Micro 181: Everyone's being watched (Game Over)

[Zionite]

Mala's only had two points against me, and I responded to each. I can't really do much more than that to change her mind unless I get more from her. Other players have simply been more active and thus have more responses. Mala can superficially suspect me without me being her scum buddy. All that supports is that Mala votes based on shallow reads.

My scum read on Rach has been stronger than my read on Mala, and as you can tell I really only interact with players that I'm either 1) attacking, or 2) responding to. So yeah I'm unconcerned with her right now.

Also, what is with players here completely ignoring cases on them? This is frustrating. It's a straight up scum tell to ignore a case on you on MTGS; if it's a bad case then it should be easy to explain why. If I just started ignoring everything directed at me I'd be lynched instantly. Why does Rach get a pass now?

[Malakittens]

...

Dude, it's called hunting. I'm not hunting based on interactions on players before flips. I'm hunting based on what someone does in that moment and if its scummy ill call them out on it.

So you don't like how I scum hunt cool, but you're going to have to learn to deal with it because its how I play. Ill hunt for team member after I get a scum flip.

[Malakittens]

@Horus:

Why did you dodge both Fuzzy's, but Zion's direct role fishing.

[Horus]

Well, you'll notice I'm voting for Zionite.

On the whole, I feel "rolefishing" is exaggerated as a "scumtell" on MafiaScum - I've never caught scum for rolefishing. Maybe it works, but it isn't foolproof and ignores the fact that sometimes Townies analyze softclaims in their scumhunting as well (mentioning it in-thread is sub-optimal play, of course, but sub-optimal play does not make someone scum).

A lot of MafiaScum's "scumtells" are really anti-town-tells, which is a nice thought in an ideal world where Townies are always pro-Town, but that is not this world and I'm more interested in lynching Scum than lynching anti-Town players, since I'm more interested in winning this game than encouraging good play in the next. It isn't quite a null-tell to me, but it's negligible to the point that it wasn't worth berating them both over it again when it's already been addressed and they're both already scumreads.

[Zionite]

It's not so much exaggerated as it is overreacting. Simply stating something about a power role is not the same thing as asking about a players role.

Back to the real issue; horus, you didn't respond to my rebuttal. Why?

[JasonWazza]

Vote Count 1.11

L-1

[4] Zionite: Fuzzybutternut, Wisdom, Miss Destroyer, Horus,
[2] Fuzzybutternut: Does Bo Know, Malakittens,
[1] RachMarie: Zionite,
[1] Miss Destroyer: RachMarie,

Not voting: Grimgroove,

with 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2013-06-07 15:08:42)

[Malakittens]

It's not so much exaggerated as it is overreacting. Simply stating something about a power role is not the same thing as asking about a players role.

Back to the real issue; horus, you didn't respond to my rebuttal. Why?

Oh no but pointing out 'hey guise he has a pr' helps fucken scum out more so people (town) should learn to shut up about it

[fuzzybutternut]

Can we lynch Zio now?

[RachMarie]

brain dead will post more tomorrow

[Zionite]

It's not so much exaggerated as it is overreacting. Simply stating something about a power role is not the same thing as asking about a players role.

Back to the real issue; horus, you didn't respond to my rebuttal. Why?

Oh no but pointing out 'hey guise he has a pr' helps fucken scum out more so people (town) should learn to shut up about it

It can, but if a PR was obvious enough to have town catch on, it's not like scum aren't reading the same game and will miss it if no one says anything. Actually most games I've played have the quiet ones who catch on being the scum rather than the players who point it out first (who are most likely town; why would scum let on they know and draw attention?).

Anyways, I don't feel like going through the whole ceremony. I'm just going to stick with what I know. I'm vanilla town. It doesn't change anything unfortunately, but it'll save us time since we have a deadline to consider. If we're going to lynch me, I want a stern look at Rach for scum and Miss or Mala for the partner. You have my case on Rach (still being ignored, bullshit). Miss Destroyer's recent push is very opportunistic and assumptive; I would think town would be more willing to hear a response to an argument rather than hiding behind a hydra and flying under the radar. Malakittens I'm less sure about; original reads for the most part but never a follow-through; not asking questions and taking an assumptive stance. DBK has been a good investigator and pusher, too ballsy and pushy for scum. I doubt that scum would push that hard on a town wagon knowing it would be a mislynch. Fuzzy is just arrogant, but town. Horus is too susceptible to opinion, but I feel that it's out of second guessing his own reads rather than being opportunistic scum. Grimgroove is using good analytic skills rather than barning other's opinions; town tell to me, but I wish I had more to go on. Wisdom I can't get a read on. He fits rather nicely as scum given this recent push, but everything he says is an original thought rather than a stolen read, so I really don't know.
So here's my reads:
TOWN

DBK
Horus
Fuzzy

Grimgroove

Wisdom

Malakittens

Miss Destroyer
RachMarie

SCUM

So yeah, I'd love to not be the lynch today and follow up on my Rach case, but this being ignored is pissing me off so much that I'm losing interest in trying. I suppose I could press Miss and Mala a bit more, but if they're just going to ignore me too then I've done all I can until I get a decent response. I just don't think it's fair that I offer every player the courtesy of a decent response and the chance to refine their reads while I get treated like a ghost. I at least expect people to be decent enough to acknowledge that I've said something even if it's critical of themselves.
I've easily got the most words said in the game so far and would continue to be a prominent voice for the town, but if no one is going to respond to me then it's kind of a moot point. Maybe it's just my playstyle is too different, I don't know. But it's impossible for anyone to say they can't read me at this point, and it will continue to be that way even if I'm alive for the next few game days. That's more than I can say for some of the other players.

