Kingmaker II-Game Over

[pablito]

Ok, so the progression of SV's top three goes as such:

Top 2: Glork, Yos, and any lurker would be ideal.

Remove Glork from my LOS.

My top: I can see a MoS execution.
My 2: CTD.
And like before, lurkers.

Last addition to the MIDDLE of my list (it's MoS, XYZ, any lurker): LL.

I was confused by the mention of middle and I got confused with the whole progression. Now I see it. And considering that SV did mention a MoS+LL scum pair in early D3, it seems to be a logistical progression.

ake a look at open 4, where IH (scum) posted a whole chunk of long posts and PBPAs as proof that long posts aren't necessarily pro-town.

LL: About the bit you quoted and FOS'd yourself, I did use it in my player analysis.

I'll shut up about MoS till he says something.

Possible scum-pairing: LL + MoS.

Zindaras (reference post 1154): Quit using meta-gaming as an excuse for not getting Pooky. Your defense for thinking pooky's long post is town is meta-gamish. (As in, you don't know his playstyle because you've never played with him before.) Meta-gaming is too unreliable.

I'm still curious as to why keeping in the generic "lurker" is important for SV to keep in the top 3. SV has explained fairly well why Glork and Yos fell out of the top 3, but I think that CTD wasn't well explained yet. I'd like SV to answer why she hasn't put a top 3 of MoS, LL and CTD then. Why does the lurker beat out CTD? I think that's why I call it a bit too convenient, but not too far enough to call it scummy.

I'll have to look into this possible MoS-LL pairing that SV has brought up, actually.

[spectrumvoid]

Because CTD hasn't been around the whole site, not that he's been lurking in specifically this game only. The same cannot be said for the other lurkers. And I don't see the point of putting CTD on my list, when we don't have a replacement to answer anything. Obviously, I don't want to execute people without giving them a chance to respond.

[pablito]

Would CTD qualify as "any lurker" then? I'm still wondering why it has to be "lurkers in general" rather than "CTD and Nightson are lurkers, and probably them". I'm not asking you to clarify, but what's the reason for not singling out any specific lurkers?

[Mastermind of Sin]

...

That post made no sense to me, MoS. How is it you conclude that no matter what, the scum are "better off killing the Kingmaker"?

I would like to tentatively add pj to my top 3 list. The whole point of that post was to confuse the scum and make them assume that they WERE better off killing the kingmaker, even if that wasn't entirely the case. I figured an intelligent protown player would realize this and go along. He's nowhere near Dead Rikimaru on my list, but he's closer, pending a full reread of his posts. I'm not sure when that'll happen, since I'm having RL issues lately.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

So, whenever you make a dumb post, we have to assume you're doing it to confuse the scum? And why would a pro-town player specifically be more likely to understand its "true purpose".

New Top 3:
CrashTextDummie
MoS
Phoebus

[spectrumvoid]

To clarify: lurkers for me mean specifically to people who I know are on-site, and are active in other mafia games. I've definitely seen Nightfall around. CTD isn't around at all. I don't want CTD for now, till we get a replacement for him, or something else happens.

[Yosarian2]

I figured an intelligent protown player would realize this and go along.

Heh...so, you thought the pro-town players would all understand what you were trying to say, but that the scum would be dumb enough to just go along with it and follow your advice about who they should kill?

[pablito]

Hmm, I'd like to defend SV at the moment. The way that her top 3 has progressed has been very natural and comes from a pro-town stance. The way that she dropped CTD and put in LL in the stead went in a logical unstated progression. And furthermore, SV had to be prompted to recognize how CTD fell off the list. I feel that a SV-scum would have simply went from a top 3 of "MoS-CTD-lurker" to "Mos-LL-CTD" or would have dropped the lurker part and went back to either Yos or Glork. The way that SV's rotating through suspects, well I feel it's coming from a healthy pro-town aggressive stance (to use those words from MBL). When SV poked Glork, I felt it was an appropriate time to do so and even I harbored some doubts about Glork when it happened.

