NY 166: Knight-Errant 18p - Game Over!

[Evil Regals]

@Human Destroyer & KKX:

Please comment on my case on Notscience. After you read it give me a detailed reason why you are voting him. I strongly urge you to move your votes off him because he's likely town.

____

I'm not really sure if I like the Abdelraham wagon. It's only because there's a clear lack of a counter wagon which makes me think possible town read on Abdelraham rather than scum. Yes I will admit things he has been doing is scummy as hell.

Now his survivalist attitude is noted, but that's a null tell because either alignment would want to do that. He's whinning about the wagon, but isn't doing much to get it off him. He expects that it will just disappear off him.

I would still like an answer to the question I linked in one of my posts. He seemed to ignore it.

@Shattered Viewpoint:

Can you explain your EddieFenix meta case. I'm very interested in hearing it.

Beastcharizard's post 234 rubs me the wrong way. This could be scum trying to trick people. It's more of a Jedi Mind Trick move than anything else.

[beastcharizard]

Fegelein, what fake claim did you destroy? I don't see/remember a post like that.
PMPL is not in the wiki so please tell me what that means.
What breadcrumb did Katarina notice that you didn't?

I find it hard to think notscience is town. That being said the only reason i would vote them would be a policy vote which I refuse to do. Not helping is well not helpful to town which is why i find it hard to think they are town. At the same time only the self-vote has come off as semi-scummy to me so that isn't reason enough to vote them.

UNVOTE: Fegelein

I am beating a dead horse at this point in time and I can't really say they are scum. Unfortunately this will be my only post today. I will post more tomorrow when I have the actual time to do so.

[Fegelein]

I destroyed a potential Cop claim (if you are scum)
PMPL = Piss My Pants Laughing
Abdel's "I'm an important role" one.

And you're not going to put your vote anywhere else?

[Shattered Viewpoint]

@Shattered Viewpoint:

Can you explain your EddieFenix meta case. I'm very interested in hearing it.

I could, but I wouldn't want to deny you the thrill of original research.

[Fegelein]

Town:

Baldrick (good overall content, good accusations towards players)
Concombre (solid pressure coming from this hydra, making good cases against a lot of players)

Leaning Town:

EddieFenix (actually posting a reads list, asking an intelligent question, good logic, needs to post more)
Katrina (good reasoning behind voting, geniune reactions towards Vifam, pointing out a breadcrumb. Didn't like the WIFOM in #214)

Null:

KX (good reads intially, interesting questions towards me, though very slightly backseating and his meta as Town is a little more reckless)
Evil Regals (ER would be my third strongest scumread behind Abdel and Beast had it not been for her meta check on NotScience, which I can't see coming from scum at all. Otherwise, over-defensive and backseat scumhunting a lot)
notscience (too fluffy early game, difficult to get a read on, though ER's meta check helped)
PeregrineV (needs to post more)
meeps (really can't a read either way from this slot)
oriole (needs to see more, slightly backseating)
The Purple Rose (weird play in general, slightly backseating)

Leaning Scum:

Human Destroyer (no contributions yet active)
dopog (sloppy play, reads don't have much substance)
Vifam (scummy early game, anti-town, reasoning on Abdel is not expanded upon)

Scum:

Abdelrahman (read everyone's case on him)
BeastCharizard (read my case on him)

It's in order of towniest to scummiest btw.

I'd quite like to see everybody's read list at this point too, helps us find out where we're at.

[Fegelein]

Town:

Baldrick (good overall content, good accusations towards players)
Concombre (solid pressure coming from this hydra, making good cases against a lot of players)

Leaning Town:

EddieFenix (actually posting a reads list, asking an intelligent question, good logic, needs to post more)
Katrina (good reasoning behind voting, geniune reactions towards Vifam, pointing out a breadcrumb. Didn't like the WIFOM in #214)

Null:

KX (good reads intially, interesting questions towards me, though very slightly backseating and his meta as Town is a little more reckless)
Evil Regals (ER would be my third strongest scumread behind Abdel and Beast had it not been for her meta check on NotScience, which I can't see coming from scum at all. Otherwise, over-defensive and backseat scumhunting a lot)
notscience (too fluffy early game, difficult to get a read on, though ER's meta check helped)
PeregrineV (needs to post more)
meeps (really can't a read either way from this slot)
oriole (needs to see more, slightly backseating)
The Purple Rose (weird play in general, slightly backseating)

Leaning Scum:

Human Destroyer (no contributions yet active)
dopog (sloppy play, reads don't have much substance)
Vifam (scummy early game, anti-town, reasoning on Abdel is not expanded upon)

Scum:

Abdelrahman (read everyone's case on him)
BeastCharizard (read my case on him)

It's in order of towniest to scummiest btw.

