Newbie 1379 (Game Over)

[Future]

Not much to say, GM.

I'm also not thrilled with DP's ISOs. Seems like a way to save face.

[notscience]

DP, there is a difference between newbtown and newbie. It's a matter of motivation, not making mistakes. Some people mean well but just don't know how to, but they try. These are newbtown. Some people prefer to sit in the back and get a bit overwhelmed under pressure, make simple mistakes that should be thought of some but not a lot. These are the null ones.

[goodmorning]

Its only until 79 where GM actually starts to make relevant posts.¹ A bulk of the posts before that involved accusations of coaching, which barely make any sense¹ considering it was an off hand RVS remark¹ which barely counts² as coaching³. Funny thing is, its what spurred her tunneling of her main scum read, Future.⁴ The other part is IC explanation play. Funny thing, why would it strike you as strange when DDC said he played rolecop once, when this set up has no rolecop?⁵

Her whole "there arent any tells that go beyond newb to an actual alignment" in 133 seems logical at first. Then later she contradicts herself by saying in her reads that Slyther is "screaming newbtown".⁶

116 is worded quite awkwardly. "if I were a townie with a scum read on Saki"? Very odd emphasis on "if I were a townie". So, youre not a townie?⁷

I dont quite get how she made her read list.⁸ As I've stated she says Slyther is screaming newb town, while saying Saki is null because "this guy is a newb, hasnt dropped any real alignment tells".⁹ No explanation for The Antagon read.¹⁰ The Edos read makes no sense.¹ If a player has a known "scum meta", wouldnt said player avoid exhibiting traits from said playstyle?¹¹ Its like a read list for the sake of having a read list.¹

Again, I ask, what exactly about Future's willingness to be lynched made¹²

How is attacking players for playstyle "blatant townfishing cred" ?¹³

That being said, her case on Future makes the most sense out of all the cases on Future,¹⁴ such as the questioning of the holes in logic like in 107 by calling Future out for perceived scum tells, which players of both alignments actually do.

In any case, aside from that 116, Im comfortable putting her at null-leaning town to town. She does comment on most of the things happening here, her caseslook solid and they look like theyre legit scumhunting.¹⁵

1. Says you.
2. How do you quantify "barely counting" here?
3. Plus, doesn't even something that "barely counts" still count? So aren't you admitting that my accusations were at least slightly sound?
4. Funny?
5. It doesn't strike you as strange when someone goes out of their way to tell you they've been Scum before?
6. I said there weren't any alignment tells

from Saki

, though I could have worded that sentence much more clearly. Slyther is indeed screaming newbTown.
7. Sentence is intended to be read without emphasis. Indeed, at present I am not a townie with a scumread on Saki.
8. Off the top of my head.
9. The point?
10. On the contrary, stated reason is paranoia.
11. You'll begin to see that there are some things players just can't help displaying as certain alignments, particularly if you play an anon-alt game like Author Mafia.
12. Curious to see the end of this sentence.
13. It's not so much that he was attacking them for playstyle, it's that he was attacking them for not voting (which is largely a playstyle issue) in order to look like do-something Town.
14. I'm flattered. Interesting that you failed to mention my continued lack of answers to you.
15. Interesting.

Not much to say, GM.

Really? Why not?

[goodmorning]

Also your links are still broken. It's because you're putting spaces inside the tags.

Incorrect:

Code: Select all

[post] 71 [/post]

Correct:

Code: Select all

[post]71[/post]

[Antagon]

Welllllllll, never say never. I self-hammered once to prevent a no-lynch at deadline, providing valuable information to my fellow townies.

Correction then.

Self-hammering as town is always bad unless not hammering would lead to a no-lynch.

And even that's generally frowned upon. goodmorning, could you give me a link to that game?

goodmorning, have you seen this yet?

[notscience]

Welllllllll, never say never. I self-hammered once to prevent a no-lynch at deadline, providing valuable information to my fellow townies.

Correction then.

Self-hammering as town is always bad unless not hammering would lead to a no-lynch.

And even that's generally frowned upon. goodmorning, could you give me a link to that game?

goodmorning, have you seen this yet?

I remember seeing a link somewhere in this game to it. ISO GM.

[Messiah]

Newbie 1379 - Votecount 1.9

---

Future (L-2) -

goodmorning,

Slyther, Edosurist, Antagon
DoctorPepper (L-3) - Future, notscience
Saki (L-4) - DoctorPepper

With nine alive it takes five to lynch.

