Open 501: Stacking the Deck of Power (Game Over)

[Nachomamma8]

fitz

[havingfitz]

WAIT FITZ ARE YOU DOWN WITH LYNCHING SYRNANAS

Idk...possibly. I've been so busy debating my suspicions of Sakura against the people voting me I haven't had a chance to think about others.

[Nachomamma8]

WAIT FITZ ARE YOU DOWN WITH LYNCHING SYRNANAS

Idk...possibly. I've been so busy debating my suspicions of Sakura against the people voting me I haven't had a chance to think about others.

sakuras not scum and i don't give a shit about them
let's do this

[havingfitz]

fitz

What?

You don't care about them who?

[Does Bo Know]

Nacho makes a point about Syryana: he's willing to joke with me or Tammy and such, but when it comes to Nacho accusing him, Syryana gets serious...hm.

@Fitz: The Nacho thing came up because of this:

@Syryana...I didn't think the answers were acceptable/made sense...i.e. I didn't think they answered my questions. Which apparently Sakura agreed with. And btw...her second response was unacceptable as well.

She says she didn't want to risk a quicklynch and yet she had issue with me not adding to someone's wagon.

And as for her initial answer to the second question...it was not true...the very next vote after Sakura's first vote was by Chenoan who used a RV reason very similar to mine. So Sakura's answers were poor and inaccurate.

I assumed that the bolded statement referred to this post:

Actually it does havingfitz, maybe you should re-read them.

@DBK: My bad, for some reason i thought this was a 9 player game (5 to lynch) then went over it again and noticed it's actually 7 to lynch, so it wouldn't hurt to move my vote over there.
VOTE: Nacho
Other than that tho, doesn't that relieve all pressure off him at this point?

Of course, that was an assumption, and I'm sorry for making it, but I don't know what other quicklynch you would've been talking about.

I don't know for sure if I used "strawmanning" right, but basically I think you're exaggerating your points against Sakura for the reasons that she's scum.

I did mean 35 posts, sorry. And I guess to you I'm "sadly mistaken" and you must be sure there's a scum on the wagon because, IMO, a reasonable townie should at least consider the chance the wagon was town driven. You aren't considering that chance.

Did you honestly think when I said "Let's get Fitz" I actually meant I was going to lynch you today? It's clear in the context that I was deciding whom to pressure, not whom to lynch.

I'm torn between pressuring Chenoan or Fitz first...hm...
Let's get Fitz.
VOTE: havingfitz
I want to hear his thoughts on what Syr and Tammy have said first.

Let’s pressure someone. (Oo oo…I’m under pressure…)
Let’s get Fitz (ie “get” me as in lynch me? Or is that pressure? To do what?)
Vote Fitz….
So when you say you want my thoughts first….to what does the first apply to? Some action on your part? My potential lynching?

These are the assumptions I mean. You considered the option of "getting" you as lynching you, when it's 100% plainly obvious and clear that I didn't want to lynch you because of the sentence

right above it.

And then the very last "question" in this set is "My potential lynching" which, again, is an assumption that I had already wanted to lynch you when the sentence

right above the "Let's get Fitz" statement exists

.

I will provide one-liners for reasons you're probably scum, Fitz, and in return, may I ask you provide one-liners as to why you think Sakura is scum?

- Claiming Sakura is scum for reasons I don't see true. (Unless I got caught in all the walls you posted, and I might've missed something in a sentence or two.)
- Showing confidence that the wagon on Mutley was quick because it was scum-driven, not considering it could actually have all town on it.

I don't have time to post anything more, but next time I'll try to talk about other players.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.07

havingfitz (5) - Syryana, Sakura Hana, Tammy, Does Bo Know, Tierce
Chenoan (3) - Mutleyddmc, dragonfly, Lazurial
Mutleyddmc (1) - Chenoan
Sakura Hana (1) - havingfitz
Syryana (1) - Nachomamma8

Not Voting (1) - awestfie

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

The deadline is Wednesday, June 12, 2013, at 12:30 AM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2013-06-12 00:30:00).

[havingfitz]

@DBK...

No...your assumption on perceived comments from me wrt Sakura voting Nacho is wrong.  My quicklynch comments bolded in Post 124 are in regards to Sakura's Post 26.

As for my points against Sakura...how am I exagerating them?  And if I am suspicious of someone and willing to pursue their lynch...I'm not going to underemphasize my case on them.  So...?

As for a scum driven wagon on Mutley...nowhere do I say it unequivocally is scum driven.  I don't infer any absolutes with it.  So whay would you think I'm not "consider that chance" that the Mutley wagon isn't scum driven?  I say I "predict" the Mutley wagon has a scum or two on it.  Do I have to state the opposing possibility exists for every suspicion I bring up?  I would think that is a given short of an investigation results (and that is only an example and is not intended to be construed as rolefishing).  I'm basing my opinion on my own experiences.

