum and at the same time use pressure votes. This only solidifies my thoughts that you, at the point you voted, had thought Nick to be scum. Same with Nacho.

Day one is all about spreading the pressure around and watching reactions, not tunneling imo (seems a poor strategy with so little to go off so far).

It works fine, I caught scum by tunneling multiple times D1. You can still watch for reactions while going after a single person, like right now I'm taking note of Nick (when he posts), Ffery, and Fear. I would also like to see whoever replaces Cyber reacts because he's replacing out here yet he is still playing other newbie games so his replace out could be alignment indicative.

I'm not afraid of being associated with a mislynch, rather that I'm petrified of mislynching day one and putting town is a bad position (already stated how bad lynching town day one, then losing another in the night - very likely night one - can be going forward). I fail to see how that is anti-town play.

ok, this is a fair point.

My FoS is on you because I can't understand your thinking in some posts, and your reads on people seem to be fairly opposite to mine. I've been open and honest about every thought, have asked the questions I needed answered (in order of doubt), shared full reads, been very active and responsive, and voted for pressure and nothing more at this stage. If there is anything you want to ask, please ask it. If there is any post you want me to explain my thinking behind - ask.

My thinking is unique, apparently no one understands it. Me having opposite reads to you means that I'm likely scum and that I have terrible reads? how so? I have also been all these things, well except for the pressure vote thing, and it has been noted by other people many times. What I don't get is why you feel you need to make sure people know that you are doing all these things, especially in regards to being active, responsive, and asking questions. It's pretty notable that you are and it doesn't need to be reinforced unless you are being accused otherwise, which hasn't yet happen.

But stop voting Nick if I'm your #1 Scum suspect ffs, that's just pure bullshit and you know it. This only reinforces my (and others it seems) belief that you are not playing a strong pro-town game right now.

you don't like my vote on Nick? either way, I'm thinking that I'm going to be on scum so it really doesn't matter to me. I could switch at any point between the two of you

[fferyllt]

Thanks for the welcome!

Re Nacho and posts that I liked I'll start by saying it was the trajectory of his posts. He homed in on several posts that also caught my eye and asked probing questions. I could see his reasoning - how he reached the decision to vote MilesE, and I agreed with it. Same thing with his trajectory on Ms Marangal. People good at playing scum absolutely can create that sort of trajectory with their posts, but it usually doesn't come off completely effortless and unforced and it can involve more emphasis on dots and less emphasis on connections because there's a layer of self-consciousness involved that is not easy to turn off. Nacho is good at avoiding that tendency for more dots and the layer of self-consciousness. But, I've seen that his trajectory doesn't make as much sense when he's scum.

Trajectory isn't a naturally smooth thing in posts - we react to what other people post and sometimes a line of questioning gets left in the dust due to a change in the game's landscape. Town players reactions are pretty un-self-conscious. Scum are more likely to try to maintain a consistency in stance in the face of in-thread changes, the effort sometimes looks forced, or they freeze up a little and wait to see what town makes of things before committing.

So, posts I think look particularly townish while questioning MilesE 43, 181, 285

191 - this is gold. win condition plus personal goals dictates motivation. motivation plus role lead to in-thread behavior. Scumhunting and Townhunting basically reverse engineer that behavioral path. PR-hunting, too. regardless of Nacho's alignment, and regardless of your own, this is something to take with you after the game if you don't already understand and utilize this.

206 - pushing back on an easy-to-make, throwaway read.

220 - reply to 2nd quote: this is transparency, btw.

253 - I agree with this deconstruction

266 286 288 - pushing Ms. Marangal to actually build a case on the counterwagon she wants against the MilesE wagon

298 300 340 - effectively questioning the case she presents

he's really left Ms Marangal's case on Chris in shreds to the point of his most recent post.

[ChrisOrmie]

Sorry another wall post due to reacting to comments, then getting a pedit that forced me to re-read before posting. I do tend to be verbose like this at times.

two premature VT claims from this slot, cool

Nope one bizarre premature claim from Pjo which is impossible to hide once I take over the slot. I've got no idea what they were hoping to get from that claim, and I highly disagree that it's the best role to claim - if you are a power role then you've just made yourself seem dodgy and given people no reason not to lynch you because there is a chance you're scum and they won't know they are losing a pr. I expected to be jumping into a Scum slot after reading the first two pages before getting my role PM, and it was a big surprise to see that it wasn't! :lol

I'm finding it hard to believe that you are only voting for pressure, especially after you say

I'm careful where I put my votes, I want to wait until I'm sure someone is scum, or until a deadline approaches and we need to lynch.