(3)

Not voting

- DiplomatDC, Saki, goodmorning

Current Phase Deadline: (expired on 2013-06-06 21:00:00)

[goodmorning]

Welllllllll, never say never. I self-hammered once to prevent a no-lynch at deadline, providing valuable information to my fellow townies.

Correction then.

Self-hammering as town is always bad unless not hammering would lead to a no-lynch.

And even that's generally frowned upon. goodmorning, could you give me a link to that game?

goodmorning, have you seen this yet?

I supplied said link in 276.

[notscience]

Welllllllll, never say never. I self-hammered once to prevent a no-lynch at deadline, providing valuable information to my fellow townies.

Correction then.

Self-hammering as town is always bad unless not hammering would lead to a no-lynch.

And even that's generally frowned upon. goodmorning, could you give me a link to that game?

goodmorning, have you seen this yet?

I supplied said link in 276.

Who do you think is a stronger lynch atm, DP or Future?

[DoctorPepper]

Not much to say, GM.

I'm also not thrilled with DP's ISOs. Seems like a way to save face.

Like I said, I havent exactly been as engaged in this game like I should, so I decided to get in it. It seems like you hate everything I do at this point.

[goodmorning]

Who do you think is a stronger lynch atm, DP or Future?

Define "stronger lynch".

[notscience]

Who do you think is a stronger lynch atm, DP or Future?

Define "stronger lynch".

I'll split it into two parts.

Provide more info

Chance to be scum

[Antagon]

Welllllllll, never say never. I self-hammered once to prevent a no-lynch at deadline, providing valuable information to my fellow townies.

Correction then.

Self-hammering as town is always bad unless not hammering would lead to a no-lynch.

And even that's generally frowned upon. goodmorning, could you give me a link to that game?

goodmorning, have you seen this yet?

I supplied said link in 276.

Oops. As a bonus, here's some reads.
Edosurist: Town. General good questioning and makes points that have extremely good town motivation. I especially like 168, 170, and 233
goodmorning: Null, leaning town. I like 86, 230, 271 as an example of decent scumhunting. However, I find 19 and 26 to be redundant and dragging the coaching argument on when it should have already been over. 230 also kind of rubs me the wrong way with Edosurist's read. I don't disagree that he's not town, but I find it weird that she's using meta reads solely as her reason. Just something that I find interesting, but it doesn't mean she's scum.

More tomorrow or on the weekend.

[DoctorPepper]

I kinda find it funny that I received flak for voting for Saki and townreading Diplomat quickly, when Antagon had the same stance as me, without voting for Saki.

That move to get past the whole coaching nonsense was town motivted for me, trying to move the discussion forward.

I agree with post 81 for obvious reasons.
238 is something i dont agree with. Explain how a person not wanting to be lynched is alignment indicative and not simply playstyle indicative. For all the reasons as to why people think future is scum, this isn't a very good one. Scum eouldnt want to get lynched this early either, imo. There is a reason for a scum future for that reason, that wasnt it.
Also didnt like your reaction in 275 and the subsequent apology in 285 i cant explain why, but something about that condescending tone i cant quite explain, it gives me a feeling that you try to diminish his case cause he might be on to something?

Null for me.
Saki, notscience, and Future will have to come after Game 5 of the ECF.

[Edosurist]

Sorry, but no. Town is never willing to get lynched. Doing that is tantamount to lynching confirmed town (after all, you are confirmed town to yourself).
As town, self-hammering or having a defeatist attitude is the worst thing you could do.
As scum, willing to be lynched can only be justified to deny town information.

Welllllllll, never say never. I self-hammered once to prevent a no-lynch at deadline, providing valuable information to my fellow townies.

Correction then.

Self-hammering as town is always bad unless not hammering would lead to a no-lynch.

And even that's generally frowned upon. goodmorning, could you give me a link to that game?

It was

that kind of game

, if you know what I mean.
Here.

GM, why the sudden unvote of Future when he stated intent to be lynched?

Also, enlighten me on what I dodged, I do not see it

Both of these stand a good chance of being answered at a time that is not now.

Don't worry, I haven't forgotten about you guys. This week has been incredibly

fun

exciting

extremely busy. I thought I had more posts here so I started posting in my other game, but now I see that I only have 9, 10 posts here :/
First chance I get, I'm coming to this game, not my other one.

[goodmorning]

Who do you think is a stronger lynch atm, DP or Future?

Define "stronger lynch".

I'll split it into two parts.

