Newbie 1368 - Will there ever be a title? (GAME OVER)

[Grimgroove]

Syryana, you forgot to reply in your eagerness to dismiss my percieved scumslip from Candillan. Also, when it comes to scumslip, the one you pinted out from Candillan is dissappointingly weak. When I think of "scumslip" I think of something scum would say that would incriminate close to 100%. Like a reference to a QT for example. Not something that can be interpreted in any way, or which simply consitutes a choice of formulation. Scumslips are about meaning, not formulation.

Of course you think it's weak. He's your scumbuddy.

Urg, doesn't add up. Do you think I actually think it's weak, or do you think I try to convince you it's weak while actually believing it's strong.
If it's the first, this has got nothing to do with my alignment.
If it's the second: you just called me reasonable and logical. Why would a logical person dismiss an argument he knows is strong?

[Syryana]

It felt like trying to get a piece of both sides of the argument, trying to soothe both me and Crandaja. The fact that if I would use the "yes yep" thing later in the game is entirely irrelevant (I didn't and will not), yet he's adding it. If find this addition very odd, and the motives I see: 1. He's trying to make up for his "buddying" towards me (calling me town while nobody else does, there's even disagreement on how similar I act compared to the previous game from what I gather, yet he's claiming that I do behave the same. Even I disagree with that, given the negative attention I have not been entirely able to get into the game as much as I'd like to) by awkwardly showing others I'm not outside of his scope of criticism. 2. As I personally feel this entire yep-yes thing has been dragging on long enough, I also see it as an easy way to come off as a sensible guy who sees both sides of the story. Too easy and with no added value. Why do you like it so much?

This?

Well, he's agreeing with Crand that the "yes vs yep" thing was a silly argument, but he doesn't see it as scummy like Crand did because of the timing of the argument. It doesn't read like buddying to me and scum would be more interested in coming down on one side or another in the hopes of getting a mislynch.

How would you know? You only knew me as scum in the previous game, and now you're supposedly assuming I'm scum as well.

This may sound a bit arrogant (and if it does my apologies), but if you can fool me as thoroughly as you did last game I'm fine making the assumption that you can look town as either alignment, particularly since you have admitted you play the same way regardless.

Pedit: Trying to drag this into WIFOM-land?

[Grimgroove]

It was already WIFOM to start with, don't pretend otherwise.

[Grimgroove]

I would have opreferred a full response to 201. Asking questions and just sitting there "nodding" at the answers is not very constructive. Is it wrong of me to expect some sort of follow-up like you did for Candillan?

[Syryana]

Of the points in that leprechaun-flavored quote; I have responded already to points 3 and 5, point 1 I am still waiting on, point 4 is your answer to my question, point 2 is also no longer of relevance since I'm not interested in Crand anymore.

So I'm not entirely sure what you're wanting a full response to.

It was already WIFOM to start with, don't pretend otherwise.

The scumslips are not WIFOM. Your response to Candillan's was.

Since we're speaking of Candillan, what do you think of his response to his "scumslip"? (#199)

[Grimgroove]

Of the points in that leprechaun-flavored quote; I have responded already to points 3 and 5, point 1 I am still waiting on, point 4 is your answer to my question, point 2 is also no longer of relevance since I'm not interested in Crand anymore.

So I'm not entirely sure what you're wanting a full response to.

It was already WIFOM to start with, don't pretend otherwise.

The scumslips are not WIFOM. Your response to Candillan's was.

You claiming that my response to Candillan's scumslip is easily explained by him being my buddy is WIFOM.

Why aren't you interested in Crand anymore? Simply because he's replaced? the slot got an entire refresh? You realize the slot has still the same role behind it, do you?
Post 178 is as much about me as it is about Crand. What do you think about it? What was it that made you interested in the answer to your question (2) and why isn't it anymore?

How do you read Ravenpaw?

[Grimgroove]

Into the arena I go, my emperor.

Oh, I know what you're talking about. The "I was town that game".
I was letting him know that I was town in 1335, to give him perspective. Would it have been different if I had said "I was town that game, too."?

I still find this laughable when it comes to scumslips. I hope for your sake you have a better one on me, considering how you've been raising expectations.

Funny call on Grim, I missed it.

Like I said earlier: I think he's pretending he found it. Late ron he claims to have "misread the quote" and dropped the whole thing. Very silly. Would still like to see how he misread it, and what it was he saw.

