Newbie 1368 - Will there ever be a title? (GAME OVER)

[enomis]

Actually, i rethought about my plan and thought of something even better.

This plan is assuming there is a jailkeeper. Even if there is not jailkeeper, this plan does not give any information to scum. If there is one, this plan helps us alot and actually make it more difficult for scum to counterclaim jailkeeper.

It is to ask everyone to out who they would JailKeep if they were the jailkeeper.

Let me give examples to illustrate why this is good:

Lets take for example i am jail keeper and majiffy is scum in all scenarios.

Scenario 1: I jailkeeped Majiffy Night 2.
I out that i would jailkeep majiffy if i were jailkeeper.
We find someone to lynch during the day. For example grimgroove.
Night 3 i jailkeep majiffy again. We reach 5 man MYLO. Where we have one more lynch. Jail keeper out himself as jailkeeper now. Because scum would definitely kill this night to let us not have a MYLO.

Conclusion: we win.

Scenario 2: I jailkeeped Grimgroove Night 2.
I out the i would jailkeep grimgroove if i were jailkeeper.
Majiffy gain no information from this as everyone just out who they would jailkeep if they were the jailkeeper(instead of some obv breadcrumb or straight outing themselves as JK).
We lynch Core day 3.
Majiffy kill me night 3.(unfortunate)
We know Grimgroove is clear. Well this is the worst scenario.

Scenario 3: Majiffy kill Grimgroove night 3.
Well, theres nothing we can do. Also one of the worse scenario.

Scenario 4: Majiffy kill Homer night 3
Jail keeper out themselves. this gives us two innocents. Jail keeper say who he is going to JK the night. If maf kill go thru, we found the scum. If maf kill never go thru, he switch target publicly.
The only problem i see with this is if the mafia keep NKING which puts us to a stalemate?

Mod: What happens in this situation?

Scenario 5: Scum actually decides to NK which is very unlikely since this gives us two mislynches. For example Majiffy NK.
I out I jailkeeped Grim
We lynch core day 3.
Majiffy NK night 3.
I out myself as jailkeeper. We lynch Grim.
Grim is town.
We have 4 person left, jailkeeper still have one more shot as jailkeeping. This will essentially gives us one clear at 3P LYLO

And we could have all this information without giving information to the scum. What do you think of this?

Please do not execute this plan first as i scared there may be some points i did not think of.

In the case of a cop/townie, i really don't see how the mafia could NK. The maf don't know if there is a cop. Doing this literally force himself into a losing situation.
I am thinking, if there is a cop, should the cop add who they investigated as who would they jailkeep if they were jailkeeper? This would let us know at least who is innocent if the cop died without outing the cop.

In the case of a townie, we just waste our efforts but it gives scum no edge.

[homertve]

Let's say we do that. Let's say I agree with your logic.

Scenario 2:
... ...
Well this is the worst scenario.

How does it help us?

Scenario 3: Majiffy kill Grimgroove night 3.
Well, theres nothing we can do. Also one of the worse scenario.

How does

that

help us?

Scenario 4: Majiffy kill Homer night 3
Jail keeper out themselves. this gives us two innocents.

What? Why? And again: What? How will it give us two innocents? What prevents Majiffy himself to say he's JK at that point?

I'm sorry, but I can't follow your logic.

[homertve]

What prevents Majiffy himself to say he's JK at that point?

Oh, wait. I think I understand now. At that point the scum still doesn't know if there's a chance of a cop. But it's true only if he chose to NK last night. If he tried to kill someone, he knows for a fact that there's a JK.

[enomis]

This plan is assuming there is a jailkeeper. Even if there is not jailkeeper, this plan does not give any information to scum. If there is one, this plan helps us alot and actually make it more difficult for scum to counterclaim jailkeeper.

+ Prevent the obv breadcrumb which the JK may do and give him a way to breadcrumb his JK target without giving information to the scum.

Thats why Scenario 2 and 3 is the worst case scenario. It does not help us but it does not hurt us.

Scenario 4:
Lets see:
I say i jailkeep Grimgroove Majiffy say he jailkeep Homer maybe.
We lynch core.
Homer is nked.
I out that i am jail keeper and i jailkeep grim. If majiffy decide to out that he is jailkeeper,

We basically have Two CLEAR instead of a 4P LYLO since we decide btw majiffy and me.

P-edit: Ok.

[enomis]

Actually, i see a flaw in my plan. If we have all townies, we need to be suspicious of the Jailkeeper who outed himself even though there may be no counter claim of either Cop or JK. But i still don't see any cons.

Any strong Objection to the plan?

[Grimgroove]

You lost me enomis.

I can't make sense out of any of these scenarios I'm afraid to say, I don't think this has clarified your plan but rather made it more complicated.

What do you think about Syryana's suggestion? That sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Regardless of what happens, I think it would be more productive to continue an old-fashioned scumhunt based on RachMarie's flip and hert interactions, as well as analysis of the voting process during the previous phase. If in the end we wouldn't reach consensus, we still have that plan as a fallback, but I don't see the merit in proceeding to a no-lynch immediately. Feels like a waste of a daystage.

[enomis]

You lost me enomis.

I can't make sense out of any of these scenarios I'm afraid to say, I don't think this has clarified your plan but rather made it more complicated.