I'm going to bed.

[Ms Marangal]

Zio, if you're VT, why did you ask when to claim and why didn't you claim when you got to L-1 twice?

[Miss Destroyer]

Zio, if you're VT, why did you ask when to claim and why didn't you claim when you got to L-1 twice?

[Miss Destroyer]

I'm vanilla town.

KILL IT WITH FIRE

(goddammit mara I was going to say that )

~

[Does Bo Know]

I come to start a catch-up post and Zionite is at L-1 again. This should be fun.

[Does Bo Know]

Oh God over 100 posts. Let’s go.

Honestly, most of this stuff (from my post where I voted Fuzzy) so far is stuff I don’t really need to pick out individually. Fuzzy is avoiding the point of Mala’s question about why he didn’t point something out earlier.

Zionite then throws in the fact that Fuzzy’s either scum or he’s bad. Didn’t I like, talk about Fuzzy being a typically bad player earlier? At least I might’ve said somewhere that his scumhunting attempts usually suck. So why is Zionite still calling Fuzzy obvious scum?

Wisdom isn’t tunneling, Rach. Goodness.

Zionite’s still making the same mistake: not taking into account Fuzzy could be a bad player, and instead deflects questions back at Wisdom, accusing him of defending Fuzzy. Not liking this. Zionite’s conclusion against Fuzzy in the same post he votes him is stupid. Incredibly weak case, relying only on the concept of “applying one standard to one player, but a different standard to another.” But the case on Rach is stronger in my eyes, yet why isn’t Zionite’s vote there?

And Fuzzy doesn’t have a case on Zionite either, unless you count the shitty 105 that shows subjectivity. His 108 is actually pretty bad after ISO’ing Fuzzy myself again; Fuzzy is normally a fairly defensive player. So why attack a player on being defensive?

At this point, I feel like there’s most likely a scum in {Zionite, Fuzzy}.

376 and 377 together look pretty bad. If Zionite’s starting to show doubt that Fuzzy’s a bad player, why is his vote still there? And why did he have to remember to put “Or you’re scum” in 377?

Phahaha 380 is exactly what I was thinking.

The rest of it is kinda secondary compared to my impending hammer. I really just read through all of it, and none of it has changed my view on Zionite. His scumhunting hasn’t really convinced me it was worth taking the wagon off of him (Fuzzy case was crap, Rach case was basically Wisdom’s case except he tried to make it look like his own), his backing off of Fuzzy seems convenient since no one was listening to his case, and then Zionite tries to get on Wisdom’s side with the Rach read.

And now I feel comfortable hammering, since Zionite claimed (VT after asking claims were at L-2, wut?) and posted his reads in the event he actually does flip town.

VOTE: Zionite

[]===<(^_^)>===[]

[Zionite]

Good luck, town.

[Wisdom]

I don't like DBK's hammer at all.
For one, he didn't let Grimgroove catch up and give his opinion on everything that happened.
Second, it looks like he tried to post reasons and justify the reasons he's hammering, like he felt it was bad doing so.
Third, said reasons look like rehashes of what others have posted.
Finally, saying he thinks there's scum in {Zionite, fuzzy} is likely laying down groundwork to push fuzzy after Zionite. Lining up lynches.

[Zionite]

And there's this whole thing where people just assume they know their target's mindset instead of asking.

[RachMarie]

wait I had not yet caught up jeez why did you hammer already DBK? I cant wait til I have my own computer again grrr...


Ok some quick points before the thread is locked up....

My town reading of DBK has gone down somewhat with that hammer...

Wis I feel is towny. He is pushing on peeps and his reasons for thinking peeps are scummy are sound and have merit. He is wrong about me but still he had a good case so it does not feel like hes just trying to get get mislynches going.

Zio on the other hand..... bah I think he is scumz. I was going to declare intent to hammer (something DBK SHOULD have done )

I do not see Zio and Fuzzy being scum budz though it does not feel like scum distancing. So if we are right about Zio being scumz, and I think we are, then Fuzzy is probably Town, the inverse though is not necessarily so (if Zio flps Town that does not mean for sure that Fuzzy is scumz). This does not feel like the scum Fuzzy I met in Greater Idea Mafia. (Where he fake claimed Seer).

Horus is probably town. His posts feel very much like a Town PoV.

Need to take a good look at Mara and Miss D.

[Zionite]

"If the case against you is good, simply ignore it and call them scum"

[RachMarie]

Good case does not always mean correct, it just means so on so genuinely finds me scummy...

[Does Bo Know]

I don't like DBK's hammer at all.
For one, he didn't let Grimgroove catch up and give his opinion on everything that happened.
Second, it looks like he tried to post reasons and justify the reasons he's hammering, like he felt it was bad doing so.
Third, said reasons look like rehashes of what others have posted.
Finally, saying he thinks there's scum in {Zionite, fuzzy} is likely laying down groundwork to push fuzzy after Zionite. Lining up lynches.

- Taking it for granted that Grimgroove wouldn't convince me away from Zionite.
- Posted reasons for hammering because those were my reasons for hammering.
- it's hard not to mimic others when there have been multiple pages of material commenting on things I was thinking.
- Why did you assume I'm going to target Fuzzy tomorrow if we aren't even sure about Zionite's flip yet?

[RachMarie]

Why did you not declare Intent to Hammer first?

[Zionite]

Good case does not always mean correct, it just means so on so genuinely finds me scummy...

Then why wouldn't you show me how it's incorrect unless you can't?

[RachMarie]

umm its incorrect because I am Town not scumz, but it is a good case because it shows he is trying to scum hunt not just go for me cause I tend to be an easy lynch.