I am town, Syryana. What are the odds of me/Grim being scum together twice in a row?
1. I personally don't find our interactions suspicious.

Bad argument, but it doesn't change the fact that it's up to you (Syryana) to show where they're bad in order for you to back up your opinion on me and Candillan being scumbuddies.

2. Those odds are extremely low.

Very bad argument indeed.

3. I'm still town.

Meh, not a tell either way.

Why have I been having trouble producing reads this game? It's because I'm trying to look at interactions, and I'm seeing too many potential scumteams to be healthy.

IWondering why he's not trying a different approach if his current one isn't working. But I also see some possible pairs so I do get what he's trying to say. (Crandaja-Ravenpaw; Syryana-LnGrrrR, for example)

Why did you vote me on the "slip", but not Grim?

fair question

Why do you like LnGrrrR? All I see in that post where you said you liked him is him subtly buddying you.

fair question

If you see self-meta as dumb, why didn't you pressure Grim on that?

fair question. Surprised you didn't refer to the fact we had a discussion about self-meta in the previous game, where I already made my point on self-meta clear. Why would you use it against me now, when you didn't then?

UNVOTE:
Forgot I was still voting Shaboo. I think he's being replaced, as he hasn't posted yet. He also has posted in other games, though~

If I was to make a reads list at the moment, it would look like this:

TOWN
Syryana/Homer
Raven
LnGrrrR/Crand/Grim
SCUM

Shaboo and Rach haven't posted nearly enough for me to get a read on them.

PS: What's the point of not sharing my scumslip? Why does it give townie points to whoever finds it? Why wouldn't scum be able to find it?

I have proclaimed Candillan to be among my main scumreads before, and I'm sure if you ISO me you'll find reasons why I did (in attendance of my full reads list). Why then proceed later on to claim I'm dismissing arguments against Candillan simply because they're directed against him (cfr. his scumslip).

A thing that strikes me as very odd, and this is directed to both Ravenpaw and Candillan: what happened to your buddying? I've seen close to none of it this game.

[Grimgroove]

Since we're speaking of Candillan, what do you think of his response to his "scumslip"? (#199)

Why did you put scumslip in between " "s here?

[Syryana]

You claiming that my response to Candillan's scumslip is easily explained by him being my buddy is WIFOM.

Why aren't you interested in Crand anymore? Simply because he's replaced? the slot got an entire refresh? You realize the slot has still the same role behind it, do you?
Post 178 is as much about me as it is about Crand. What do you think about it? What was it that made you interested in the answer to your question (2) and why isn't it anymore?

How do you read Ravenpaw?

Ah, I thought you were saying the scumslip itself was WIFOM. Fair enough.

As a general rule, I like to get input from replacements. I don't erase what their predecessor did but I do like to judge the replacement on their own merits.

Wrt 178: He was being anti-town about it, yes. I don't see it as scummy, though. You go after him, he OMGUS' you, then tunnels you thereafter. Seen it happen with newbies before. Hell, I've done it myself.

I was interested in fleshing out your thought process. I thought Crand was scummy myself and wanted to know how your reasons matched up with mine. Since I've now found the scumteam, I no longer care.

Into the arena I go, my emperor.

What is it with people buddying me this game? First Candyland with all his "Syr is so town" stuff and now you with the "Caesar/Emperor" comments.

Oh, I know what you're talking about. The "I was town that game".
I was letting him know that I was town in 1335, to give him perspective. Would it have been different if I had said "I was town that game, too."?

I still find this laughable when it comes to scumslips. I hope for your sake you have a better one on me, considering how you've been raising expectations.

Funny call on Grim, I missed it.

Like I said earlier: I think he's pretending he found it. Late ron he claims to have "misread the quote" and dropped the whole thing. Very silly. Would still like to see how he misread it, and what it was he saw.

I am town, Syryana. What are the odds of me/Grim being scum together twice in a row?
1. I personally don't find our interactions suspicious.

Bad argument, but it doesn't change the fact that it's up to you (Syryana) to show where they're bad in order for you to back up your opinion on me and Candillan being scumbuddies.

2. Those odds are extremely low.

Very bad argument indeed.

3. I'm still town.

Meh, not a tell either way.

Why have I been having trouble producing reads this game? It's because I'm trying to look at interactions, and I'm seeing too many potential scumteams to be healthy.

