Micro 188: Matrix6 (Game Over)

[borkjerfkin]

A PM that this had opened would've been nice.

That's for hammering without waiting for a claim. Bad, bad habit. Don't do it again.)

Already seems like you're just voting him to 'punish' him for quickhammering more than you're worried about whether or not it was scum motivated.

[borkjerfkin]

I can pretty much guarantee we're going to get scum between [Mala, anorway] just due to how that wagon went down.

[borkjerfkin]

yeah VOTE: kittens

[Lucky2u]

*long stretched out yawn* Man that was a long night, I slept for ages!

On to business though. Already two votes before I've even posted. This is a bad sign of impatience, if either flip scum it will be half luck. I'm not going to vote yet because I want to see everyone atleast check in, but I am behind the anorway wagon right now. That hammer left a bad taste in my mouth and he stumbled to explain it. I can see him NK macmollie in an attempt to shake the attention off him.

@bork when you say "how that wagon went down" what is your view of what happened?

[borkjerfkin]

@bork when you say "how that wagon went down" what is your view of what happened?

There are two things that were pretty bad with the ferret wagon:
1) the L-1 vote from Mala (where ferret was essentially just lurking at that point) looks opportunistic
And
2) the quickhammer from anorway lynched town without a claim. The fact that this was a PR and the lynch could have been averted via his claim should not factor in here, just the fact that ferret flipped town.

Both of these are extremely suspicious with regard to 1) the actions themselves considering the gamestate at the time and 2) how they were explained afterword, and I really really doubt that both Mala and anorway are town and just made bad moves there; ergo I think there is at least one scum in there.

I'm voting kittens and not anorway pretty much because the attitude in #349 is all wrong, but yes, anorway looks bad right now too.

Already two votes before I've even posted. This is a bad sign of impatience

There's a pretty big difference between putting a vote down and quicklynching, which I am not advocating.

[Sugar Cain]

Mara, do you really think that Lucky would be this blatantly anti-town as scum?

[borkjerfkin]

Mara, do you really think that Lucky would be this blatantly anti-town as scum?

What are you trying to accomplish here other than advertising your hydra dissonance? Work that shit out in private then post here. Also what are you talking about?

[Sakura Hana]

You can't really blame anorway considering almost everyone wanted ferret dead, but i do agree he should have waited for a claim.

[Sugar Cain]

Being tentative to vote can sometimes be a scumtell. Obviously it was addressed to Mara but others are free to comment.

[borkjerfkin]

Being tentative to vote can sometimes be a scumtell. Obviously it was addressed to Mara but others are free to comment.

Eh, I don't agree; that's a playstyle tell first and foremost, and he's making his stance pretty clear even without the vote.

He's also leaning town for me anyway just because of his alarm at Mala's L-1 vote yesterday (#232)

@Sakura -- Anything else to say? What about anorway's explanation alongside his vote?

[Klicking Kittens]

I REALLY need to talk to Klick.

Bork so you're voting me because I think someone voting without waiting for a claim is scummy so I'm apparently punishing them. So you are basically voting me because I'm in a way trying to push a policy lynch (which I'm not).

As for m L-1 vote he was acting like the same Feret he did in your game. He wasn't hunting or anything.

Bork how come you didn't bring up the fact SC didn't want any other conversation during Day 1. Nero was more convinced to cut day short.

@Sak:

I'm not solely blaming him. I'm trying to teach him the ways of anti-town and town tactics in regards to a hammer should be made. I don't like people who just hammer especially in a setup where there is known to be PRs. Ofc there's always where scum can claim a pr, but there's an easy counter claim done by town. So they get caught.

If you think I'm not taking blame for him flipping town - you're wrong. I am.

@Lucky:

So how do you want to go about this day if you don't want early votes cast? It's not like early voting is dangerous atm because we aren't in Lylo. Voting spurs discusssion at least in my mind.

[borkjerfkin]

Bork so you're voting me because I think someone voting without waiting for a claim is scummy so I'm apparently punishing them. So you are basically voting me because I'm in a way trying to push a policy lynch (which I'm not).

This is what you said:

That's for hammering without waiting for a claim. Bad, bad habit. Don't do it again.

Nothing about his reasoning with the vote, nothing about the flip, nothing about the likelihood at all about the likelihood of this being scum motivated at all, just:

"You should not hammer without a claim" => vote.

That does not at all lend itself to any sort of reasoning as to why, in this particular circumstance, you believe anorway to be scum.

Bork how come you didn't bring up the fact SC didn't want any other conversation during Day 1. Nero was more convinced to cut day short.

Ok, consider it brought up: what do you have to say about it? They're a null read for me.

[borkjerfkin]

I REALLY need to talk to Klick.

Why do you REALLY need to talk to someone who hasn't been part of the game so far?

[Klicking Kittens]

I'm glad you are rushing to his defense. How about you let him defend himself? Read Day 1 posts I made a few comments to him before I had to go to work.

I don't really have a huge read on them myself. Mollie thought Mara part was town and in a way I had a feeling Mara was slightly leaning town. So I believe there's a huge chance they are likely town.

____

To get his thoughts? Im no longer solo playing so i need to communicate to my partner
i want to see what he thinks of everything so far
dont think thats too much to ask

(stupid keyboard i cant type right at this point)

[borkjerfkin]

I'm glad you are rushing to his defense. How about you let him defend himself? Read Day 1 posts I made a few comments to him before I had to go to work.

Who are we talking about? Who am I defending? anorway? How?

I don't really have a huge read on them myself. Mollie thought Mara part was town and in a way I had a feeling Mara was slightly leaning town. So I believe there's a huge chance they are likely town.