I know it's kind of a weak-defense, but I'm trying to put into words how my gut feeling is working at the moment. And I'm trying to say that SV's actions reflect the thought process of a natural progression. I often find that scum do not always properly back up their arguments and build up toward the end result. But I feel that SV's progression builds up properly. While that's not always indicative of pro-towniness, I'm going to say so. And that's especially because I remember off-hand PJ voting for SV for being strong on the Glork-provoking early on.

Also, I checked last vote count, I want to

unvote: Nightson

because that's obviously not helping him to come back.

In fact,

mod

could we get a vote count?

[BrianMcQueso]

I'd like to be frank with the town for a moment. Finding players to keep this game active has been very draining for me. There have been 14 replacements thus far. This game started with 24 players, and more than half of you still alive did not start this game with us. There's five more people that need to be replaced* (although two of them might come back). It's not easy to find replacements, especially on this level.

*My prod/replace list:

Phoebus (replace)
CrashTextDummie (prod)
Der Hammer (prod)
Nightfall (replace)
Nightson (replace)

I'm not sure if it's a design flaw of the game that drives people to inactivity, or if it's due to the multiple crashes the site has endured, or if it's something else entirely, but it's been rough for Kingmaker II. I would like to extend my heartfelt thanks to those of you who have kept this game incredibly active. Your devotion to the game has counterbalanced the constant need for new players and kept this game alive.

VOTE COUNT

*King Dead Rikimaru*

Cogito Ergo Sum (1): CrashTextDummie
CrashTextDummie (2):
Der Hammer (2):
Fritzler w/ Mjolnir (1): Nightson
Glork (1): Mastermind of Sin, Fritzler, Der Hammer, LuckayLuck
KaleiÐoscøpe (0): pablito
Lowell (0): spectrumvoid, CrashTextDummie
LuckayLuck (4): spectrumvoid, Yosarian2
Mastermind of Sin (3):
Nightfall (0):
Nightson (3):
Olio (1): pablito, LuckayLuck, Nightson
pablito (2): LuckayLuck, olio, petroleumjelly, RafK, Mastermind of Sin
petroleumjelly (1): Spectrumvoid, Phoebus, Der Hammer, LuckayLuck
Phoebus (3):
RafK (1): spectrumvoid
spectrumvoid (4): Glork
Yosarian2 (2): Phoebus, Cogito Ergo Sum, Mastermind of Sin
Zindaras (0): Yosarian2, Phoebus

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

The King executing CTD would slightly alleviate the problem. Just sayin'

[Zindaras]

I'm really really sorry and feel really really guilty about continued non-assistance in this game.

*sad*

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

*slaps Zindaras with a trout*

If you're feeling guilty, then contribute and rid yourself of that guilt. We don't care for apologies.

[petroleumjelly]

The whole point of that post was to confuse the scum and make them assume that they WERE better off killing the kingmaker, even if that wasn't entirely the case. I figured an intelligent protown player would realize this and go along.

Okay, that is stupid. I tried to follow your logic on how you came to the conclusion that "no matter what, the scum should kill the Kingmaker". It seemed really dumb to me and made no sense, and I wanted to see you explain it.

It also doesn't make sense how you're saying a pro-town person would have "realized you were trying to confused the scum". This makes a number of bad assumptions.

1.) That the scum would listen to your explanation even though you didn't even give reasons (read: unlikely)
2.) The the scum are stupid enough to not think about things on their own, and instead listen to you (read: unlikely)
3.) That all pro-town people with intelligence would somehow realize what you were trying to do as you claim, while

also

somehow thinking #1 and #2 are the case (read: highly unlikely)
4.) That not only would pro-town people with intelligence see #3, but that they would further help you push your 'agenda' (read: highly unlikely)

I don't make a habit of assuming I am playing against stupid scum. I also don't make a habit of pushing stupid agendas ("the scum should kill the Kingmaker no matter what!") when I know they are stupid. Even if I thought you were purposely trying to get scum to follow you (which sounds hokey to me), I would not be somebody to fit into #4. And furthermore:

5.) It doesn't make sense to say I'm suspicious for saying your post made no sense. Hypothetically, if I am scum, all I would have to do is

point out the exact same thing to my scum-partners at night

. Why try to "signal" things (especially about something so inconsequential) during the day when I could say the exact same thing at nighttime?