IWondering why he's not trying a different approach if his current one isn't working. But I also see some possible pairs so I do get what he's trying to say. (Crandaja-Ravenpaw; Syryana-LnGrrrR, for example)

Why did you vote me on the "slip", but not Grim?

fair question

Why do you like LnGrrrR? All I see in that post where you said you liked him is him subtly buddying you.

fair question

If you see self-meta as dumb, why didn't you pressure Grim on that?

fair question. Surprised you didn't refer to the fact we had a discussion about self-meta in the previous game, where I already made my point on self-meta clear. Why would you use it against me now, when you didn't then?

UNVOTE:
Forgot I was still voting Shaboo. I think he's being replaced, as he hasn't posted yet. He also has posted in other games, though~

If I was to make a reads list at the moment, it would look like this:

TOWN
Syryana/Homer
Raven
LnGrrrR/Crand/Grim
SCUM

Shaboo and Rach haven't posted nearly enough for me to get a read on them.

I'll ask more directly: does it make him scummier or townier?

PS: What's the point of not sharing my scumslip? Why does it give townie points to whoever finds it? Why wouldn't scum be able to find it?

I have proclaimed Candillan to be among my main scumreads before, and I'm sure if you ISO me you'll find reasons why I did (in attendance of my full reads list). Why then proceed later on to claim I'm dismissing arguments against Candillan simply because they're directed against him (cfr. his scumslip).

A thing that strikes me as very odd, and this is directed to both Ravenpaw and Candillan: what happened to your buddying? I've seen close to none of it this game.

I'm not sharing your scumslip because I want to see if anyone else finds it. Besides, watching you squirm makes me giggle.

About your scumreads: Candillan's in there for show. Look at your voting patterns. You voted him once early early on in the game (in RVS actually) and you haven't touched him since. If Candyland gets lynched, or close, you can bus him with almost no repercussion. However, judging from your knee-jerk reaction to my scumslip proclamation (e.g. can't find the slip, calling it lame, not attacking Candillan's horrendous rebuttal until I mention it), you weren't serious about your scumread on him. Though you've made any number of references to things Candillan's done you don't like, you've never made any effort to push a wagon on him.

Since we're speaking of Candillan, what do you think of his response to his "scumslip"? (#199)

Why did you put scumslip in between " "s here?

Because you don't think it's legit.

[Syryana]

How do you read Ravenpaw?

I forgot to answer this. Answer: I dunno, she's being a lurky-pants.

[Grimgroove]

You claiming that my response to Candillan's scumslip is easily explained by him being my buddy is WIFOM.

Why aren't you interested in Crand anymore? Simply because he's replaced? the slot got an entire refresh? You realize the slot has still the same role behind it, do you?
Post 178 is as much about me as it is about Crand. What do you think about it? What was it that made you interested in the answer to your question (2) and why isn't it anymore?

How do you read Ravenpaw?

Ah, I thought you were saying the scumslip itself was WIFOM. Fair enough.

As a general rule, I like to get input from replacements. I don't erase what their predecessor did but I do like to judge the replacement on their own merits.

How does this compute with "I'm not interested in Crand anymore"? (post 229

Wrt 178: He was being anti-town about it, yes. I don't see it as scummy, though. You go after him, he OMGUS' you, then tunnels you thereafter. Seen it happen with newbies before. Hell, I've done it myself.

Why did you think he was scummy, if not that?

I was interested in fleshing out your thought process. I thought Crand was scummy myself and wanted to know how your reasons matched up with mine. Since I've now found the scumteam, I no longer care.

Your conviction is either has proven to be a powerful tool in the past and you're using it with bad intentions, or I'm afraid we're dealing with a "Caesar".

Into the arena I go, my emperor.

What is it with people buddying me this game? First Candyland with all his "Syr is so town" stuff and now you with the "Caesar/Emperor" comments.

Do you seriously consider this at buddying? My goodness . I thought the reference is clear. Twice when I've used this symbolism it was referring to your attitude of pitching me against Candillan, just like Caesar would do to his gladiators. You sit there on your tribune and let us sort it out. I'm playing along but don't think I don't notice what you're doing. I don't like these puppetmaster-questions, as the "assignments" you give already show your clear bias.

