Mini 403: 101 MPH Mafia - Game Over

[Jack]

Kenji, sounds like you want to discourage discourage discussion and support no lynch? In god's name why?

[Jack]

[
you misunderstand. both parties would act the same in VOTING TO SURVIVE as adele did. im not making a general statement for the whole game. you have still failed to respond.

why would townies not vote to survive as adele did?

If you really have no idea who the other person is, they could just as likely have a pro town role as be scum. I do find this thinking kind of scummy, voting to save yourself isn't something you do

unless

you think the other person might not be town. Scum are the only ones who gladly want the other person lynched.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

regardless of my role, if it comes down to a choice between me dying and someone else, i want them dead and me alive. its just basic survival.

its funny that you and patrick cant see that... i guess maybe it really is just a difference in playstyle.

[Yamahako]

Unvote, Vote Kenji

. No Lynch? Seriously? In no way would no lynch help this situation out. Random voting is more likely to get us scum than a townie at this stage - no lynch guarantees us losing a townie. Maybe later in the game no lynch is a prudent move when you have protected investigation roles - but day one? no. At least the other plan had a chance of grabbing scum.

The real reason that plan isn't as good is because if we have 2 or 3 people sitting at an identical number of votes (as will tend to happen with the mafia) then someone will die - but no one will be accountable. Watching someone jump ship at the end gives you information - having everyone hold fast to their vote - but it meaning nothing since there is no hammer and a random person out of a select set being the one to die gives out little information to glean for clues as to who is the mafiate.

Discuss, consensus, and vote would be the most logical course of action - we should use FOS to show who we would be willing to vote for (like say a list of suspicion) and get rid of the person highest on our lists. Since this game moves fast - if we have enough people giving analysis and people clearly stating their suspicions then we have something to hold people too.

[Jack]

You put your survival over a town win?

[Jack]

EBWOP: that was @omg

[Jack]

I really think Ectomancer should have the most votes, not Adele.

[Yamahako]

regardless of my role, if it comes down to a choice between me dying and someone else, i want them dead and me alive. its just basic survival.

its funny that you and patrick cant see that... i guess maybe it really is just a difference in playstyle.

Its pretty obvioius omg, but the manner in which it was done would be the deciding factor. Did the person give information regarding his switch? Was it helpful to the town? These questions would determine how the action was viewed. However, once the two people are voting for each other - then the plan DOES work - since neither of the two people on the chopping block can affect the final outcome.

[Patrick]

why would townies not vote to survive as adele did?

please answer that. you had no reason to infer suspicion from her post and imo you know that. tbh it sounds more like you are being stubborn and cant accept your mistake than a scum trying to get out of it... but either way it should be known that your point is wrong

I thought it odd to be thinking of survival in that way at such a very early stage. I assure you, I'm not acting stubborn, if I'm arguing this it's because I think it's worth it.

yes. a variety of different ways. and imo smart scum would act in the way i described in the above quote, which is why i found it scummy.

A legit disagreement I suppose. I would wager you don't know much about how I might play as scum though.

my recent post should fix that up. and i dont think im that awesome at this game.... but i think im quite a few levels up from the majority of people on this particular site. i pre-empt things like that because i know that so many players here will go.... 'i dont understand... he must be scummy' and we go off on ridiculous tangents

It's noted I'm experienced enough not to just say 'Hmm this guy is weird, I don't understand, let's just kill him cuz it's easy'.

[Patrick]

unvote, vote pablito for that mass of text on page 2, it screamed "I'm being helpful, don't lynch me" to me... aka a scum tell.

This is horrible logic. Promoting discussion is a pro town action right. Doubly so in a game like this where we're under a fast deadline. So if pablito does something that appears pro town, and is generally considered pro town, then why can't he just be pro town? Why do you automatically give him this scummy motive for no reason?

[Yamahako]

Jack being asured of your town-ness would mean that you would want to avoid your own death as much as possible as that's one CONFIRMED townie you're keeping alive. I could see an investigative roll letting themselves die over another to assure a town victory if they know people are gonna kill off the doc (for example), but that would be a rare occurance.

[Ectomancer]

Hmm, I still don't agree with Adele's plan. There tends to naturally be a split wagon, and if one person is way ahead it's because they are more suspicious. I see no reason to alter that.

Not convinced supporting that plan is scummy though so I'll

unvote

Vote:Ectomancer

I got a scummy vibe from that post. A lot of justification, but he mostly seems to be echoing what has been said before. The thing is, Adele has explained herself now and the scummy plan = scummy planner connection is much weaker.

Yes the connection is much weaker. I guess I didnt relate the irony of the situation well enough to you. In order to create a front runner in the voting and oppose Adele's plan, I had to vote for the person with the most votes (but not too many). It happened to be Adele. Hence, my final statement.

Why did you want to arbitrarily create a front runner? That has the same problems as Adele's plan. Scum can vote for someone who's tied with their partner with part of the justification being "we need a front runner".