What do you think about Syryana's suggestion? That sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Regardless of what happens, I think it would be more productive to continue an old-fashioned scumhunt based on RachMarie's flip and hert interactions, as well as analysis of the voting process during the previous phase. If in the end we wouldn't reach consensus, we still have that plan as a fallback, but I don't see the merit in proceeding to a no-lynch immediately. Feels like a waste of a daystage.

If we want to no-lynch, we no-lynch immediately. Either that or we lynch today. There is no halfway.

[homertve]

I'm with grim here.

enomis, Syr is not suggesting a no-lynch today. He's suggesting a no-lynch tomorrow in case there will be a nightkill tonight.

[enomis]

@Grim:
Simple version: We out who we would jailkeep if we were the jailkeeper. Think about the benefits and cons yourself.
Do you object to this plan?

@Homer:
Do you object?

[enomis]

And you know assuming all townie and one scum:

We actually have better chance of finding scum if we nl today.
That is because:

If we NL, the chance of finding scum tomorrow when one died is 1/5, and on lylo is 1/3.
But if we find scum today: it is 1/6 and on lylo is 1/3.

But bah, we are probably not a all townie town now.

[homertve]

I don't object. I just can't see the point. Too many unknown variables.
And I still think you are scum.

Pedit: Again, that won't be true if there will be a NK tonight as well.

[enomis]

Like scum would NK again to give us two free mislynches.

Ok, One approval.

[homertve]

Like scum would NK again to give us two free mislynches.

I did

not

say

that

. There can be a NK if there was a JK and he jails the right person again.

[enomis]

Tell me why you think i am scum again.

P-edit: My situation was assuming all townies. Did you even read.

[homertve]

1. The way you don't want to read the first 30 pages of the game.
2. The way you defended rach and then bassed her.
3. The way you are trying to come up with some crazy plans so we can think about that and not see the very truth that is right there under our noses.

SCUM!

[enomis]

1. The way you don't want to read the first 30 pages of the game.
2. The way you defended rach and then bassed her.
3. The way you are trying to come up with some crazy plans so we can think about that and not see the very truth that is right there under our noses.

SCUM!

1) is enomis being enomis
2) I defended her because of some random lurker lynched and i did not even bussed her. I put my vote on her because i didn't want a no lynch and i see no other lynch possible.
3) The plan is useful.

[Grimgroove]

"random" lurker? Are you seriously bringing that up again? Please don't offend, thank you, definitely if you haven't read the first 30 pages.

I still think Majiffy is the more obvious choice though. Look at his posts. He claimed toh ave a strong townread on her, yet never explained why. After some shenanigans at the end of the first daystage her read her a slight town. He called me "dumb as bricks" for believing RachMarie was scum. If anyone was defending her, it was him.
He was online during the end of the previous day. He posted in other topics at the time,b ut not here, choosing not to be seen, choosing not to hammer. He was hoping for a no lynch rather thans ee his buddy lynched.

That's my main hypothesis.

My second is Core being scum with RachMarie. He was too ambiguous during the moment of truth, pushing for an enomis-lynch and not hammering RachMarie despite intent.

It's one of these two.

My townreads on enomis, Syryana and homertve are too strong to even consider voting them. I really don't see enomis' elaborate plan coming from scum simply trying to stall, homer.

What do you guys make of Majiffy and Core yourselves?

[Grimgroove]

However her play has been troublesome so she has moved from strong town to just barely leaning town;

I have associative tells with certain players that will better discern her alignment.

Now would be a good time to specify.

[Majiffy]

I still think Majiffy is the more obvious choice though. Look at his posts. He claimed toh ave a strong townread on her, yet never explained why. After some shenanigans at the end of the first daystage her read her a slight town. He called me "dumb as bricks" for believing RachMarie was scum. If anyone was defending her, it was him.
He was online during the end of the previous day. He posted in other topics at the time,b ut not here, choosing not to be seen, choosing not to hammer. He was hoping for a no lynch rather thans ee his buddy lynched.

Go look at my scum games. I bus and I bus hard. You won't ever catch me as scum using the above tactic.

However her play has been troublesome so she has moved from strong town to just barely leaning town;

I have associative tells with certain players that will better discern her alignment.

Now would be a good time to specify.

I'll dig in later, I'm heading out the door now.

---

Setup spec is completely fucking useless at this point. Scum could have no-killed, there could be a doc, there could be a roleblocker, there could be a bulletproof. We simply

do not know

. Speculating about the setup just gives scum somewhere to hide in and distracts us from actual scumhunting. Stop it.

[Majiffy]

Oh wait this is a newbie nevermind.

[Majiffy]

Anyway I'll be back later.

[Majiffy]

If that mkfuba slot flips scum, Rach is the partner fyi.

This pins money on Core, which is great, because that's who I was expecting to be scum anyway.

--
David/Rach team not likely/plausible because of how the d1 hammering went down.

[Majiffy]

David being enomis now.

[Majiffy]

Oh this setup is 2 of 4 so yeah we don't know if it was doc or jk that stopped the kill, or if mafia no killed (unlikely) altogether.

Setup spec is unlikely to help us here.

[enomis]

Doc died