Oh, I know what you're talking about. The "I was town that game".
I was letting him know that I was town in 1335, to give him perspective. Would it have been different if I had said "I was town that game, too."?

I still find this laughable when it comes to scumslips. I hope for your sake you have a better one on me, considering how you've been raising expectations.

Funny call on Grim, I missed it.

Like I said earlier: I think he's pretending he found it. Late ron he claims to have "misread the quote" and dropped the whole thing. Very silly. Would still like to see how he misread it, and what it was he saw.

I am town, Syryana. What are the odds of me/Grim being scum together twice in a row?
1. I personally don't find our interactions suspicious.

Bad argument, but it doesn't change the fact that it's up to you (Syryana) to show where they're bad in order for you to back up your opinion on me and Candillan being scumbuddies.

2. Those odds are extremely low.

Very bad argument indeed.

3. I'm still town.

Meh, not a tell either way.

Why have I been having trouble producing reads this game? It's because I'm trying to look at interactions, and I'm seeing too many potential scumteams to be healthy.

IWondering why he's not trying a different approach if his current one isn't working. But I also see some possible pairs so I do get what he's trying to say. (Crandaja-Ravenpaw; Syryana-LnGrrrR, for example)

Why did you vote me on the "slip", but not Grim?

fair question

Why do you like LnGrrrR? All I see in that post where you said you liked him is him subtly buddying you.

fair question

If you see self-meta as dumb, why didn't you pressure Grim on that?

fair question. Surprised you didn't refer to the fact we had a discussion about self-meta in the previous game, where I already made my point on self-meta clear. Why would you use it against me now, when you didn't then?

UNVOTE:
Forgot I was still voting Shaboo. I think he's being replaced, as he hasn't posted yet. He also has posted in other games, though~

If I was to make a reads list at the moment, it would look like this:

TOWN
Syryana/Homer
Raven
LnGrrrR/Crand/Grim
SCUM

Shaboo and Rach haven't posted nearly enough for me to get a read on them.

I'll ask more directly: does it make him scummier or townier?

Scummier, mainly because of his 3 numbered points. Now you answer the questions contained therein please. I get the feeling you've been buying an awful lot of time for yourself lately.

PS: What's the point of not sharing my scumslip? Why does it give townie points to whoever finds it? Why wouldn't scum be able to find it?

I have proclaimed Candillan to be among my main scumreads before, and I'm sure if you ISO me you'll find reasons why I did (in attendance of my full reads list). Why then proceed later on to claim I'm dismissing arguments against Candillan simply because they're directed against him (cfr. his scumslip).

A thing that strikes me as very odd, and this is directed to both Ravenpaw and Candillan: what happened to your buddying? I've seen close to none of it this game.

I'm not sharing your scumslip because I want to see if anyone else finds it. Besides, watching you squirm makes me giggle.

Squirming? Misrep.

About your scumreads: Candillan's in there for show. Look at your voting patterns. You voted him once early early on in the game (in RVS actually) and you haven't touched him since. If Candyland gets lynched, or close, you can bus him with almost no repercussion. However, judging from your knee-jerk reaction to my scumslip proclamation (e.g. can't find the slip, calling it lame, not attacking Candillan's horrendous rebuttal until I mention it),

Very curious at this point what others think of this scumslip you found. I'm actually very curious what they think about the scumslip I found with you. You kind of squirmed your way out of that one, didn't you? And yes, of course my scumslip. Keeping me away at night, that is

you weren't serious about your scumread on him. Though you've made any number of references to things Candillan's done you don't like, you've never made any effort to push a wagon on him.

Other priorities. You can only have one vote on one person at a time. Are you saying that when you have your vote against someone, you don't have any arguments against anyone else? That you don't bother to make comments about them? Even if I didn't vote, I'd like to think my comments on Candillan helped other people to think about him in a scummy light. What do you think of the references I did make? Did they sound insincere by themselves, or just because there was no vote accompanying them.

Since we're speaking of Candillan, what do you think of his response to his "scumslip"? (#199)

Why did you put scumslip in between " "s here?

Because you don't think it's legit.

That's mighty considerate of you, "buddy".

[Grimgroove]

How do you read Ravenpaw?

I forgot to answer this. Answer: I dunno, she's being a lurky-pants.

Fascinating.

[Grimgroove]

Where did the other people go?

[homertve]

2. Those odds are extremely low.

Very bad argument indeed.

