Open 494: Duck Duck Goose (Game over!)

[havingfitz]

We don't need to be in any hurry to vote for a no lynch. This day just started.

Also...I'm not sure I wouldn't rather try to hit scum on TAM's wagon. With as fast as his wagon developed I would be shocked if 2-3 scum weren't on it.

[DCLXVI]

@MBF why did you vote TAM at the end of the previous day?

and yes, hitting scum is what we should be doing, but having the insurance of forcing scum to make a successful kill after a mislynch ensures that they will be more cautious than normal.

@everyone, this should go without saying but please no talk about what you may or may not have done with your pgo shots.

[Nachomamma8]

I agree that it is unlikely. However, the possibility of it will put more pressure on scum during mylo.

PGO shots are useless after a mislynch in lylo and if we no-lynch today they will also be useless because scum have the option to not kill.

Therefor, the only way to make the remaining pgo shots have value is to lynch today and if there is a mislynch everyone ought to use their pgo ability. If scum don't kill we get another day and if they hit an active pgo we get another day.

Note that the former mod of this set up agrees with DCL and basically no one else.

^^^^^^^^
this, this, this

[Nachomamma8]

Will do ISOs tomorrow since it's crunch time here.
I don't think it should be too hard to fish out the scumteam since I have good reads from yesterday.

[Fegelein]

UNVOTE: No Lynch

I can actually see a Nacho/Monty somewhat, with Nacho crusading to Monty's aid, either to stop his scumbuddy to be lynched, or buddying with Town Monty (then again, Monty did try to get No Lynch through)

Either way, it looks bad for Nacho.

VOTE: Nachomamma8

[Leafsnail]

Votecount 3-1

Nachomamma8: Fegelein (1)
No Lynch: MontyWhittaker (1)
Not voting: Whiskers, DCLXVI, havingfitz, Lastsurvivor, Nachomamma8, mikeburnfire (6)

With 8 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch, or 4 votes to no lynch.

The day will last a maximum of three weeks. The deadline will occur after (expired on 2013-06-15 17:45:00) (on the 15th of June).

[Lastsurvivor]

Haven't done Whisk's ISO but done all the rest. Might do an analysis reads order thingamabob if I feel up to it, but for now I don't.

For now

Nacho, I'm really not convinced with your sudden start on the TAM wagon. What about TAM did you find so scummy that you felt like switching ~18 hours pre-deadline?

Likewise, there are two separate things about your TAM hop that I find scummy:

1) Immediately after your TAM vote you ask Feg a question in #737 about where he was posting. I.e., after your TAM vote, you were still pursuing your case on Feg despite the fact that you just essentially dismantled the wagon on him. And the fact that your

2) reasoning for Feg-town is weak and ill-presented also gives me the willies. In #739, you say the Feg looked "sort of town." So, you were switching wagons pre-DL for someone who only looked sort of town? And, as if you immediately realized why that looked bad, you corrected it in #740 to say that he actually looks "REALLY" town. And I think the fact that your read took a complete 180 just because he attacked you is wicked scummy, given the amount of time you've spent pursuing both Hiraki and Feg (basically ever since TIP got lynched).

[mikeburnfire]

This game is going to be a monster to review. I don't trust any of you, except maybe Survivor, and even for him I don't have any evidence that he's town, just a gut feeling.

The lynch results that we have aren't very helpful, since the Irish wagon was stupid and the Method wagon was a rushed mess. Even the nightkills aren't very helpful. Notes/Morning tells us nothing. Rach may have been killed because she suspected Feng, or because she was an easy target.

[mikeburnfire]

@MBF why did you vote TAM at the end of the previous day?

Just in case one of the other votes wasn't formatted correctly.

[mikeburnfire]

Also...I'm not sure I wouldn't rather try to hit scum on TAM's wagon. With as fast as his wagon developed I would be shocked if 2-3 scum weren't on it.

I agree. DCLXVI and Feng were on the chopping block, and that TAM wagon shot up quickly. If all three were town, then there would have been some ambivalence there. Even still, I doubt ALL three of them jumped onto the speed-lurker-lynch wagon. There's probably 2 among {DCLXVI, Nachomamma8, Fegelein, MontyWhittaker, Lastsurvivor} and one among {havingfitz, whiskers}.

