Micro 151: Mafia in New-Newbie Land (Game over!)

[borkjerfkin]

The only things that strike me odd about Bork was his switch to Majiffy which I already called out

This is the final piece of the puzzle and was the reason for my town read on you D3: You were pushing this point on D2 but you were doing it

from the angle that I jumped on Majiffy as the L-1 vote because I was scum with Wisdom and wanted to lynch town.

On D3, I mentioned that I did not think you'd push that point if you were scum because it was a dead end -- Majiffy flipped scum so the bork/wisdom team was out.

Now here you are pushing the same point again but you're coming at it from the opposite angle -- the vote is weird even though Majiffy

did

flip scum? The fact that you're willing to push this point regardless of how Majiffy flipped shows that you're not actually thinking about the interactions; you just want to call it weird.

Mac should have decided on his own who he was going to RB.

By all means. Im tired of doing everything in my power to give us the best chance of winning and getting shit on for it. Fucking block anyone but jake, just state it NOW.

Yeah, I'll stick with elvis.

And the fact that you're trying to call me scummy for the plan when 1) you had no objection to mass claim (and LOL, I knew Mac was RB because he was the only one left to claim after me) and 2) you're posting shit like this on D3:

If wisdom isn't scum, this game is damn near a slam dunk.

wisdom should get lynched today regardless because we have to find out if scum was blocked or they NK'd. It's never wise to speculate.

If Wisdom is town, Mac has to make sure he says who he will be blocking tonight

tomorrow if nobody dies we have 1 clear in Mac, if Mac dies we have 1 clear in whoever Mac blocked.

Going into tomorrow with 1 clear no matter what is huge

Means you're just objectively full of shit.

You are so fucking caught.

VOTE: Jake

[Jake from State Farm]

yes I thought you were scum with wisdom, I was wrong and turns out you were scum with jiffy.

notice you didn't quote the post where you originally told Mac to block elvis

Id say lynch wisdom and mac on elvis or the opposite.

or this post

do you think elvis is the right RB target assuming we lynch Wisdom?

Seems like you are really banking on Mac blocking elvis and you seem kind of desperate if you ask me.

No to mention you are the only player who has seen scum NK like this, you bring it up in this post

The no-kill thing IS viable -- Majiffy pulled it on me in Open 454.

also if my post 1513 is full of shit, wouldn't that go the same for you since you basically said it first

he thing is, they can't do it 2 days in a row or we gain a lynch, so if our lynch today doesn't win it, and Mac dies tomorrow, whoever he roleblocks is another clear.

You were much more aware of what needed to happen yesterday and you made sure you got your way. We lynched wisdom, you got mac to Rb elvis instead of anyone else, and you came out smelling like roses.

nice job bork. nice job.

you fooled everyone.

[Jake from State Farm]

sorry the No-kill should have been in quotes like this

The no-kill thing IS viable -- Majiffy pulled it on me in Open 454

[Jake from State Farm]

By all means. Im tired of doing everything in my power to give us the best chance of winning and getting shit on for it. Fucking block anyone but jake, just state it NOW.

btw this quote reaks of white knighting. just saying...

[borkjerfkin]

It's very obvious I wanted Elvis blocked -- the plan works better to clear scummy looking people; but to try and say that I'm not allowing Mac to make his own decision is bullshit.

No to mention you are the only player who has seen scum NK like this, you bring it up in this post

Making town aware of that possibility is pro-town, not anti-town. Both elvis and mothrax brought it up it too.

also if my post 1513 is full of shit, wouldn't that go the same for you since you basically said it first

Uh, no. I'm not the one trying to call my own plan scummy. I think it was an awesome plan. I was noting your 180 in your attitude toward it.

btw this quote reaks of white knighting. just saying...

<inigomontoya.jpg>

I did not want a townread of mine blocked. I don't know where the fuck you get "white knighting" from that.

[Jake from State Farm]

"Im tired of doing everything in my power to give us the best chance of winning"

That's white knighting, in fact your whole play is. You have done a great job of avoiding suspicion by acting as pro-town as you can.

[Jake from State Farm]

I mean the moment I question you about your flip on Jiffy, you FREAK OUT as if my suspicion wasn't justified. If you were town my suspicion should not have bothered you like it did.

[borkjerfkin]

Uh, that is not at all what white knighting means. Look it up.

If anything it's a mild appeal to emotion.

But it's also true.

I AM acting pro-town because I AM town. It's as fucking simple as that.

p-edit: Back to this? Really? Explain why freaking out is a scumtell. (hint: it's not)

[borkjerfkin]

I'm just gonna quote this again because I don't fucking feel like rehashing this dumb argument:

Getting lynched is the one thing I can do that I know, ahead of time, will contribute to town losing the game, so yes, I am going to get pissed at people calling me scum.

This is devolving into a dumb conversation <snipped irrelevant stuff after this>

[borkjerfkin]

And at this point in the game you're pretty much invoking Too Townie on me with your #1630.

Lyncheroo

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm town too.

I'm not invoking too town, I've pointed out that you have a history (although its only 1 game) of bussing your partner. You are also the one who has experience with a mafia NK. I would have never thought to do something like that.

Your entire case on me is wrong.

[mothrax]

Tbf I was the first to bring up the NK thing, and I've seen it done before, even done it as scum. That part of your case is invalid.
The rest of it, like I said, if he was gonna bus he would have bussed, not been "oh maybe, maybe not"
The too town to be town argument is null.

[Jake from State Farm]

Whatever, I'm town lynch me we lose. GG to whoever is scum.