As for your "Let's get Fitz" comment I only bring that up because you are saying I'm making the assumption that you are out to get me.  While that was not on my mind when I asked you for clarification about the last part of your Post 115, I do find it amusing that your interest in "getting me" would be an issue consider your comments and your vote on me.  off the top of my head...those comments being:

"Lets get Fitz"
"Vote:Fitz"

and

"I like Fitz as a top scum candidate"

How can you deny you are "out to get me?"

Since you are saying "Lets get Fitz" & "Vote:Fitz" don't imply a desire to lynch me...what changed between that comment and  this one - ""I like Fitz as a top scum candidate?"

So I am scum fypov because you don't agree with my case on Sakura and because of my confidence that Mutley's wagon was scum driven?

That ridiculous.  If you don't want to agree with my case on Sakura that's fine...but the second reason makes no sense at all (as explained ealier in this post).  Let me ask this...assuming Mutley turns out to be town of course..

.do you think a 0 to L-2 wagon early on D1 in ~4 hours is more or less likely to have scum on it ("one or two" as I described it)?

 

As for my reasons for intially voting, and maintaining my vote on, Sakura...

- Initially reason was for the perceived contradiction in her expecting me to vote a wagon while she herself failed to (and pressure).

- Her willingness to vote Nacho for nothing more than pressure and put him essentially in the same position (L-3) that she was averse to putting someone in when she excused/defended her first vote to me.

- I didn't care for her Post 67 insinuation that someone (turned out to be Mutley) was saying she was scummy for speaking honestly (which was followed by my popular line of questions to establish how silly this statement was and therefore that it was a baseless accusation...ie suspect).

- What is essentially an OMGUS Vote on me.

And more recently:

- Her characterization of Chenoan based on four posts ????

- Her recent awkward push on Lazurial...

[Lazurial]

@Tierce: My bad... I must have gotten lost among a few people there. The question that was repeatedly posed was that I was accusing chenoan of hypocrisy or something of the sort.

In the future, I'll use terms as they were meant, regardless of how they were used towards me, I'm sorry for any confusion it may have caused.

I see the mistake in tipping my hand so early now... I wanted to try and lynch him before he could use that hand, but that poses a lot of risk.

He went on to troll Syryana, I assumed it would be a bit of a scum hunt, and it did to some degree. Syryana's reaction to his trolling was uncharacteristically serious.

[Sakura Hana]

Hey fitz, since you love this post so much imma point one thing you keep overlooking then.

Ops, my bad, you're right.

Because there was still quite a lot of people who hadn't posted their RVS

and i didnt want to risk a wagon building so fast that the scum could jump in and quicklynch, is that a better answer for you?

Now where's the contradiction?, iirc by the time i added pressure to Nacho's wagon everyone had already voted had they not?

[havingfitz]

Hey fitz, since you love this post so much imma point one thing you keep overlooking then.

Ops, my bad, you're right.

Because there was still quite a lot of people who hadn't posted their RVS

and i didnt want to risk a wagon building so fast that the scum could jump in and quicklynch, is that a better answer for you?

Now where's the contradiction?, iirc by the time i added pressure to Nacho's wagon everyone had already voted had they not?

1) your comments above are not pertaining to your vote on Nacho, they're about you not voting Bert or Lazurial; and,
2) since you brought your Nacho vote up...there were still three players who hadn't voted (granted..Nacho was one of the them).

So who's overlooking things?

[Nachomamma8]

The Former Syrnanas:

Worst post of the game thus far. Completely defeats the point of a pressure vote if you call it a pressure vote.

Mutley is a troll. Sometimes things he posts are a little lighthearted, random, light to handle. Syryana swung the fuck on that anti-town, hard to read post like a sledgehammer. Town Syryana would want to use opening posts to buddy a bit, troll a bit, do random aggro things and yell at people. But here he attacked a weak player, defended strong players and took two wallposts to do it.

Oh god, I was trying to forget about that game.

Good point on the quickhammer though, I don't think that two of the three not voting people will waltz in and derphammer like that game, but better safe than sorry.

Tierce he respects you as a player but not this much. He switched over so easily from this target he attacked SO VERY STRONGLY onto a suspect he moved onto before.

Tierce wall and Tammy wall are good walls.

Weak weak. Tammy's wall was pretty boring. Tierce's was not yet obvtown but it was OK I guess.

Nooooooooooooo, not my Bert!

Now you're here to spice up my life, I can't do it without you

I call him out for not trolling, he immediately starts trolling. Which is odd timing and he wasn't trolling in the same way he

could

.