This. Guess what, I am too. I never vote for pressure because I only vote scum. You can't say that you're careful where you place votes and only do so when you think a person is scum and at the same time use pressure votes. This only solidifies my thoughts that you, at the point you voted, had thought Nick to be scum. Same with Nacho.

Interesting, but flawed from both of us here. You say you only vote scum, well you voted me and I know I'm town - lynch me day one and we'll see that, cos I got nothing to hide baby! Poor choice of words rather than intent imo.

However I was replying to your points about my votes going everywhere, yet not when it puts someone at L-1 (or even L-2 which is dangerous enough imo). I didn't clarify or quote clearly, and I admit that freely, but I skim over my posts to proofread and rely on the red underlines to see where I've gone wrong. Perhaps I should type slower and read over it twice to make sure that I'm getting my point across properly, however I do have a fairly busy life atm and there will be times when I do a long wall post to sum up things, so expect more of this nature I'm afraid.

Yes I'll throw votes around when they can't lead to lynches very quickly, and it's fun to see who follows or opposes, it's a good way to get reads at this stage tbh. What I was saying in the above quote tho is that I'm not here to quicklynch on day one, nor to jump on wagons left or right. I'm here to throw votes on lurkers and those who post something dodgy, then watch their (and other people's) reactions, extrapolate from that, and decide on my lynch for the day (not sure on this yet, but Nick and Miles are possibles, MsM is hard to ignore, and the Cyber-slot is infuriating but a silly lynch right now imo). In your quote, if you change scum to dodgy and said "you, at the point you voted, had thought Nick to be

dodgy.

Same with Nacho." then you'd be spot on. Dodgy means I'm suspicious and want to delve a little deeper to see what turns up. Scum means I'm pretty damn sure and I want to lynch them asap so I'll state my case, gather a wagon and stake my reputation on the flip - Not even close yet.

My thinking is unique, apparently no one understands it. Me having opposite reads to you means that I'm likely scum and that I have terrible reads? how so? I have also been all these things, well except for the pressure vote thing, and it has been noted by other people many times. What I don't get is why you feel you need to make sure people know that you are doing all these things, especially in regards to being active, responsive, and asking questions. It's pretty notable that you are and it doesn't need to be reinforced unless you are being accused otherwise, which hasn't yet happen.

First off, I never said you were likely scum, so please stop putting words in my mouth. The fact you have opposite reads to me means that I find it suspicious and dodgy, especially since we are so opposite on those reads. The poor reads is from my POV, I don't speak for the rest or judge them against anyone but my own - we're so far apart that I can't say anything but I think they are poor, but I didn't actually attribute that to you being scum, you did that on my behalf again. Final time I'm asking this, stop putting words into my mouth - it's been multiple occasions of you doing this, so either back it up with quotes or stop doing it. It's bad form, poor play, and scummy as hell which is the main reason for the FoS tbh.

Onto other things, yes I have felt the need to state my position lately. This is mainly because you're trying to turn the town against me when there is a huge wagon on you, which seems to be deflecting and one last opportunity to save your own skin. Heck if our roles were reversed and I was convinced you were scum as much as I were on you, I'd suggest lynching me so that when I flipped my reads on you would hold far more weight. Even though you lack support for the read on me you have pursued it heavily and even with a vote on Nick you're asking people to consider voting me. I state what I've been doing clearly and cleanly for you, offering up a counterpoint to your view of my assumed scummy behaviour, trying to see if you would rejoin the herd and help town get a lynch day one, or stay solo-hunting me despite how that hurts town. You've done a bit of both, but the last thing that makes me want to lynch you is explained (AGIAN) in the above paragraph.

It's not just that I didn't understand your thinking at times(I struggle with Nacho too), but that what I do understand, I don't like. This is why I stated I liked your questioning me, BECAUSE NOBODY ELSE HAD. Sure they went after Pjo, but then left me alone for too long with only a few questions in response to my own (ie Nacho). This is why I'm not getting a scum read from you tbh and my main problem remains the putting words in my mouth. I'll not be joining your wagon today methinks - you're not a bad lynch for day one imo, but we have a few more days before the deadline that we should use to examine more people (Nick who has been quiet at odd periods and had some dodgy posts imo, and Miles who is guilty of the same).