I think that question equates with someone asking "why random bandwagons?" And no, it doesnt have the same problems as Adele's plan. The random end of the day leaves too much in the air when it comes down to determining whether peoples actions were malicious, or bad luck and timing when there are several people tied for the lynch. It's not a good situation for the town. We want the most suspicious person in front.
I also reject your "arbitrary" labeling of my vote. Adele was already the front leader when I added my vote. Her plan was scummy to me, leading me to feel she is the most suspicious. If she had not been, then I would have needed to look for the most suspicious of the top votes.

[/quote]I really think Ectomancer should have the most votes, not Adele.[/player]

You really seem to be inserting yourself in a protector role for Adele dont you?

[Jack]

I think that question equates with someone asking "why random bandwagons?" And no, it doesnt have the same problems as Adele's plan. The random end of the day leaves too much in the air when it comes down to determining whether peoples actions were malicious, or bad luck and timing when there are several people tied for the lynch. It's not a good situation for the town. We want the most suspicious person in front.
I also reject your "arbitrary" labeling of my vote. Adele was already the front leader when I added my vote. Her plan was scummy to me, leading me to feel she is

the most suspicious.

If she had not been, then I would have needed to look for the most suspicious of the top votes.

That's not what you said though:

So, to avoid a plan that seems to benefit scum more to me, and in the same stroke put a vote on the creator of that plan: Vote:Adele

...

In order to create a front runner in the voting and oppose Adele's plan, I had to vote for the person with the most votes (but not too many). It happened to be Adele. Hence, my final statement.

In fact you said pretty much the opposite--it "happened" to be Adele. Why do you have to look for the most suspicious "among the top votes"? You should look for the most suspicious period, and make an effort to get other peoples votes on them.

I really think Ectomancer should have the most votes, not Adele.

You really seem to be inserting yourself in a protector role for Adele dont you?

No

[pablito]

unvote, vote: Ectomancer

I thought Jack was previously voting Adele, so I hardly see how he could be a protector for Adele.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

honestly lets just stack riverwind. ias will kill us late game and adele seems a bad kill for today.

jack - yamahako answered my question for me.

all - you are making way too big a deal out of what kenji posted. in fact possible scum link between jack and patrick for picking up the same insignificant details in kenjis post.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

meh... i guess ectomancer works too

unvote, vote ectomancer

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

wait no changed my mind

go riverwind

unvote, vote riverwind

dont want to follow jack lol

gogogo

[Patrick]

in fact possible scum link between jack and patrick for picking up the same insignificant details in kenjis post.

Nonsense. Kenji voted for someone for a really crap reason. It's not an insignificant detail to bring up.

[Patrick]

In fact, explain to me why you noted a possible link between Jack and me, while ignoring the fact that Yamahako actually voted Kenji for his post.

[scotmany12]

Wow, a lot has happened since I last visited. I going to go read the two pages that I missed, and then I should be ready to make my vote.

[pablito]

Discuss, consensus, and vote would be the most logical course of action - we should use FOS to show who we would be willing to vote for (like say a list of suspicion) and get rid of the person highest on our lists. Since this game moves fast - if we have enough people giving analysis and people clearly stating their suspicions then we have something to hold people too.

When I first read this idea, I thought "genial!" and then I realized that it would be too easy for mafia to screw around with us and abuse the system. Again, while I think some of these systems could benefit town, they are more likely to benefit a non-deadlined town than a deadlined-one. Any system where we have to wait for consensus is going to cripple us. Deadline can strike and while we want fairness and hopefulness and all that crap, fact is whoever has the most votes at any one time can be lynched. What we have to do is make sure that if you make someone the new vote leader that you are completely sure that you want that person to be lynched. Otherwise just chalk one up for the sphinx because it's not going to help us win the game.

[scotmany12]

I really was about to vote omg, just because I think he only has his well being in mind. Maybe its just a gut feeling, but I'm don't entirely trust him at this point.
So,

FoS: omg

However, I do agree with omg with Riverwind. He has made only one vote, and that was for Pablito. After that, he just seemed to fade away. I don't trust him either.

Vote: Riverwind

[pablito]

In fact, maybe if your latest vote makes someone the new top vote-getter, then you should announce it when you make your vote? Would it help people if we keep running vote counts as well?

I like the idea of having a system, but the execution of the system is going to be handicapping us not helping us. And it makes me wonder if mafia have been the ones focusing on process rather than individuals in this game or if it's truly just the town that's doing the suggesting.

[Jack]

I make it:

Ectomancer - 3(Jack, patrick,pablito)

Pablito - 2 (Riverwind,kenji)
riverwind - 2 (omg, scotmany)
Adele - 1 ( Ectomancer)
Shamrock - 1 ( Patrick)
Jack - 1 ( HemisphereDancer)

Everyone just put the count in their post after every vote.

[pablito]

Cross off Patrick's vote for Shamrock and I think it would be right.

Also, I'm not so sure that people are getting the urgency of the game. As far as I understand, it's not just that the lynch can come at any time...it's also that discussion at that point will cease. If we're on a good streak and we're discussing something important, it can be cut at any moment. So you have to be sure that every post could be your last...because you never know if you won't be back next day.