Talk to me, tell my why I'm scum

Tell my why fitz is town too while you're at it

drops this when i ignore him and keeps trolling
he wanted to talk to me and i wasn't playing ball, so he appeases me?

You haven't done anything for me to get paranoid about, except where you're calling fitz town

nah.
nah. if he just didn't feel like trolling, it would mean we weren't on the same page because he was being weird.
and he would say "sorry nacho i wanted to have a cool towngame". instead, he called me paranoid but took absolutely zero position on me and that was boring, lame, scummy. The trend towards easy lynches wasn't good. I didn't like the transitions from easy lynch to sheeping Tierce without real interactions with her like "you're so amazing, Tierce!" or "Tierce, I really wish you were scum but you aren't so we'll have to deal with being town together" etc to trolling with Nacho. None of it has a thought process, and is mostly him just adapting to new threats that come by (first Tierce, then me).

[Chenoan]

So I fell asleep while trying to do things. Oops. A lot happened last night, too. So. Gonna catch up and respond as I read through. Apologies if some of my questions have already been asked/answered.

What are confusing about my reactions?

Essentially exactly what Laz said in 97

If you have no idea what's going on, why/how do you have two town reads? What about my/DBK's play makes you town read us particularly?

Can you go point out the particular posts/reasons you find Mutley to be scummy?

Because you two are the only ones making sense.
And I thought I already did that? Mutleys actions were freaking absurd. And it was only page 4. So. Not a lot to go off other than that.

100 - Is mutley saying that it's stupid to think of him as town?

@Chenoan: My case is that you're being so careful to announce how you hate wagons, before hopping on one.

... Uhm. K. It wasn't a matter of careful. It was a matter of legitimate concern. But okay O_o

I wasn't dissociating from my actions. I was pointing out how usually I don't do that, but Mutley was acting SO absurd I was going against my general opinion on early wagons.

I do not think a wagon going from zero to L-2 in a little over a page (35 posts) and in less than 4 hours is normal. It screams mislynch wagon to me. If it was later in the game and people’s suspicions were better founded…or there was some sort of mitigating evidence towards someone…sure…quicklynch away. But in the early stages of D1? No. It is not null. It might not be definitive but it is a lot stronger than null IMO. It screams mislynch wagon to me. If it was later in the game and people’s suspicions were better founded…or there was some sort of mitigating evidence towards someone…sure…quicklynch away. But in the early stages of D1? No. It is not null. It might not be definitive but it is a lot stronger than null IMO.

I hate early wagons a lot because they're generally baseless, but in most cases they do not end in a lynch at all, let alone a mislynch. Maybe I just haven't played enough games, but yea. This wagon wasn't baseless.

Is the main case against fitz because his RVS vote was on a unique person and not on a wagon? O_o Like really? That's a BS reason to be pushing someone.

Okay nvm. Tierce's argument in 127 makes a lot of sense. Hmmm...

The whole thing about willful vs non-willful... what even. That's super snarky and uncalled for. It's also really snarking on something insignificant rather than addressing the accusation. Dunno why I didn't catch it until reading through Tammy's post.

because clearly I'm not making any headway here. I'll pack the case up and save it for later, if I get more against him.

...giving up because people didn't like your wagon? What even.

The town is strong in this game. At least assuming my budding town reads are correct.

More coming soon. plzhold.

[havingfitz]

^ I didn't call Mutley's wagon baseless and it didn't have to achieve a quick lynch to be suspect IMO.

Does my spoilered response to Tierce on the previous page make sense?

[Chenoan]

I like how I've made like four posts and yet 7 pages in people are still after me. lolwat. Wow.

Maybe I'm over-reading it. Maybe this is just a bad argument. It's still where I'm reading him.

Laz keeps self cancelling every argument, after calling me out for supposedly doing the same.

163 - Full agreement with Sakura here. Glad someone else pointed this out already.

Laz vs. Nacho is interesting. I really like Nacho's point in 177. Laz seems too eager to please and appease. Dislike.

I'm not sure how to say anything more without making myself look guilty, something to work on I guess.

So... why are you contradicting your statement from 160?

Someone town shouldn't have to worry about covering for themselves later as long as they're honest and genuine in their intent.

Nacho vs. syr. I don't. What. I'm assuming there's a bromanship there that I don't know about or something? o.o

Oh man Tierce already posted my Laz point.

I see the mistake in tipping my hand so early now... I wanted to try and lynch him before he could use that hand, but that poses a lot of risk.

Wanted to try to lynch me based on 4 posts? I've heard of lynch all lurkers, but really? There's no indication here of trying to investigate. You seem to have already decided - or rather

assigned

- that I'm scum.