But stop voting Nick if I'm your #1 Scum suspect ffs, that's just pure bullshit and you know it. This only reinforces my (and others it seems) belief that you are not playing a strong pro-town game right now.

you don't like my vote on Nick? either way, I'm thinking that I'm going to be on scum so it really doesn't matter to me. I could switch at any point between the two of you

It's not that I don't like the vote on Nick, I've had a vote on him before, plus a FoS too. I like some of his early posts, but there was some dodgy stuff there too that I questioned him on briefly. The point I make is you seem to 100% believe that I'm scum (to the point of campaigning and tunneling me), yet your vote goes to Nick. Yes he might be your #2 scum choice, but it's as unlikely a lynch as me right now - you failed to get a wagon on me, so now you turn to Nick and try to rekindle things there (since there is already suspicion on him from most people). Is this to deflect attention away from the fact you were L-1, and are still L-2? I just can't decide between your good questions, and the annoying persistent misrepresentation of myself coupled with other's suspicions.

##

I'm done tonight and might not be on much tomorrow, but we do have

3ish days iirc left before deadline

so I encourage people to use that time to get more reads and figure out who they REALLY want lynched on day one.

@Nacho/MsM/Experienced players: Is this a long day one, or fairly normal for newbie games? I'm used to a format in live-chat where games took about an hour at tops, so it has felt weird here at times.

##

PEDIT: Damn, Ffery appears with a nice post that makes me rethink a ton of what I've written! I missed 298 I think it was, and I with the context of his other posts I'm realisng my feelings on Nacho come from me thinking he was a poor IC, not that he was scummy. Re-reading again (spent an hour on this bloody posting screen so far doing it ) I actually like how Nacho is doing the IC role, it's not what I expected or wanted, but it's actually full of lessons there. Might be WIFOM from him, but I'm actually getting a town read on Nacho.

And the way Ffery has posted, plus how well I understand the thought process, means I'm leaning town on that slot for now too. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens as we progress, as I think we have some real strong players here and even if we have pro-level scum, it's not going to be an easy win imo. \o/

I'll re-read MsM's interactions with Nacho and Miles again, and see if I can't come up with more questions for Nick/Miles while I'm at it. MsM is looking more like a good day one lynch now.

@Ffery: I understand if you haven't read enough to decide yet, but hoping to hear where you think the best day one lynch is?

@Nacho: When you took your vote from Miles, was that due to a bigger target appearing, or do you feel he's actually pro-town right now?

@Nick: In 322 you say how you don't think MsM is worthy of a vote. By 331 you are voting her, with flimsy reasons imo. But suddenly in 334 you have reasons. This is a big turnaround in a short period of time, and whilst it might not be scummy I just don't see anything between posts 322 and 334 to vote MsM (or even confirm suspicion). Please explain your thoughts around this time.

[fferyllt]

I'm leaning Ms Marangal right now, but I have work to do. One thing that I missed by replacing in so late day 1 is how this game day felt as it unfolded in real time. I gained something, too - a lot of data available for analysis right away. I'm hoping that I'll be able to add something useful because I am a fresh pair of eyes.

[Ms Marangal]

Nope one bizarre premature claim from Pjo which is impossible to hide once I take over the slot. I've got no idea what they were hoping to get from that claim, and I highly disagree that it's the best role to claim - if you are a power role then you've just made yourself seem dodgy and given people no reason not to lynch you because there is a chance you're scum and they won't know they are losing a pr. I expected to be jumping into a Scum slot after reading the first two pages before getting my role PM, and it was a big surprise to see that it wasn't!

I think alone should be enough to get you lynched.

Do you think I'm scum yet Chris?

I do, 100% believe that you are scum, I also 100% believe that Nick is scum.

I could care less about being at L1/L2 because it will make me confirmed town and there is a possibility that you will continued to get pressured tomorrow. As will Nick

aside from Nacho, the votes on me are due to the fact that I'm V/LA'ing too much and that I don't provide content, both of which are false so I'm not going to arse myself on that. I'm going to keep on pressuring scum

When you subbed in, I was Null-town and as I continue to pressure you, I become more and more scummy in your eyes which is what I mean when you are posturing to OMGUS but you're trying not to get caught doing such.

[ChrisOrmie]

I think alone should be enough to get you lynched.

Do you think I'm scum yet Chris?

I do, 100% believe that you are scum, I also 100% believe that Nick is scum.

