Micro 181: Everyone's being watched (Game Over)

[Wisdom]

I agree, sword.
Which is why I wanna know why you visited me (since you didnt seem to scumread me that much) as well as why Grimgroove visited Horus.

[Wisdom]

I was supposed to visit someone and I picked fuzzy at random cause he was the first person to come to mind.

Also ^

Rach clearly didnt think about visiting her scumread
She picked "at random"

[Egg]

Meh. I thought about it and I want everyone to try something. Assume you are the scum who killed fuzzy. Someone says we should claim who we targetted. What do you think? Well...
-you claim you targetted fuzzy
---you get lynched OR
---rach gets lynched then you get lynched
-you lie
---watcher outs you. You're lynched
---watcher didn't use ability. Rach looks bad and you're home free.

So best case falls under the situation where you lied about your target. There is no good situation that comes from town knowing you visited the player who was killed. Therefore, it only makes sense to lie. So I'm going to guess that scum lied.

[Egg]

I was supposed to visit someone and I picked fuzzy at random cause he was the first person to come to mind.

Also ^

Rach clearly didnt think about visiting her scumread
She picked "at random"

This proves that she didn't put a lot of thought into it. It doesn't prove that she's scum. Hell, you'd think that scum WOULD put a lot of thought into who they claim to visit and why.

Tell me you can't see someone who is town and not one to strategize every move seeing it as "well this doesn't really mean anything so I guess I'll visit the first person I think of"

[Wisdom]

Except we were not expecting Rach to claim. It's not like everyone else, who claimed in the massclaim, knowing that we're going to do that.
She claimed out of nowhere, thinking that she's at L-1 and about to be lynched, that much is genuine regardless of alignment.

[Wisdom]

Honestly, the more I read her post the more I think that she just panicked that the watcher had caught her and she tried to argue "no I did visit fuzzy but someone else did too, its not me!".
This clicks in perfectly with something Rach would do; making complex thoughts "I will claim this and mention it was random, hoping that the watcher got roleblocked or that someone visited fuzzy" does not feel like Rach. No offense intended, just saying what I think here.

[sword_of_omens]

@Wisdom-
i know that's what Rach says...doesn't mean it's true...although, i think she did say that Fuzzy was probably scum if Zio flipped town, so she could be legit and someone's lying...

i didn't even really read the thread until after Night was over and i was sure i hadn't been killed...
i didn't want to put a lot of time into the game if i wasn't even sure if i'd survive the night...
i did read the last few pages of the day and your little push on my slot after the hammer stood out...so i chose you...

anyway, i'll go back and read...

[Wisdom]

@Wisdom-
i know that's what Rach says...doesn't mean it's true...although, i think she did say that Fuzzy was probably scum if Zio flipped town, so she could be legit and someone's lying...

If she's town and she visited Fuzzy because she scumread him, why would she lie about it and say that she picked fuzzy at random?

[sword_of_omens]

i think you misunderstood me...i try to explain it better:
i was saying if she was scum, she could easily be lying about it being "random".
However, (using the logic of visiting a scum read=good) she looks to have had reason to visit him if she were town...(so we can't say she was going after a town read) and she would most likely be town in that case...
And if she was town, then yeh, she wouldn't be lying about it being random...
In other words, we can't catch Rach scum based on that principle...

[Wisdom]

If she's scum she's obviously lying because not only it wasn't random, but it was the kill.
If she's town then we have to accept that it was random, since she wouldn't lie about it.
Therefore the fact that she had reasons to visit him as town do not have any importance here.

[sword_of_omens]

In other words, we can't catch Rach scum based on that principle...

yeh...what you/I said...

[Egg]

Wisdom, exactly. That's Rach. She's transparent. She doesn't do complex stuff like that. Now you see what I see.

Lol sword. "I coulda died last night. Cuz I'm town, obviously. I don't kill. I coulda died. Do I look town now?"

Also this little back and forth was pointless. You guys basically agree...

[Wisdom]

I'm not sure if I agree with any of you but whatever.

If we don't get a claim, we should lynch Rach.

[Grimgroove]

I didn't put that much thought in my nightly visit. I got back from a V/LA when the day was over and picked Horus because he stood out for me the most. Not because he was the scummiest, but because he felt the "most mysterious" to me. Somehow it was the most intuitive thing to do to visit the person that looks the hardest to read.

