Micro 181: Everyone's being watched (Game Over)

[RachMarie]

not just mislynched but mislynched on D 1.

Meanwhile I gave my reads...

[Wisdom]

First time for everything

[Wisdom]

And yeah, you gave your reads, unsure about everyone.

[Miss Destroyer]

whoops, still here though me and HD have to do a bit of talking.

for now UNVOTE:

I'm not exactly thrilled with the Zionite vote anymore regardless of what HD thinks. Will catch up and I'll give my individual thoughts.

[Wisdom]

Zionite you're down to 2 votes now.
Wanna start scumhunting?

[Does Bo Know]

Zionite you're down to 2 votes now.
Wanna start scumhunting?

^^Ninja'd

[Wisdom]

DBK, thoughts on Rach?

[Does Bo Know]

I think she needs more questioning. And pressure.

UNVOTE: Wisdom
VOTE: RachMarie

@Rach: Why did Zionite go from scummy to more townie in your reads? Why am I leaning town? Why do you think Fuzzy is a good player? Why did you warn us about Grim's join date? Why do you assume Wisdom is tunneling?

I personally think Rach did overreact to Wisdom's pressure. Rach assumes Wisdom is tunneling when I didn't see it that way. I'll wait for her to answer my questions.

[Miss Destroyer]

Holy shit, HD liked Bo for town and I agree with him though one thing catches my attention

"That’s all gut, though. In fact, I’m more confident Mala is town if Zionite flips scum, than I am confident Mala is scum if Zionite flips town."

I was gonna tell you that you were misrepping, but I went back to check. So yeah, Malatown/Zionscum is more likely to me than Malascum/Ziontown.

More reasoning to this if at all Possible? HD liked Zio scum, and he also left me a note saying he liked Mala scum and I'm agreeing with Mala-scum. alot of the stuff you are saying remind me of stuff HD left me when he stated his vote and his confidence in Zio scum is super similar to yours.

I think I'm vibing rach as town this game, she's more aggressive than her scum games I had with her so I'm leaving her alone.

I'm thinking Horus was scum, though I'm starting to lean town on him and I'm leaning town on groove so I didn't read their walls.

I think Wisdom might be town...

[Zionite]

Zionite you're down to 2 votes now.
Wanna start scumhunting?

Definitely, thanks. I'll have a bigger post later tonight.

Rach seems aloof to me; not really engaging with the material in the game, favoring minutiae, etc. I can't call that a scum attribute because I know plenty of town who do the same thing, but only to a certain point. I'd like to see the answers to DBK's questions.

[Miss Destroyer]

Wisdom is going to have to explain that rach town read to me though, I understand where she is coming from

♀

[Miss Destroyer]

I mean Rach scum read, not town read

[Wisdom]

She's overreacting, I don't think that calling her scum in 2 posts equals tunneling.
And her post where she townreaded Horus after others did so was also terrible.
And her reads are a little town lean here, a little scum read there, and everyone else unsure. She doesn't even look like she's suspecting anyone.

[Wisdom]

Btw, is there a reason HD is leaving you notes instead of posting inthread himself?

[Wisdom]

Btw Rach, you didn't mention Malakittens at all in your reads.

[Miss Destroyer]

yeah

He skimmed through the thread and he was giving me his reads. He said he was going to post today because he didn't have the time to last night

[Miss Destroyer]

And her reads are a little town lean here, a little scum read there, and everyone else unsure. She doesn't even look like she's suspecting anyone.

This makes her scum because...?

[Wisdom]

Because scum don't want to commit and just align their reads with what town seems to think at the time. For example town read on Horus. They leave everyone else unsure so that they can do whatever they want later without contradicting.

We talked about this like 1 page ago.

[JasonWazza]

at mod is it possible to use a large cattle prod on the hydra? This is getting ridiculous

Prodding Miss Destroyer

If your going to ask for something, make sure it's not something I've already done.

[Does Bo Know]

@MissD: The answer is in a wall somewhere, I'll dig it out when I'm at a computer.

[RachMarie]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=25670 Open 478

Claimed N 1 Doc got lynched on Day 1 by seven townies Thought Wis was town too and he was and I was gonna protect him on n 1


the rest I cant share cause still ongoing. But the above is very typical...

meanwhile how on earth did you get that from my reads Wis?

DBK feels like hes prob town because he put together a list of reads, dont completely agree with all of them, but he still did it. He is putting pressure on me also feels from a towny PoV. I think scumz would have held off a bit longer and waited to see if Wis got my wagon up higher first.

you are wrong on me suspecting none I suspect everyone cause I dont know which of ya all is town and which is scumz ... yet.

Some I suspect more than others

Mara maybe you are in too many games girl Dont you and HD disappear like that. I cant read your slot iffen you do. And I know both of you are good players.


This is NOT an ongoing game cause we rerolled but Grim pulled scumz in the first try of N 1368 and had us all fooled he was town. that is why the warning. I will not talk about the rerolled game though since it is ongoing.

Mala is on V/LA and so far I dont have much on her yet. She is good as both town and scumz.