Provide more info

Chance to be scum

More info:
Future - has seemed scummy for a while for all the reasons I've already pointed out BUT at a (very far) stretch he could just be derpTown, as his giving up would lightly suggest (to me) and also his vague sort of non-collected attack on me. I have been known to senselessly tunnel when I shouldn't. With that in mind I kinda want to see him live til tomorrow. But only if he starts fighting, otherwise it's a pointless endeavour.
Dr P - I personally would kind of prefer his lynch over Future's at this point; his recent posts have been somewhat townish just for the reasoning going into them BUT is that enough to overshadow his completely scummy prior play? It kind of is, since I had him pegged as Town early on, but yeah, better lynch than Future at any rate.

Chance to be Scum:
literally 2/9 for each. If you're asking my personal thoughts, the answer is I don't know. I'm going to do a reread ASAP and figure out who the fuck I actually want to vote.

230 also kind of rubs me the wrong way with Edosurist's read. I don't disagree that he's not town, but I find it weird that she's using meta reads solely as her reason.

He doesn't really have that many posts to go off, and I caught on that he was Scum fairly easily in the game I linked you. I feel reasonably comfortable calling him Town based on meta alone for the moment.

Reread ahoy.

[DoctorPepper]

Saki.

Post 70 seems like an overreaction to a vote, much like all votes on him.
I saw the whole "Why do you want my opinion so much post" which is something I've been overlooking. Okay, clarification time, Saki this whole game is about giving your opinion and analyzing everyone else's.
A lot of Saki's posts kinda indicate that he has something to hide? Im getting that vibe. Like the aforementioned "why do you want my opinion?", his read list in 263 where he says on my read "I focus on townies cause they are more likely to slip" which is a weird way to phrase things. Even as a newbie, town has no reason to slip whatsoever, so him being worried about "focusing on newbies who have a higher tendency to slip" is in itself an ironic argument because only scum slip. The thing I find wrong about it is why would a "townie" be concerned with slipping.

87 what reaction were you hoping for when you posted 72?
209 why is being vocal more scum than town?
The reads list pretty much listed people who viewed him as scummy, as being scummy. Yeah, this is a newb town tell for me.
Your case on me:
First of all, the level of interaction I have in this game is pretty much minimal for everyone and Im inclined to think youre justbsaying that cause I voted for you. GM is right, but I hope Im proving her wrong now.
284 how is a condescending response a not very townish reaction when you yourself love tomrespond with jokes like "He's scum because I saw his role PM"?
286 is ironic, he tells Antagon that he is taking things too seriously when he himself has done this a lot, especially early n the day.
290
The part in read? The lynch on you that failed? I hate to break it to you but not all votes are meant to lynch and some votes are meant to pressure. I guess everyone doesnt realizes that my vote on you was and still is pressure. I had otten so behind on the game that I only realized you were going to be lynched when DDC said you were at L-1.
Btw. Intends to be lynched in order to achieve a higher goal is not the same as having the goal of being lynched. This is more of a misunderstanding rather than a misrepresentation.
I claimed you and Future were partaking in a mutual chainsaw defense. You defended him by attacking an attacker in Me, whike he defends how he views you as obvious newbtown by attacking (and subsequently labelling me as sure scum) me.

In short, Im having a hard time classifying whether most of these tells are newbtown or scum. For now, the vote stays, Im being thrown off the whole "higher tendency to slip thing"and the feeling that he's hiding something

[DoctorPepper]

Its only until 79 where GM actually starts to make relevant posts.¹ A bulk of the posts before that involved accusations of coaching, which barely make any sense¹ considering it was an off hand RVS remark¹ which barely counts² as coaching³. Funny thing is, its what spurred her tunneling of her main scum read, Future.⁴ The other part is IC explanation play. Funny thing, why would it strike you as strange when DDC said he played rolecop once, when this set up has no rolecop?⁵

Her whole "there arent any tells that go beyond newb to an actual alignment" in 133 seems logical at first. Then later she contradicts herself by saying in her reads that Slyther is "screaming newbtown".⁶

116 is worded quite awkwardly. "if I were a townie with a scum read on Saki"? Very odd emphasis on "if I were a townie". So, youre not a townie?⁷

I dont quite get how she made her read list.⁸ As I've stated she says Slyther is screaming newb town, while saying Saki is null because "this guy is a newb, hasnt dropped any real alignment tells".⁹ No explanation for The Antagon read.¹⁰ The Edos read makes no sense.¹ If a player has a known "scum meta", wouldnt said player avoid exhibiting traits from said playstyle?¹¹ Its like a read list for the sake of having a read list.¹

Again, I ask, what exactly about Future's willingness to be lynched made¹²

How is attacking players for playstyle "blatant townfishing cred" ?¹³

That being said, her case on Future makes the most sense out of all the cases on Future,¹⁴ such as the questioning of the holes in logic like in 107 by calling Future out for perceived scum tells, which players of both alignments actually do.