K...I have trouble reconciling that with the following:

Bork how come you didn't bring up the fact SC didn't want any other conversation during Day 1. Nero was more convinced to cut day short.

As this implies you're trying to accuse them of something (or that you want me to do so).

To get his thoughts? Im no longer solo playing so i need to communicate to my partner
i want to see what he thinks of everything so far
dont think thats too much to ask

Ok; this is admittedly the first time I've ever seen such a replacement dynamic; you're entitled to do that.

[Klicking Kittens]

anorway
youre chainsaw defending him i voted him and now youre attacking me for that vote rather then letting him speak for himself

im not accusing sc of anything
i simply wanted to see your thoughts on that matter and where you stand

good
i didnt have time to get in touch with him before day opened since the crash but work also

(mollie how the fuck do you type like this)

[Sakura Hana]

@bork: Yeah that's all I have to say for now, I was posting at work so I mostly just wanted to let you know my thoughts on what had happened on D2, and also im going to run an errand now, so i'll give you my thoughts on it in a few hours.

[borkjerfkin]

youre chainsaw defending him i voted him and now youre attacking me for that vote rather then letting him speak for himself

Oh "chainsaw defense", why can't I quit you?

The key to identifying this tell is intent - it is possible to confuse Chainsaw Defense with a player who simply finds the attacker scummy and has no intent of defense.

This isn't the first time I've had this accusation leveled at me, either. Thor tried 'bad example of chainsaw on unflipped player' with me when he was scum a long time ago. Worth noting that the person I 'defended' (aka attacked Thor for a questionable interaction with) in that case (Isa, if I recall) also flipped scum.

None of this precludes anorway defending himself, by the way.

i simply wanted to see your thoughts on that matter and where you stand

I don't find the fact that they tunneled on town all day to be really telling either way. Scum are very often more subtle than this, but playstyle differences make this pretty shaky ground to try and generalize here.

p-edit: @Sakura: Ok.

[T S O]

Welp.

That NK has apparently leaving the suscipion on me. Mollie was attacking me, but also to an extent Sak. I still think Mara is town. I have to see who else she and Mac suspected. Either way I should have listened to Mollie about Ferret.

VOTE: anorcway

That's for hammering without waiting for a claim. Bad, bad habit. Don't do it again.

I need to talk to Klick though. See what he thinks about everything. (He may post without talking to me and that's fine)

Your vote suggests you think anorc is scum, but your explanation is more like you're chiding him for a mistake. Which is it?

[Lucky2u]

So how do you want to go about this day if you don't want early votes cast? It's not like early voting is dangerous atm because we aren't in Lylo. Voting spurs discusssion at least in my mind.

That's completely valid, and I've used a false vote to spur reaction in this and previous games. My issue is that you woke up with a vote, the only other post was TSO's oh so helpful filler post. You didn't even give a great reason for it at the time (you have since clarified) but at the time it was "vote because policy". Bork's reaction to vote you in turn would seem suspicious but since then he has led today's scum hunt and that gets a town stamp of approval from me.

Sadly he is pretty much the only one I like for town, because of the five others, I get null or scum:

Sakura is still a null from me, nothing contributed today but with good reason for now.
TSO is lurky, he waited to strike when the wagon was in full motion and he is about to bandwagon by the looks of the above post
Sugar Cain yelling for the day to be over is looking bad in retrospect, (and in my short history here on this forum, the last time someone used caps lock in a post we lynched him and he was scum. Just saying.)
Anorway, with his quick hammer and bad reasoning makes him look so scum it's almost too obvious to lynch him. Almost.
Kittens (see above). Even so, your weird late hydra and your arguments since your first vote earn you atleast a null from me.

With that in mind:

@TSO Why are you quoting his first post since the conversation has since clarified it?

@anorway get in here and tell me why that hammer was a town act.

[Klicking Kittens]

Just because someone scum hunts doesn't make them town. Only because scum do need to scum hunt to avoid having attention brought to them.

There was a reason for my late hydra, but not one I want to publicly address right now. The only people who currently know about it are the mod and Klick. I might explain more at endgame, but right now I can't.

Klick is reading up now as I set up a private QT for us to use.

For those who are saying I'm coaching; I'm giving cristism actually so people can learn from mistakes. I obviously don't care what alignment Anor, but I want him to learn that rushing the lynch through wasn't helpful at al. At the time he did it we still had about 7 days to the deadline. The excuse "well everyone wanted ferret gone" is not a reason to lynch without a claim. If the deadline was less than 24 hours around the same time he hammered; I would have understand, but this was clearly not the case.

I have seen accidental hammers (I once did one myself). But if we knew Ferret was a cop if he claimed we would have more than likely had at least one more day and possibly a cleared/ confirmed innocent/scum. It would have been more beneficial. I can see that I'm talking about after the fact now that we know of Ferret's flip, but still. Not waiting for a claim = anti town to me. All it does it help scum and in this case it REALLY helped scum.

[Sakura Hana]

No need for a claim, if Ferret isn't scum then no one is.

I obviously don't care what alignment Anor

These are probably the most scummiest things i've seen in my life.

[Klicking Kittens]

Please do take that out of context

[T S O]

Lucky, it wasn't clarified. It was like a half-and-half type post - leaving options open. If a bandwagon opened up, great. If not, well it can be passed off as a mentor-cum-criticism type post.

[Klicking Kittens]

Hey guys, I'm the new side of this hydra, Klick. Checking in to say that I'm currently reading, and will be posting thoughts either when I hit something significant or when I discuss things with Mala.