Obviously, I don't trust DCLXVI at all, but if he is town and Feng is scum, then that would explain why the quick-TAM lynch. Either way, I don't see them being scum together. So, I'd say that there's 2 among {[DCLXVI or Feng], Nacho, Monty, Survivor} and one in {fitz/whiskers}.

[Whiskers]

Rach may have been killed because she suspected Feng, or because she was an easy target.

So, Feng is town and you are trying to frame him?

[Leafsnail]

Votecount 3-2

Nachomamma8: Fegelein (1)
No Lynch: MontyWhittaker (1)
Not voting: Whiskers, DCLXVI, havingfitz, Lastsurvivor, Nachomamma8, mikeburnfire (6)

With 8 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch, or 4 votes to no lynch.

The day will last a maximum of three weeks. The deadline will occur after (expired on 2013-06-15 17:45:00) (on the 15th of June).

[mikeburnfire]

Rach may have been killed because she suspected Feng, or because she was an easy target.

So, Feng is town and you are trying to frame him?

Read the whole sentence.

[MontyWhittaker]

UNVOTE: No Lynch

Well, I'm out until next Monday. Don't like kill anyone while I'm gone.

[Whiskers]

Rach may have been killed because she suspected Feng, or because she was an easy target.

So, Feng is town and you are trying to frame him?

Read the whole sentence.

That

was

the whole sentence.

---

This game is going to be a monster to review.

As long as I'm going to be a monster, let me start being a monster with this post, because I think it's a particularly good one.

The lynch results that we have aren't very helpful, since

the Irish wagon was stupid

and

the Method wagon was a rushed mess.

Even the nightkills aren't very helpful.

Spoiler:

Upon review I think, ultimately, I don't have a problem with Irish's lynch.

unvote DCLXVISCUM, vote TAM

for good measure.

You showed support for both of these lynches,

after

they were lynched.

---

Whiskers, you talk too much. I'm not trying to discourage activity, but I can't keep following you. You've made 1/5 of all posts this game, and you've changed your vote 4 times within the last 24 hours.

Can you give me a TL;DR of who you suspect and why?

100 posts of me ignoring go by.

vote: Whiskers

Answer my question.

Who do you think is scum and why?

---------------------------------

Monty.

Same question. Since you haven't said anything yet, who do you think is scum and why?

Two posts of me ignoring go by.

Ooh, but your system is nice, feg. Love the arbitrary placing of "points" based on how much you agree with the actions taken in the posts in question.

Are you seriously criticizing Feng?

You, the person who has done

nothing

in terms of scumhunting?

unvote Wiskers

,

vote: Monty

Don't think I'm giving you a free pass, Whiskers. You still haven't given me an answer to my question.

---

And it turns out I'm not doing a full ISO, because I lost the motivation to do so. But I have one more I want to point out.

Spoiler: Post 644

Foremost is DCLXVI, whose wagon I've been trying to rally all day. I don't like his wagon-hopping+speedhammer opportunism Day 1. Today he began by opportunistically voting Hiraki . Furthermore, I feel his vote for Monty is (surprise surprise) opportunistic. He's just repeating arguments that were made earlier, only louder.

Secondly, you [Monty] have not been scumhunting at all this game, and you even openly admit it:

"I wasn't very active at all in pushing for anyone, town or scum." (616)

Aside from DCLXVI (the case against whom had been long-standing), you have not expressed a desire to find scum. You've also been wasting a lot of time advocating that we throw away our lynch.

Thirdly is Whiskers. She posts like crazy, but like you she doesn't try to scumhunt:

"I'm avoiding giving reads because I don't have good reasons behind them and I don't want to take the time to readthrough again." (455)

. If you look are her post history, a lot of what she says is just random interruptions. Most recently, Fitz has asked me a question, and Whiskers answered. Then Feng asked DCLXVI a question, and Whiskers answered. Yet, when I directly asked her who she suspected, she outright ignored me.

I have a null or town read on everybody else. Fitz and Method are 'leaning scum', but nothing stands out to me yet.