[Zionite]

So I ISO'd fuzzy in order to get a clearer picture of his play so far. My main point against him is a contradiction of interest in pursuing me over Grimgroove despite committing the same "scummy" act. There's also another lesser contradiction where his pressure vote has value but my pressure vote is somehow useless, but both have the same strength.

Premise number 1:

Zionite did not ignore a vote on himself without reason. 48

Premise number 2:

Grimgroove did not ignore a vote on himself without reason. 49

Premise number 3:

The Town response to a vote on yourself without reason is to ignore it. 149

Premise number 4:

Fuzzybutternut votes Zionite. Does not mention any read on Grimgroove. 54

Conclusion:

Fuzzy is showing preference to voting Zionite over Grimgroove despite both being valid targets.

He has yet to give a read on Grimgroove at all. I can't say why he shows preference, but my instinct believes it is because I had more votes on me at the time.
VOTE: Fuzzybutternut

I've cut some irrelevant stuff to make it easier to read, so please give it a look.

Spoiler: fuzzywuzzy

VOTE: Zionite

Contribution to town shouldn't have to be forced.

Follows Malakitten's vote for the same reason. I'm not sure how asking for a read from someone is scummy, especially in this instance. I thought it was weird that Grimgroove had ignored Horus' actions entirely in 49. I hadn't gotten the read of Grimgroove that I wanted from that single post, so I kept it on while asking for more. This is just really a bad vote to begin with; why punish a player for pressuring someone?

Voting a lurker looks like you're wanting to get an easy PL lynch going.
Which is what scum does.
Yeah. I like my vote.

Not sure what PL means. Phantom Lancer?
I picked this post because it's a false premise. Yes, scum do like easy lynches. And me pushing an easy lynch is a good sign I'm scum. The problem is that I was never voting with the intention of a lynch. I was voting with the intention of pressure. Fuzzy knows this, or should know this, given I was the only vote on Grimgroove and never tried persuading others to get an "easy lynch". This post is simply an incorrect assumption, a justification for his vote to remain on me while the wagon becomes more popular.

Umm...yes, I can, actually. Your vote as it is right now is useless, as we have no information on the slot. Tell me how that helps town?

My vote on Grimgroove is useless, but his vote on me is not? They serve the same purpose: pressure. He even says so in 102.

fuzzybutternut: You had been posting during RVS without random-voting, then I voted for you for not voting and then yiu random-voted. Do you see value in RVS participation? If so, then why were you abstaining until I brought it up? If not, then why did you join in at my prompting?

I had one post before my RVS. Therefore, this question is invalid.

This post dodges his question. He's asking why Fuzzy only participated after Horus said something about it. An answer would be "oh I was busy" or whatever. But Fuzzy says he only had one post, which doesn't answer the question at all. I don't understand how the question is invalid because of how many posts Fuzzy has.

lol Horus, stop being so damn town. It hurts.

Jumps on Horus is Town wagon; no reason why. The previous Horus posts don't have anything telling; just a meta research post and talking about mafia in general. There's no positions taken to agree with.

Well, I initially put my vote on him to pressure him and, since then, he's shown me no reason to take it off, so, yeah.

You haven't given us reason for the original vote besides pressure despite promising more details.

You haven't shown why my response to your pressure vote is reason to leave it there.

Because you all but freaked out over it. Town doesn't do that.

Lack of evidence. What is a freak out? How does that make me scum? What games are being shown that support the claim: Scum freak out over votes? It's just as likely for town to react to votes on themselves, so what is the difference between a normal reaction and a freak out, and why is that a scum tell? This is just too interpretive to hold any weight without some tangible evidence to work with, like a previous game with a scum meltdown (or even a Zionite scum meltdown) and why this situation is similar.

Uh, the town response would be to ignore it, Zi.

Why do votes matter to you so much if you're town?

DBK- I said that

a town response would be to ignore those who vote you without reason.

I can quote if you'd like.

Premise number 1:

The Town response to a vote on yourself without reason is to ignore it.

I'll case Fuzzy when you're done with whatever this is.

Does that make me scum? Your original argument somehow concludes that it does but I don't follow.

Some things can't be defended, and you're really good at pushing those rhetorical arguments. But when you pull it apart and look at the pieces it's easier to tell where it is flawed. This is a good interaction though; I think it's safe to say we're not scum buddies.

If I was one of your top suspects, you'd already have been on my case and you wouldn't have left my case unless you had a reason.

WIFOM. Who says I have to do this as town? Who's to say scum can't do this too? It doesn't mean anything yet is used to justify the vote.

After reviewing Rach's posts as well, I'd be comfortable switching my vote to her if needed.

[Does Bo Know]

Because scum don't want to commit and just align their reads with what town seems to think at the time. For example town read on Horus. They leave everyone else unsure

so that they can do whatever they want later without contradicting.

We talked about this like 1 page ago.

We could say the same about your town reads.

That you'd never have to move a town read to a scum read and look suspicious for it, because you won't state the town reads in the first place.

[RachMarie]

At Zionite

Not sure why everyone thinks I am scum in just about every game I am in...

PL is Policy Lynch

[Wisdom]

DBK, your point being? Marangal was asking me why it's scummy.