In any case, aside from that 116, Im comfortable putting her at null-leaning town to town. She does comment on most of the things happening here, her caseslook solid and they look like theyre legit scumhunting.¹⁵

1. Says you.
2. How do you quantify "barely counting" here?
3. Plus, doesn't even something that "barely counts" still count? So aren't you admitting that my accusations were at least slightly sound?
4. Funny?
5. It doesn't strike you as strange when someone goes out of their way to tell you they've been Scum before?
6. I said there weren't any alignment tells

from Saki

, though I could have worded that sentence much more clearly. Slyther is indeed screaming newbTown.
7. Sentence is intended to be read without emphasis. Indeed, at present I am not a townie with a scumread on Saki.
8. Off the top of my head.
9. The point?
10. On the contrary, stated reason is paranoia.
11. You'll begin to see that there are some things players just can't help displaying as certain alignments, particularly if you play an anon-alt game like Author Mafia.
12. Curious to see the end of this sentence.
13. It's not so much that he was attacking them for playstyle, it's that he was attacking them for not voting (which is largely a playstyle issue) in order to look like do-something Town.
14. I'm flattered. Interesting that you failed to mention my continued lack of answers to you.
15. Interesting.

Not much to say, GM.

Really? Why not?

2. Null point but is it really coaching when the only thing the guy says is "Have confidence in yourself" when it was obvious that said player was timid,
3. No, I think you were grasping at, straws there.
5. Well yes it does, but the point you made was about being the rolecop, which doesnt exist here. Null point.
6. Okay, that clarifies everything. You meant to say "no alignment tells on Saki" rather than "there are no newbtells which arealignment indicative" cause thats how I understood your statement.
7. The emphasis was in the phrase "If I were a townie" when the same sentence could have been easily stated as "If I had a scum read on Saki".
10. Paranoia/gut doesnt exactly register to me
12. What about Future's willingness to be lycnhed led to the unvote?
13. Conceded.
14. Dont understand, please restate.

[DoctorPepper]

Its only until 79 where GM actually starts to make relevant posts.¹ A bulk of the posts before that involved accusations of coaching, which barely make any sense¹ considering it was an off hand RVS remark¹ which barely counts² as coaching³. Funny thing is, its what spurred her tunneling of her main scum read, Future.⁴ The other part is IC explanation play. Funny thing, why would it strike you as strange when DDC said he played rolecop once, when this set up has no rolecop?⁵

Her whole "there arent any tells that go beyond newb to an actual alignment" in 133 seems logical at first. Then later she contradicts herself by saying in her reads that Slyther is "screaming newbtown".⁶

116 is worded quite awkwardly. "if I were a townie with a scum read on Saki"? Very odd emphasis on "if I were a townie". So, youre not a townie?⁷

I dont quite get how she made her read list.⁸ As I've stated she says Slyther is screaming newb town, while saying Saki is null because "this guy is a newb, hasnt dropped any real alignment tells".⁹ No explanation for The Antagon read.¹⁰ The Edos read makes no sense.¹ If a player has a known "scum meta", wouldnt said player avoid exhibiting traits from said playstyle?¹¹ Its like a read list for the sake of having a read list.¹

Again, I ask, what exactly about Future's willingness to be lynched made¹²

How is attacking players for playstyle "blatant townfishing cred" ?¹³

That being said, her case on Future makes the most sense out of all the cases on Future,¹⁴ such as the questioning of the holes in logic like in 107 by calling Future out for perceived scum tells, which players of both alignments actually do.