[Grimgroove]

@Egg: see 665, I'd like your thoughts on that. You replied only to a portion of it due to a technical error from my side and time-constraint on yours (cfr. 664 and my own unfinished posts before that)

[Wisdom]

Egg
Show me which posts of HD in this game tells you that the slot is town

I believe you never answered this too

[RachMarie]

wow I am so popular lol

I had forgotten about the change when I first started playing and then saw the message about pick someone or I will assign someone random, and since I am sharing a computer (though not for much longer may get my new one by as early as Friday WOOT), I did not want to take a chance on missing it, since I had not had time to sort through so I could pick the scummiest person I could find, I picked the first one that came to mind. Nothing half as sinister as ya all are making me out to be lol.

Hey Egg how do you know me so well? is this an alt? I dont remember playing with you before?
I did panic a bit when we were in the froofroo and I was worried that somehow the watcher would inadvertently out himself or herself. Which is why I claimed, and I did think I was at L-1. So another reason to claim.

I am certainly not a super cunning scum usually get a lot of suspicion on me whether I am town or scum

[Wisdom]

What do you think about the fact that nobody else visited fuzzy?

[Grimgroove]

I was worried that somehow the watcher would inadvertently out himself or herself.

And I ask: why?

If the watcher outs himself it means he already used his shot and has got some information to share. Why wait with this? He already used his shot in this case, essentailly making him a VT with 1/ a claim making him conftown, 2/ information possibly clarifying things. So why worry about him outing himself in this case?
If he didn't use his shot, he'd have no reason to out himself anyway and there's no reason to worry either.

This is why I find your story and motives very difficult to believe. I think the only thing that had you worried was that you were caught, culminating in a stream of events described in 642.

[RachMarie]

I forgot it was a one shot dealie..... Since I am often a PR (mainly Doc) I get antsy about them outting too soon. I guess though if it is one shot it is not so bad.

Meanwhile clearly someone is lying about not visiting Fuzzy. Cause I know I did not kill him.

[Wisdom]

Who do you think that is?

[Egg]

Grim, on 665, I still disagree with you. However, it's clearly logic coming from town. I don't want to come off as attacking you or calling you scum because I have a strong town read on you. We've voiced our opinions on Rach and I don't think either of us is going to change our mind on reading the situation where she visited fuzzy and all that. Without a watcher result, we don't really have an answer without a flip...

Wisdom, you have destroyer and mala as scum. How willing would you be to lynch mala today?

Mala, so because I have town reads on Rach and Destroyer, you don't have to respond to my points against you? lol we'll see how far that logic goes. Also, tells from Day 1 don't go away on Day 2. You are trying to brush it off as if it were RVS and it's so much more than that.

Why destroyer is town coming up next

[Egg]

I HAD AN EPIPHANY WHILE I WAS READING THE EARLY GAME AGAIN

VOTE: Zionite

Hey guys, remember when Zionite had an L-1 wagon on him?
Remember when he reacted strongly to everyone's vote?
There's...someone he didn't react to.

I'll give you a hint: their name starts with Mala, and ends with Kittens.

^the whole thing about a big epiphany, let's hint at the buddy and use caps and act like it's all new stuff when someone is at L-1 is TownDestroyer. As scum, he's more likely to just quietly hop on. He makes the mala connection because he thinks zionite will flip scum and he wants people to listen to him on mala because he said it before zi's flip. This post is one of the huge ones why destroyer is town.

Post 413 he says "we're not scum". As scum, he'd probably steer clear of that kind of comment.

416 he shows frustration that mara isn't talking to him. As scum, he wouldn't really need to discuss a whole lot with her unless they were about to claim or something, but they clearly weren't. This shows town because he wants to discuss reads. He even posts reads in that same post showing what was on his mind at the time.
^
Shit, that's mara's post, not human's. Still, you can see the thought process and it's a town one.

603 shows a classic case of genuine town confirmation bias. He had mala and zionite as scum reads and saw connections that obviously weren't there. In 608, he's now doing the same thing with Rach.

Wisdom, if you don't see scumhunting in their ISO, you are blind. Open it up and count the times they give reads and stuff.

[Malakittens]

@Egg:

Even though you have a scum read on Wisdom.. You are trying to work with him to lynch me? Since when do people work with scum reads to lynch another player?

I already responded to the points against me by you. I'm not trying to brush them away, but you are working on without a flip. You are literally in bias mode that I'm scum and some of this is also PoE.

What do you think of Swords?

[Egg]

You are my top scum read. I'll take anyone's vote on you as a victory. I also want to see how committed he is to that scum read he says he has on you.

Isn't

every

scum read a player has during a game "without a flip"? I'm not seeing where that is relevant here.

Where is this process of elimination thing coming from?

Sword is the one player I'm back and forth on. Mostly because I'm not sure how to read Bo and a lot of his stuff could go either way. I'd probably have him as scum if you or wisdom were to flip town.

By the way, the "m" key on my phone is fucked up so if at any point I have missing or double m's, I apologize.