What an awful post.

FoS: Mastermind of Sin

. I'll have to review your analysis posts later.

[Yosarian2]

The King executing CTD would slightly alleviate the problem. Just sayin'

Or Phoebus.

[RafK]

Advocating the King executing an inactive because they're inactive sounds more pro-scum than anything (especially since you know the person being replaced is hardly going to show up to defend themselves!).

Rikimaru, I have found my additional people to vote for your consideration. Bear in mind that SV is still my #1 suspect.

vote Yosarian2. vote Cogito Ergo Sum

.

[olio]

But at the same time, I wonder how much of the voting is going on because no one understands LL's MO and are attacking his playstyle rather than his level of scumminess.

MO as Modus Operandi? In my opinion proxying equals to "not thinking with your own brains" as well as "not wanting to put in an effort" and I view those things anti-town ways of play.

[spectrumvoid]

Remove generic lurker from my list, I'll come up with somene else (reasons below):

Skimming through, more later (brain-dead from school )

I don't understand why nightfall and phoebus have to be replaced, when they're clearly still on-site. Maybe if we begged them to come back? The rest I'm not so sure of. Mod: Would you consider mod-killing? I don't think it'll be easy to get that many replacements for a game on page 55. I have no idea how to maintain balance and all that, but mod-killing is something I could live with provided the game's still balanced. Reason being we have 5 people I have little read on, other than lurking = scum tell, but that isn't true if they're going to be replaced.

[BrianMcQueso]

Toaster Streudel

replaces Nightson! Welcome aboard, delicious pastry!

[Yosarian2]

Advocating the King executing an inactive because they're inactive sounds more pro-scum than anything (especially since you know the person being replaced is hardly going to show up to defend themselves!).

Rikimaru, I have found my additional people to vote for your consideration. Bear in mind that SV is still my #1 suspect.

vote Yosarian2. vote Cogito Ergo Sum

.

You know, not paying attention is scummy.

If you'd payed any attention at all to anything that's happened this game, if you've read any of my posts from, like, ever, you'd know that I want the king to execute Phoebus because I think Phoebus is scum. Duh.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Advocating the King executing an inactive because they're inactive sounds more pro-scum than anything (especially since you know the person being replaced is hardly going to show up to defend themselves!).

Firstly, killing lurkers is pretty much pro-town.

Secondly, CTD is my number one target for execution anyhow.

[Toaster Strudel]

I am replacing Nightson.

[petroleumjelly]

*nonchalantly munches on Toaster Strudel* Mmm. It's Hershey's chocolate flavor.

[Toaster Strudel]

You chewed off my brain so it will be a challenge for me to understand how the voting works in this game. I'll have to think with all my frosting.

[RafK]

Advocating the King executing an inactive because they're inactive sounds more pro-scum than anything (especially since you know the person being replaced is hardly going to show up to defend themselves!).

Rikimaru, I have found my additional people to vote for your consideration. Bear in mind that SV is still my #1 suspect.

vote Yosarian2. vote Cogito Ergo Sum

.

You know, not paying attention is scummy.

If you'd payed any attention at all to anything that's happened this game, if you've read any of my posts from, like, ever, you'd know that I want the king to execute Phoebus because I think Phoebus is scum. Duh.

But that's not the reasoning you were using there to get him executed.

[Yosarian2]

But that's not the reasoning you were using there to get him executed.

If you'd been paying any attention to this game, you would have known that the fact that he was going to have to be replaced was the least of the reasons I wanted him executed.