In any case, aside from that 116, Im comfortable putting her at null-leaning town to town. She does comment on most of the things happening here, her caseslook solid and they look like theyre legit scumhunting.¹⁵

1. Says you.
2. How do you quantify "barely counting" here?
3. Plus, doesn't even something that "barely counts" still count? So aren't you admitting that my accusations were at least slightly sound?
4. Funny?
5. It doesn't strike you as strange when someone goes out of their way to tell you they've been Scum before?
6. I said there weren't any alignment tells

from Saki

, though I could have worded that sentence much more clearly. Slyther is indeed screaming newbTown.
7. Sentence is intended to be read without emphasis. Indeed, at present I am not a townie with a scumread on Saki.
8. Off the top of my head.
9. The point?
10. On the contrary, stated reason is paranoia.
11. You'll begin to see that there are some things players just can't help displaying as certain alignments, particularly if you play an anon-alt game like Author Mafia.
12. Curious to see the end of this sentence.
13. It's not so much that he was attacking them for playstyle, it's that he was attacking them for not voting (which is largely a playstyle issue) in order to look like do-something Town.
14. I'm flattered. Interesting that you failed to mention my continued lack of answers to you.
15. Interesting.

Not much to say, GM.

Really? Why not?

2. Null point but is it really coaching when the only thing the guy says is "Have confidence in yourself" when it was obvious that said player was timid,
3. No, I think you were grasping at, straws there.
5. Well yes it does, but the point you made was about being the rolecop, which doesnt exist here. Null point.
6. Okay, that clarifies everything. You meant to say "no alignment tells on Saki" rather than "there are no newbtells which arealignment indicative" cause thats how I understood your statement.
7. The emphasis was in the phrase "If I were a townie" when the same sentence could have been easily stated as "If I had a scum read on Saki".
10. Paranoia/gut doesnt exactly register to me
12. What about Future's willingness to be lycnhed led to the unvote?
13. Conceded.
14. Dont understand, please restate.

[DoctorPepper]

This notscience is a completely different notscience from what Im used to.

I find it ironic that Im scummy for apparently trying to defend myself and not scumhunting where until recently Saki, whom you have a null read on, has basically defended himself and refused to give opinions. But I guess this is because Im an SE and he's a newbie and Im expected to perform at a higher level or some shit like that.
194 was ironic in the sense that apparently he seemed concerned with my supposed attempt to discredit him because a) I had no such intent and had just asked a question to hunt, which is what I was apparently avoiding and b) he himself made an attempt to discredit me with his last line.
Im guessing 217 is a decent read list. I am questioning exactly why Antagon hasnt raised anything from you, when his early post regarding Saki was essentially similar to kine, with the exception of a lack of a vote. Yet the main scum read on me was because of the whole Saki debacle.
241 yes you mentioned this before I did, the difference being is you only stated that there was fluff, not why you think there was fluff. I had no idea why exactly you had to point it out that you already said it, when you actually didnt.
260 you said the last 3 points were something youve said before. I agree with the last two, but when did you say the first of those last 3 points?
301 Already clarified with my discussion with Gm.

Aside from those, notscience has provided lots of attempts to scumhunt, such as questioning Antagon's response to the Saki scumread, questioning Future with his motives for wanting Antagon over me first. I do disagree with his argument on me, for the reasons I've already stated above, but essentially he's town

[goodmorning]

12. What about Future's willingness to be lycnhed led to the unvote?

Nothing. That's not why I unvoted.

14. Dont understand, please restate.

I have thus far failed to answer a couple of your questions. I don't know why you didn't bring that up.

[DoctorPepper]

You said you would have answered at a better time. So what was the reason for the unvote

[notscience]

I get it Saki is being defensive and kinda withholding, but in one's first game it is KINDA overwhelming. I didn't bring that up because you are an SE, I just know you've been in games before. Trust me, if Saki doesn't catch on by D2 and scum haven't been found, I'll come back to this. However, I didn't like the attack, as I already said. Give those who need it a day to fully understand, go after them later if behaviour continues. No?

[Future]

GM - I'm a lover, not a fighter.

DP still needs to be lynched, though. Posting walls of ISOs is not a town-tell for a couple reasons:

1. It's ridiculously easy for anyone to do, town or scum.
2. It implies that you haven't been scumhunting throughout the game, only that you decided to do something "big" or "grandiose" when someone called you out on it. That's not a scumtell - town can lurk too and use ISOs to catch up, etc. - but nobody should be giving DP town cred for his recent behavior.

Does he still think I'm scum?

[Future]

GM - I'm a lover, not a fighter.

DP still needs to be lynched, though. Posting walls of ISOs is not a town-tell for a couple reasons:

1. It's ridiculously easy for anyone to do, town or scum.
2. It implies that you haven't been scumhunting throughout the game, only that you decided to do something "big" or "grandiose" when someone called you out on it. That's not a scumtell - town can lurk too and use ISOs to catch up, etc. - but nobody should be giving DP town cred for his recent behavior.

Does he still think I'm scum?