Not digging the Fitz wagon, definitely digging a vote on Laz. Gonna wait til I'm done catching up though...

^ I didn't call Mutley's wagon baseless and it didn't have to achieve a quick lynch to be suspect IMO.

Does my spoilered response to Tierce on the previous page make sense?

I know you didn't. The statement was in reference to my own statement about early wagons. Like 5 seconds ago. Also I see the argument for early quick wagons being bad, like I said I hate them, but I don't see anything from you that's arguing anything but the speed of the wagon and Sakura.

K. done catch up. Sliding scale and vote time. plzhold.

[Chenoan]

TOWNISH

Tierce
Tammy
Does Bo Know
Nachomamma8
awestfie
dragonfly
Sakura Hana
Syryana
Mutleyddmc
havingfitz
Lazurial

SCUMMISH

So basically leaning town pretty hard on Tierce & Tammy. Kinda leaning town on DBK but more recent activity would help solidify that (#hypocrisy for asking for activity after being inactive.)

Kinda leaning town on Nacho a little bit based on the recent actual case against Syryana... but I dunno how seriously to take that case because so. much. trolling. But it seems really logical and town-oriented.

Mainly null on dragonfly and Sakura.

Slight scum lean of Syr based on Nacho's argument. My town read of him had slipped slightly as I read on. But. I dunno. This read is really weak. And too dependent on trusting my Nacho read which is also really weak.

Still leaning scum on Mutley. But he hasn't done much for a while really.

Stronger scum reads on Fits and Laz. But something about the fitz wagon feels really off.

So.

VOTE: Laz

[Does Bo Know]

UNVOTE: havingfitz

Sorry to do this, but I'm gonna be even less active in Mafia for a while.

Mod: Replace me please

[dragonfly]

Bye, Bo

Mala, I don't really think that reaction was warranted by those 3 posts

[dragonfly]

Why did I think I was in that other game

[Tammy]

Tammy's wall was pretty boring.

I try to be spicy but sometimes I'm just on fail mode.

YOU'RE WELCOME.

Call me boring again.

[Nachomamma8]

Tammy's wall was pretty boring.

I try to be spicy but sometimes I'm just on fail mode.

YOU'RE WELCOME.

Call me boring again.

i listen to my own music while i post, thank you.
boring!
come play the game where we talk about our reads!

[Tammy]

Okay so, the Nacho meta question for Tierce. No, we talked a bit about DV after the Yoloville game but not Nacho. That I remember. But, right now my brain is curled up in the closet begging me to stop trying to think. So the only thing I remember from Empire's meta on Nacho is what he said in Yoloville, where he said that Nacho is more mechanical or less emotional as scum, and Nacho replied that it was something that he was trying to work on in his scum game.

As far as how I read Nacho though? He's one of those players that I don't feel close to confident in my read until day 3 or so. I've mostly considere him a mid-to-late game player, one that kind of doesn't do a whole lot in the first couple days but then shines after a couple lynches and flips. I don't know if that's because we've mostly played in larges together, but I know I've almost always suspected him a bit early game until he's gotten really engaged (and then sometimes I'm just paranoid). But, I *think* the only time he's been scum when we've played together is Yoloville.

But, he's trolling and just generally seeming to have fun, which looks more townish to me. I've not seen him just trolololol before so he's what is it called when someone isn't behaving how you expect them too? Because that's the word I mean. There was something else too. OH his statement that Empire would be town reading him right now, feels genuine. Especially since we all know Empire will probably be replacing in this game at some point, now point?, so the confidence feels read. It doesn't feel like when DV was trying to use Empire to save his skin in Yoloville at the end. Does that make sense?

[Tammy]

i listen to my own music while i post, thank you.
boring!
come play the game where we talk about our reads!

If that didn't teach you, maybe this will.

How about I play the Tammylicious game where I get some sleep tonight, pick my brain up off the floor, and deal with this tomorrow? Cuz that's what the card I just drew from the deck says.

[Nachomamma8]

How about I play the Tammylicious game where I get some sleep tonight, pick my brain up off the floor, and deal with this tomorrow? Cuz that's what the card I just drew from the deck says.

you almost know the perfect way to my heart
almost.

[dragonfly]

Chen's recent posts really make me question my scumread on him and I like his argument against Laz that he is trying to put his toes in the water, but every time it gets choppy he jumps out
VOTE: Laz

[Tammy]

How about I play the Tammylicious game where I get some sleep tonight, pick my brain up off the floor, and deal with this tomorrow? Cuz that's what the card I just drew from the deck says.

you almost know the perfect way to my heart
almost.

Fear not! Tammylicious is a drinking game.