I could care less about being at L1/L2 because it will make me confirmed town and there is a possibility that you will continued to get pressured tomorrow. As will Nick

aside from Nacho, the votes on me are due to the fact that I'm V/LA'ing too much and that I don't provide content, both of which are false so I'm not going to arse myself on that. I'm going to keep on pressuring scum

When you subbed in, I was Null-town and as I continue to pressure you, I become more and more scummy in your eyes which is what I mean when you are posturing to OMGUS but you're trying not to get caught doing such.

So anything after page two doesn't count? When I applied to replace in I read the first two pages to get a feel for people, and I almost had a panic attack when I saw a VT claim on the very first post of the thread. After I replaced in I was surprised to read how Pjo evolved her game and showed her true self. I still don't understand the claim with the first player post of the game, nor the assertion it's the optimal role for ANYONE to claim. I think one is silly play, and the other is just wrong. But how is 'that alone' enough to lynch me? I'm very puzzled.

Yes I'm finally leaning that you are scum, MsM. We've seen a lot of posts, gotten our reads, and your misrepresenting my previous statements is beyond annoying - it's a desperate attempt to deflect attention. Not sure there is much you can say to convince me you're town, but you have 3 days to do so as things stand.

I'm fine with you thinking I'm scum, you're wrong but that just lines up with the crossed-reads so far. I'm not sure why you are convinced about Nick, so in case you do get lynched and flip town, care to give bulletpoints on that to clarify? If not I'm reading your ISO again tomorrow anyway, so I'll try and see it myself.

Yeah a flip always proves our true roles. If you flip town then I expect pressure (and still welcome it as I have all along), same if we're reversed tbh. I do think you are a good day one target, and then Nick/Miles need pressure day two (along with the Cyber-slot if it's replaced by then).

I actually think the votes are on you because you backed Miles when everyone had problems with his posts, then went my slot despite everyone feeling good about it, and then resisted pressure to properly explain it but instead misrepresented my comments.

Yes, when I subbed in you were null-town. Dead middle of the active players tbh (ie not those totally absent and been/being replaced atm). It's not the fact you voted me, nor the questions that I disliked tbh. It's the stubbornness of not even considering my replies when I counter your claims about what I actually said (or worse, meant) in my previous posts, the continued misrepresentation, the puzzling defence of Miles, and the tunneling me but voting your other '100% convinced scum'; Nick. It's not posturing to avoid OMGUS, it's a slow decline from puzzlement, to annoyance, to suspicion, to gut feeling, to little scum-tells, and the re-evaluation of other posters leading to process of elimination giving me three targets - Nick needs to answer my question I posted earlier, Miles is someone I can't get a better read on so I've asked others their opinions, and then there is MsM who keeps feeding me little signs that I just can't trust her to help town.

Intent

to vote: MsM
^ Mainly for Bro and Ffery, to note they need to be careful over their vote as it could hammer. If anyone's got more questions for MsM then it's the best time imo to ask them. If I voted right now it'd be L-1, so again I'd rather hold off until we've got all the info we can. If MsM flips town, I accept the suspicion that will probably fall on me (if I survive night one).

##
1am and bedtime, not checking 'just one more site' time. Got to break bad sleeping habits, it makes work a nightmare.

[ChrisOrmie]

I actually think the votes are on you because you backed Miles when everyone had problems with his posts, then went my slot despite everyone feeling good about it, and then resisted pressure to properly explain it but instead misrepresented my comments.

Wow even I had to re-read that three times to understand what I meant. Tired posting is stupid.

*I actually think the votes on you came because you backed Miles at a time when he was not acting townish in most people's eyes, attacked my slot when you were the only one to feel that way (ignoring wagons on dodgy players at the time to do so, possibly deflecting from Miles again), and the continued misrep's.

So yeah. that's more the vein I meant for that, not the garbled mess quoted. I'll clarify the rest tomorrow.

[Ms Marangal]

There it is

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=25693 Push on Guille here, and results of that push

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=25869 and push on Yates here and results of that push

is similar to my push on you here, and the results of that push pretty much the same. The reaction Guille had there, and you reaction here are extremely similar, my 1v1 with Yates here is almost exactly the same

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=26834 Scum game on-site where I have progressively attacked the person who effectively tagged me as scum

the similarities between these three games is strong enough to state that you are probably scum Chris. I refuse to have this game end the exact same way Slenderman did

you are now even more confirmed then you were a couple posts ago
VOTE: Chris

[Ms Marangal]

likewise

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=26290 Push on Elyse here

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... Games#Town and Push on Syryr here contrast greatly in the sense that, both took me head on right away when I started to tunnel them.