I'd quite like to see everybody's read list at this point too, helps us find out where we're at.

[EddieFenix]

@Fege, I know. I'm personally busy and keep getting side tracked. I will catch up with THIS game AND my other game soon.... My other game is going fast though and I wanna cry... But, for NOW, I want to hear out Beast and Abdel on many things that I will push here in a bit.

[Fegelein]

Oh, my Shattered read disappeared:
Place him at the lowest of my null reads for the "Let the adults scumhunt" comment, yet barely doing anything after that.

[The Purple Rose]

it's not random, it's that you post post by post lists and shit 10 pages into the game, have a full eight of the posts and base reads on insignificant things (how else can you, 10 pages in, obviously).

You are working hard on looking active without taking any risks of your own. I'd be more then happy if we lynched you, too often it's scum who plays like this, rarely an overeager townie. Regardless, they usually make town lose with this playstyle.

[The Knight-Errant]

Vote Count 1.10

Abdelrahman (7) - oriole, dopog, The Purple Rose, meeps, Concombre, Katarina LeBlanc, Shattered Viewpoint
notscience (2) - Human Destroyer, KX
Baldrick (2) - Vifam, notscience
Concombre (2) - Baldrick, Abdelrahman
beastcharizard (1) - Fegelein

Not Voting (4) - EddieFenix, PeregrineV, Evil Regals, beastcharizard

Countdown: (expired on 2013-08-12 11:00:00).

18 alive, 10 to lynch.

[Fegelein]

it's not random, it's that you post post by post lists and shit 10 pages into the game, have a full eight of the posts and base reads on insignificant things (how else can you, 10 pages in, obviously).

You are working hard on looking active without taking any risks of your own. I'd be more then happy if we lynched you, too often it's scum who plays like this, rarely an overeager townie. Regardless, they usually make town lose with this playstyle.

You're attacking me for scumhunting and using my resources?

[dopog]

Hi peoples!

I'm back and ok so I have mostly caught up!

Thoughts;

~ Shattered is super null. Trying to skip rvs is (at least in the immediate sense) optimum play for scum but stating that you're gonna do it is probably equally random from both alignments. Not giving reasoning behind reads is whatever, because I've seen it come from both.

~ Fegelein is using "backseat scumhunting" in place of actually calling out what people are doing that is scummy. It's pretty freaking annoying because insofar as he seems not to examine content/context it's pretty much accusing people who don't scumhunt in the same way as him. I mean it might work for some people, but you can't just get reads on people for asking questions and crap. If you actually read their content and tell me what was backseating ok I would listen. Actually now that I think about, feg seems as if he is trying to recreate his aggressive nature (hint; I'm saying I think he is trying to replicate his town play). E.g. Posting reads lists and telling others to post read lists creates a facade of geniune scumhunting when what feg does is labels some people's posting without evidence (which he has done for a couple reads; e.g. oriole, to a lesser degree abdel). His;

And I'm keeping my vote on Beast for the time being because nobody else seems to be questioning him.

Implies he doesn't actually believe beast is scummy, although he has solidified that read now.
I will try to read up on his meta, because he's playing somewhat differently to the only other game I have played with him, but that's probably not sample size enough, and that was a different game.
Actually far out. Now I think about it feg is at scummiest (i.e. the scummiest I can imagine him being now), slight-scum. I'm just pretty annoyed that he uses "backseat scumhunting" as a tell without providing analysis of content, or why for certain players backseat scumhunting is a tell.

~ Also meeps posts have sounded pretty contrived, as I touched on earlier. Stuff like;

anyways, i should go more in-depth on why i voted concombre; it was mainly because it claimed to have a perfect town read on me, and i really dont like that statement, whether it's on me or another player. for one it's honestly way too early to have a perfect town read on another player; it also seems like potential early buddying, and he also failed to state reasons on why he thought i was town

sounds as if he is super conscious of what he is saying; "I should go more-in depth". Just playing with meeps (across a couple formats, albeit infrequently), he is usually much more cautious with his vote as town. Voting on the abdelrahman bandwagon also is opportunistic. The combination of the two (cautious posting, liberal voting) makes me feel an inconsistency in his play and general artificialness to get votes on people whilst concerned about APPEARING town, which is scummy. More confident in this scumread than the abdel and slight-feg one thus;

unvote

vote: meeps

~ KX's "grace me with your presence" made me pretty mad, but otherwise he is playing how I expect; attacking troll-ish behaviour, aggressive questioning, etc.

~ Will do a fleshed out read of abdel later when I have more time but got a couple questions.