Why is it a bad argument? He's right. The chances to that

are

slim.

How do you read Ravenpaw?

I forgot to answer this. Answer: I dunno, she's being a lurky-pants.

Fascinating.

What's so fascinating? I feel the same way about her.

[homertve]

Where did the other people go?

I don't know. I think Rach needs a pord.

[homertve]

*prod.

[Grimgroove]

2. Those odds are extremely low.

Very bad argument indeed.

Why is it a bad argument? He's right. The chances to that

are

slim.

The chance to that is just as slim as any other scumpair. Yet there is a scumpair out there, that's a fact. And that existing pair has just the same odds of happening as me and Candillan being scum together again. I'm obviously not saying we are, but using statistics like that is not valid in any way.

How do you read Ravenpaw?

I forgot to answer this. Answer: I dunno, she's being a lurky-pants.

Fascinating.

What's so fascinating? I feel the same way about her.

I feel there's more to be said about her besides the lurking. Her reaction to the Crand story. Her non-buddying to Candillan. The reason why I chose this choice of words is that it's also telling how Syryana intends to tunnel on both me and Candillan right now. I don't find that pro-town, and thus, fascinating.

[Grimgroove]

Where did the other people go?

I don't know. I think Rach needs a pord.

I'd even start suggesting a replacement, though it's not easy to replace an IC. But including the Title Pending game she's been largely inactive and detached for a couple of weeks now, and I don't see any reason why that would improve suddenly. No offense intended towards Rach but I think it's getting hard to ignore this trend.

[homertve]

The chance to that is just as slim as any other scumpair. Yet there is a scumpair out there, that's a fact. And that existing pair has just the same odds of happening as me and Candillan being scum together again.

A. He

is

talking about you and him being scumpair again.
B. He's talking about it in a "twice in row" context.

Those

chances are, indeed, slim.

[homertve]

I feel there's more to be said about her besides the lurking. Her reaction to the Crand story. Her non-buddying to Candillan. The reason why I chose this choice of words is that it's also telling how Syryana intends to tunnel on both me and Candillan right now. I don't find that pro-town, and thus, fascinating.

What do

you

think about all that?

[Grimgroove]

The chance to that is just as slim as any other scumpair. Yet there is a scumpair out there, that's a fact. And that existing pair has just the same odds of happening as me and Candillan being scum together again.

A. He

is

talking about you and him being scumpair again.
B. He's talking about it in a "twice in row" context.

Those

chances are, indeed, slim.

A. Where did I give you the impression I didn't know that?
B. No. Really, no. They're exactly the same as any other pair being drawn in this game.

[Grimgroove]

I feel there's more to be said about her besides the lurking. Her reaction to the Crand story. Her non-buddying to Candillan. The reason why I chose this choice of words is that it's also telling how Syryana intends to tunnel on both me and Candillan right now. I don't find that pro-town, and thus, fascinating.

What do

you

think about all that?

I have stated before Ravenpaw is in my top 3 scumreads before, so that should give you a hint.

I really should make a reads list and ISO the lot of you, but I'm having too much fun retorting to Syryana's little games, which does take some time.
I'll get started on it tonight, but might only produce a result tomorrow.

[Grimgroove]

While you're here, Homertve, what do you think about Candillan's scumslip that's been spotted by Syryana?
What do you think of the scumslip I found in Syryana's post at the end of the previous page?

[homertve]

Well, it is a slip, although I can't be sure he is, in fact, a scum. If I were in his place, I might slip the same way myself.

About your second question: Actualy, that post seemed very weird to me, because it looks like this:

Also, Grim is very good at appearing reasonable and logical as either alignment.

Scumslip?
How would you know? You only knew me as scum in the previous game, and now you're supposedly assuming I'm scum as well.

So it's seems as though you were talking about yourself. I went and read the op again (216) and understood the whole thing. You are quite right. It's very interesting.

I really wish there were more posts from other people. It's not fun this way...

[Grimgroove]

Damn yes, hadn't noticed. Thanks for pointing that out.
Going to fix that tag problem before it confuses other people.

Also, Grim is very good at appearing reasonable and logical as either alignment.

Scumslip?
How would you know? You only knew me as scum in the previous game, and now you're supposedly assuming I'm scum as well.

(he replied to it in post 224, think of it what you may and please share those thoughts)