I am also not going to try and Prove my alignment to you mostly because I don't have a reason to. I know mine, and I'm fairly sure that my alignment isn't the same as yours. I don't have to convince anyone of anything, all I need to do is find scum and get them lynched

[Ms Marangal]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26012

this is the second link

[fferyllt]

@Nick: In 322 you say how you don't think MsM is worthy of a vote. By 331 you are voting her, with flimsy reasons imo. But suddenly in 334 you have reasons. This is a big turnaround in a short period of time, and whilst it might not be scummy I just don't see anything between posts 322 and 334 to vote MsM (or even confirm suspicion). Please explain your thoughts around this time.

When ISOing Nick I went back to contextual view for this part of the thread. This is a good question.

Nick, could you go into your thought process through that part of the thread?

[fferyllt]

No, I saw it. that alone makes her more likely scum IMO though

Sek's is null, she isn't here but that is alignment neutral. I do not, and will not have a read on Sekushi until she gets replaced, or until she posts more

Nick, WTF is up with that post? it's nothing but fluff, and complaining about a persons play-style. It has nothing to do with the game

What is the bolded in reference to?

[Ms Marangal]

Well I'm underwhelmed. I was gone for over three hours and no content was posted.

MsM did you miss the bit where Pjo said she was experienced? Its in the ~5 posts that happened between our conversation last night/this morning and now. Whatever, not a big deal. I'm done talking about this until it actually effects my reads, for now I'll continue to assume you are not an idiot and are town and therefore will read pjo as town eventually because pjo is my strongest town read based on my, generally correct, heuristics.
Instead talk to me about Sek, I find what s/he did to be extremely scummy, coming into the thread saying "oh wow lots to look at" and going away again without saying anything. But again, I don't know how new people generally play on MS. Please, give me some insight into how you read Sek's behaviour because for now I have him/her as probable scum.

I would also like comments on my nick case from EVERYONE. Hint: this does mean you person reading this. Please comment with something that could be considered content.

This Ffery

[Nachomamma8]

I don't know how else to explain my scum read on Chris other then how his interactions with everyone else doesn't look like town interactions

If his interactions with people don't look like town interactions, it means that he's doing scummy things. Start there.

Nacho connected a scum-read with, I believe he had as a null-read, and I still don't see anything past "I'm Miles partner" coming from him

You were a scumread then, you're a scumread now. And I'm fairly confident I've dropped typing you with Miles, considering I'm voting you and not him.

@Nacho/MsM/Experienced players: Is this a long day one, or fairly normal for newbie games? I'm used to a format in live-chat where games took about an hour at tops, so it has felt weird here at times.

This is a long day for sure. Usually Day 1 lasts something like half the deadline, and subsequent days last less than that since less people and smaller majorities needed.

[fferyllt]

Ms Marangal

48 - you has a bit of a point. Her first post did have a substantive question. The characterization of pjovik as initially coming off n00b though...don't like it.

74 - "I want to believe you are town". seems off. not quite AtE, not quite buddying. Not sure what that's about. the shortened post thing seems like a silly thing to keep pushing once it's been pointed up that you feel some context was removed.

77 town reads are kinda light weight. the observations are ok. no backup/examples. style? I should know this.

82 aggressive tone here. similar to 48 in that. feels a little overaggressive.

84 now tone goes defensive. votes Nick

94 Full reads list. low on data, all feelings?

100 pjovik is "scummy but not the scummiest dude around. 149 Now a top scum read.

I don't see what changed in your thinking between these posts

.

You appear to immediately transfer your pjo suspicions to Christ because "too friendly". IME it's rare for a replacement player to not get a little slack after joining a game. I can think of a time when the suspicion stayed on a high boil in a game I played. One of the people stoking the fires was scum. I'm concerned that there wasn't some interaction or something before you decided that Chris is scum.

Going to stop citing posts. Starting around 265, what I'm seeing is mostly arguing with other people about their reads of Chris, and not much direct interaction with him. After all that, votes Nick.

Seems like today you get around to actually interacting directly with Chris.

All those posts, and I have come away with no solid idea what your case on Nick was. I'll have to re-ISO later.