@Purple Rose; what's your actual read on katarina Leblanc? and vifam? I guess; a couple players you mentioned earlier without making a real judgement on them.

@Baldrick;

I didn't have a scumread on you from your post.
Someone else did.
Is there a bad reason for someone not to clarify a scumread?

I know you didn't
I'm figuring this question is more asking why would I call you out for asking someone why they have a read.
Enquirying about why someone else has a certain read on someone else can be indicative of alignment, IN CONTEXT, hence why I said I'm noting it.
And it's weird that you asked about a specific person, so I felt that your question was implying something (e.g. you disagree with their read) but idek.

Farewell!

[Fegelein]

#133. Did you even try?

[Fegelein]

*#113

[dopog]

"backseat scumhunting = Not hauling your ass to scumhunt, just sitting back, asking questions, throwing suspicion away from you. It's an overly cautious kind of play."

The measure of all of those things are subjective (bar asking questions) [and definitely (which you're aware of sometimes I guess) some players do have a generally more cautious style of play].

Furthermore my point was really that I've never seen you say "this phrase is an example of backseat scumhunting" or something to that effect or "this is just throwing suspicion away from you and not actually trying to scumhunt" so yah. You never seem to link the two things -- backseat scumhunting and what people actually say that is scummy (in regards to backseat scumhunting). Definition makes no sense (at least within the confines of this game) without concrete (or even tiny) examples.

[dopog]

And when you say a whole post is backseat scumhunting that doesn't help because it just makes it seem as if you're just trying to blow-up the entirety of someone's reads just because you saw tendencies that are, to you, backseat scumhunting.

[Fegelein]

In general, recklessness is more often Towny than scum and vice versa for cautiousness. That's not always the case of course, but even cautious players can get involved.

Let's use the post I called scumhunting 101 from Evil Regals:

@Notsciene:

Do you have a history in trolling? We're passed the RVS stage yet you aren't doing anything, but posting fluff and trolling.

@Concombre:

Is there any way you can maybe give a link or two so I can read up on Meep's meta? I still think it might be too early to get a solid read off someone, but I don't think it's enough reason for Baldrick to jump on you for.

@Vifam:

You are going to call the Concombre wagon trash, but not do anything to actively make it decrease.

@Meeps:

Why did you feel the need to 'lol' at all the bandwagons. Real time mafia isn't like a speed game such as skype mafia or anything like that right?

@Question for everyone:

How many of you are followers of Fegelin? I want to know where I stand with whom I'm playing with right now. I need to know if you have any type of mafia experience or are you just new in general.

Notice here that they do not attempt to draw suspicion to themselves by posting mainly questions. They do not offer any real personal thoughts, they do not attempt to counter points, they simply ask questions and sit back in order to not draw attention to themselves, which is why I especially did not like Regals's reaction to my pressure. This is backseat scumhunting, sitting in the backseat is posting fairly actively, yet not really getting stuck in and asking questions is a good disguise to don to say you have been scumhunting.

Now, simply apply this to all of the other posts I have called out for such, to a lesser extent (as that post seriously was the worst)

I'm not saying that asking questions is scummy, but when you ask questions most of the time, it looks as if you're taking a step back. Other things can also be backseat scumhunting, such as lacking substance in your posts, but asking questions constantly is probably the worst example of backseat scumhunting for me.

[notscience]

dopog you left me out

[Marquis]

me too u butthed

[Baldrick]

"backseat scumhunting = Not hauling your ass to scumhunt, just sitting back, asking questions, throwing suspicion away from you. It's an overly cautious kind of play."

The measure of all of those things are subjective (bar asking questions) [and definitely (which you're aware of sometimes I guess) some players do have a generally more cautious style of play].

Furthermore my point was really that I've never seen you say "this phrase is an example of backseat scumhunting" or something to that effect or "this is just throwing suspicion away from you and not actually trying to scumhunt" so yah. You never seem to link the two things -- backseat scumhunting and what people actually say that is scummy (in regards to backseat scumhunting). Definition makes no sense (at least within the confines of this game) without concrete (or even tiny) examples.

Hi.
Does Dopog always post like this or is it just when he is scum, because it is a scummy post.

[notscience]

Beast am I town or scum to you, none of that fence BS.

[Fegelein]

This is a scum-game of his, although he subbed out:
http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/showthr ... -NOC-Day-2

[EddieFenix]

dopog, that is a very weak argument to try and bring to the table against Fegelein. If he thinks someone is scum and he wants to keep his vote there, then he has every right. It creates pressure. Now, besides Fege, who do you see as scum and why?

[The Knight-Errant]

Prodded meeps.

[The Knight-Errant]

Going to go ahead and bump this to the next page.