[borkjerfkin]

You go from thinking Mothrax is the final scum to voting me in the span of like 8 minutes. You're also incredibly hyperbolic in #1624 to the point that it reads really fake. You should not be posting shit like "Good game bork. Good game." and "you fooled everyone." if you are still trying to work things out -- it just looks like flailing.

And then you push some seriously obtuse shit, including the exact opposite of a point you pushed previously, but we've gone over that already.

That does not read town to me. You're also not townhunting with your scumhunting; Mothrax, with as little as he has offered, is doing this.

And I see you've dropped the point in #1630, as if that's possibly a reason for anyone being scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

I alnost never townhunt, I don't even know how to

Of course I'm flailing, 3 people express interest in voting me and I'm town. I don't want to lose but when I look at the evidence and trust my gut, it says you are scum.

If I'm wrong :shrug:

[borkjerfkin]

I don't see a natural transition from 1623 to 1624, and all I see from the last page of arguments is you contradicting yourself over and over.

[Jake from State Farm]

You never 2nd guessed yourself before? Lucky you

[borkjerfkin]

I've second guessed myself like eleventy billion times this game alone.

1624 onward looks like a charade. If you thought my plan sucked on D3 you never said a damn word about it.

Why is that?

[Jake from State Farm]

I thought wisdom was scum and it was game over. I never thought we would really be here today

[Jake from State Farm]

1624 is me second guessing myself. I've benn trying to convince myself that you can't be scum. 1624 is when I say fuck it and stick to my gut. It's 100% not a charade

[borkjerfkin]

I've benn trying to convince myself that you can't be scum.

Is a really weird way to refer to scumhunting. I don't think town scumhunts from a PoV of "I'm going to definitively prove this one way or the other" and it sounds like you're treating me differently than Mothrax as if you are strategizing, not scumhunting.

Where was any reference to your gut read on Mothrax/me earlier today or yesterday? All I see from you is a fairly convinced stance that Mothrax is the scum for most of the day until I shook things up. I see no underlying gut read that contradicts that, and the only thing that even comes close is the town tell from Mothrax on D1 that you never dug out again until...never? You're pushing the angle recently that you think I'm scum instead of that you think Mothrax is town (you also basically admitted you're not townhunting), so let's clarify: what is this "gut" read of yours actually referencing?

And what prompted you to all the sudden 180 like that? You could have done that at any point. There seems no impetus for it, not even a reread: you make the decision to flip your preferred lynch around and ONLY THEN do you look for evidence to support it -- and none of it comes from anything I did today. That is

backwards

and makes NO sense from town.

It looks more like you're pushing a new angle because of my flip on you, as that is the only thing that has changed between your [being willing to lynch Mothrax] and [my gut is telling me I'm wrong, better flip]. Since it was not a reaction to my D4 play, it looks again like you're strategizing, not scumhunting.

[Jake from State Farm]

Idk how else to say it, I was just limited to my phone the past couple if days and I didn't really think you were scum until your attack on me. Is that a little omgus? Yes it is. I'll admit that. At this point I don't know what to think. Like Elvis said, your attack on me looks town motivated cause Mothrax was the easier target, but my role pm says I'm town.

I don't really have time to go address all your points in your recent post right now, I'll try to get to it when I can. I get why I look scummy, but I assure you I'm town here. I've lost a few games recently and the idea of losing another one has taken its toll on me. (Yeah I know, AtE alert, shame on me)

[borkjerfkin]

I didn't really think you were scum until your attack on me.

...

really?

This is the first you've mentioned that. Before it was this nebulous gut read that you can't really prove you had since you don't talk about it ever.

Like Elvis said, your attack on me looks town motivated cause Mothrax was the easier target, but my role pm says I'm town.

So instead of saying "hey this looks town motivated but bork is wrong!" as town would do...you do what you did instead? no.
This also seems to contradict the sentence that says my attack on you made you think I was scum.

OMGUS is a gross oversimplification (and really mischaracterization) of this issue. I don't care about OMGUS.

I care about the fact you're retroactively bringing up reasons you think I'm scum after I keep pointing out your contradictions/spurious read changes in order to make them seem less like contradictions/spurious read changes. Like you just did.

Assure me you're town all you want. I don't really anticipate anything but that from either alignment.

[Jake from State Farm]

.really? This is the first you've mentioned that. Before it was this nebulous gut read that you can't really prove you had since you don't talk about it ever.

I can sort of prove I had a gut read, it was the fact that I basically treated you like you were town most of the game and didn't really waiver on that until you voted jiffy. Jiffy flipped scum made me feel like an ass and I realized you were probably town afterall.

my gut telling me you were scum came from when you attacked me today, I feel it's scummy because up until today you had me as a town read.

when I sat down and looked at the evidence, the things I pointed out earlier just added in to the fact that you are probably scum afterall. Majiffy self voting instead leaving myself and mothrax off his wagon also helps to give you town cred cause nobody is going to believe you were bussing majiffy.

[borkjerfkin]

I can sort of prove I had a gut read, it was the fact that I basically treated you like you were town most of the game and didn't really waiver on that until you voted jiffy. Jiffy flipped scum made me feel like an ass and I realized you were probably town afterall.

We are on the same page up to here. And because of this, I would not have expected you do

go back to the "bork votes jiffy" issue and argue it from the complete opposite stance.

Instead that should have reenforced your townread. But it was part of your argument of why you thought I was scum (except now I'm bussing!) after you already decided I was scum for, well, see below:

my gut telling me you were scum came from when you attacked me today, I feel it's scummy because up until today you had me as a town read.

I refuse to believe you legitimately think this. Seriously. This doesn't even scratch the surface regarding my posts about you, your reaction to them, and the overall evolution of the exchange; just "read changed = SCUM"

Not buying it.