I want to point out that none of these have died. Besides dancing around me a little bit during the game-- buddying?-- I like to think I'm damn good enough, or at least enough of a wildcard, that I'd die. Yeah, mafia may be playing their shot safe-- the replaced lurker Notes, for example? But DCX is also

clearly

town, with enough townreads on him to make him a threat. Why aren't they dead? Their town flips would incriminate MBF.

---

Derp, plus there's that whole business about "Rach is a threat to me no matter what alignment!", based on her being a VI,

even though she's not

.

[Whiskers]

Alternatively, Rach-kill could have easily come from Feng.

Er...

Rach may have been killed because she suspected Feng, or because she was an easy target.

Yeah, fair enough.


Anyway, ISOing Rach, I see three scumreads: Mike, Feng/Hiraki, TAM. Mike was in Day 1, The others were Day 2.

[mikeburnfire]

The Irish wagon was stupid because in the end he was killed because he made a joke. The TAM lynch was just terrible. It gave us no real information as opposed to a Monty, Feng, or DCL flip, but it was marginally more preferable to a lynch forfeit, which is as far as my 'support' of it goes. That, and lurkers deserve death.

I honestly can't believe that DCLXVI is coasting so easily, and I'm the only one calling him out on his actions while other consider him nigh-confirmed town.

What has he done to help the town?

But back to the question that you've ignored for the last 20 pages: Whiskers, who do you think is town, and who do you think is scum? In particular, I want to hear what you think about Monty, Survivor and Fitz.

[mikeburnfire]

In addition: if you consider Feng to be scum, then how do you see DCLXVI's actions yesterday as being town? He diverted an impending Feng lynch and spearheaded the TAM-town lynch.

[Fegelein]

Apart from Nacho, I still have a feeling about DCL being scum, and Monty is possibly scum.

Another guy that I think is flying under the radar is havingfitz. I have a null read on him, but I'd kind of like some chatter about him too.

[DCLXVI]

The Irish wagon was stupid because in the end he was killed because he made a joke.

Upon review I think, ultimately, I don't have a problem with Irish's lynch. The vibe I get from him is that he pushes somebody, but backs off when they push back. He seems to be trying to take the path of least resistance to get somebody lynched.

[DCLXVI]

The only reason MBF doesn't like the irish lynch now is because he is trying to use it to push my lynch.

[Whiskers]

Right.

[Whiskers]

But back to the question that you've ignored for the last 20 pages: Whiskers, who do you think is town, and who do you think is scum? In particular, I want to hear what you think about Monty, Survivor and Fitz.

I think DCL and LastSurvivor are town.


I have a confirmation bias scumread on Monty (null). I have a OMGUS scumread on havingfitz (nullscum). I have a scumread on you, though when I look, I can't necessarily point to any one thing. Gut? I know there was something solid but I can't remember it now. I should have taken notes or something. I also don't like Feng much.

[mikeburnfire]

The only reason MBF doesn't like the irish lynch now is because he is trying to use it to push my lynch.

I

never

liked your part in that lynch.

DCLXVI, Monty, Whiskers.

I want to point out that none of these have died. Besides dancing around me a little bit during the game-- buddying?-- I like to think I'm damn good enough, or at least enough of a wildcard, that I'd die. Yeah, mafia may be playing their shot safe-- the replaced lurker Notes, for example? But DCX is also

clearly

town, with enough townreads on him to make him a threat. Why aren't they dead? Their town flips would incriminate MBF.

I've got an alternate explanation. Monty wasn't killed because he was actively lurking. DCLXVI wasn't killed because he was scum. You weren't killed because you're gullible and not a threat. Or maybe you're scum too.

[Lastsurvivor]

Alternatively, Rach could have been killed by Nacho because she kept on explaining his scum meta. #733 was one of these posts.

Interestingly enough, after Rach made that post saying that Nacho buses his partners, Nacho hopped off of the Feng wagon and voted TAM in #736.

This suggests that Nacho and Feng are double bussing each other, which I'm finding more and more plausible the more I think about it. I can't think of a town-motivated rationale for Nacho's hop off the Feng wagon, in any case.

Nacho buses Feng to get town cred -> Rach points out that Nacho buses his partners -> Nacho leads TAM quicklynch to deprive town of useful information and because it'd be bad if Rach realized that Nacho was playing to his scum meta -> Rach dies.