Open 529 -- Picking Simplicity -- Game Over

[Antihero]

VOTE: aptil
^this. needs. a. wagon.

[Brian Skies]

Uh...what? Mafia & SK = Anti-Town. You're saying that "Mafia & SK" and "Anti-Town" are two different categories? How so?

Also, if you think I'm Scum, you should vote for me.

I also consider bad towns, dumb downs, and lurking towns to be "anti-town" players because they can be a detriment to town's wincon.

And from your own words, SK = anti-town, which falls under the group you want us to hunt for. So what's the problem with people hunting the SK? The faster we eliminate the SK, the more quickly we enter a stage where we only have to deal with 1 possible night kill instead of 2.

Also, I'm not voting you because I can engage you without doing so. There are 20 players in this game I need to read but I only have 1 vote.

Why don't you make your own wagon? Why do you have to sheep someone?

There are 20 people in this game (and it takes 11 to lynch). Making larger wagons increases pressure and helps read each other more quickly. I'm just trying to expedite the process.

VOTE: aptil
^this. needs. a. wagon.

What makes you think this?

[RachMarie]

hgh why are you so concerned with appearances? Why do you HAVE to vote? The idea is to figure out who you find is the scummiest and vote for him or her. If you are still figuring that out, you do not have to vote as a placeholder. Why not just state you voted dude for RVS and are still trying to figure out who is scum? Why all the verbal dancing?


Not all anti town players are either scum or 3rd party, sometimes town players also are anti town. The hard part and what we need to focus on, is figuring out the true scum (including 3rd Party) from those townies who are not playing an optimal game.

[Antihero]

@Brian:

You voted for me but I will change it before the deadline probably.

This statement is so strange . I am now thinking one of them(HGH and TCold) has to be scum.

The first two posts from the start of the day give off a "make this person look bad" vibe, this one is the worst offender because it sets up a false dilemma (this supported by the fact that there's NO reason for the fact that one of HGH and TCold

has

to be scum).

I like how as I'm reading through the thread and am about to make my first post, I stumble upon my prod. The game hasn't even been open for 48 hours yet. It's okay though.

Skull - Not liking her current motivation. Both SK's and Mafia are our enemies, not anti-town players. The townread on Ran is bad. Leaning scum.
TNE - Mild townvibes.
TCold - Just meh at this point.
Wake - The little tidbit is super town. Anyone who thinks otherwise should be lynched.
Elle - Seems town enough. I'm going to sheep. We need bigger wagons.

VOTE: HGH

Are you really that sure about wake being town?

Also didn't like this. I completely see what Brian sees and trying to call that into question feels scummy (especially since it was a matter of degree; he wasn't asking why Brian had the townread, he asked about why it was the intensity it was). In general, I find that scum tend to question townreads more, especially in the early games and especially obvious ones; they need to keep the paranoia alive.

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.03

HGH7193 - 3 - TCold, elleheathen, Brian Skies
jmo16mla - 2 - Ranawey, Titus
Skullduggery - 2 - aptil, BoroPhil
TCold - 2 - thenewearth, HGH7193
aptil - 1 - Antihero
elleheathen - 1 - Skullduggery
RachMarie - 1 - Aeronaut
Ranawey - 1 - jmo16mla
The King - 1 - JacobSavage
uctriton00 - 1 - Evil Regals

Not Voting: RachMarie, The King, uctriton00, Wake88, don_johnson

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2013-10-11 11:43:19)

[Brian Skies]

I found a better wagon.

UNVOTE: HGH
VOTE: aptil

Another thing I'd like to point out is how the scumhunting thus far feels kind of fake and forced to me. I generally like the logic, so I'm going to sheep.

[Skullduggery]

townies do scummy things and scums do townie things. that's the nature of wifom. until you have a frame of reference, i.e. flips and associative tells, VCA, etc., you kind of have to call it like you see it. you seem to be gearing up to attack me regarding my RVS vote. by that I mean, you have now basically asked me the same question twice. generally, when someone continues to ask the same question in different ways, it is usually because they are digging for a particular response. I find this to be a scum trait much more than town. scum often "dig" for a response which they can then use for an attack. especially in the early game when our words are the only evidence available. townies will generally only repose a question if they did not understand the answer. did you not understand the humor involved or are you poking a bear with a stick so you can then try to convince the townspeople to shoot him after he mauls you?

I think maybe you're being a little too paranoid about this whole thing. I'm asking you questions so I can make an attempt to figure out how you think. In case you haven't noticed, that's kind of what I've been doing with everybody so far. Helps me get my bearings in large games with lots of players and lots of personalities/quirks/play styles to remember.

If getting to know you is what you consider "gearing up to attack you," then maybe you need to loosen up a little.

So you admit that the SK is anti-town. That you're hunting anti-town and in doing so, hunting the SK. But not specifically hunting them because that would be scum. Gotcha.
And yes, it may very well be different from yours if you're the SK (you seem rather concerned about this slot!) or scum.

You want to know one of my biggest Mafia-related pet peeves? When people use the word "admit" incorrectly. To admit something is to recognize a fault or a fallacy. I did not "admit" anything because I did not do anything wrong.

My definition of "anti-Town" is any faction that isn't Town. It collectively includes Scum, Serial Killer, and any other theoretical group whose win condition is in direct conflict with Town's win condition. I had assumed that this definition was universal enough that I wouldn't have to waste my time explaining it. Clearly I assumed incorrectly.

Where have I demonstrated that I'm "rather concerned" about the SK? Was it the part where I said that I couldn't care less whether we lynch Scum or the SK on day one?

I think they could have and if he did, then yes he is scummy for doing so.
So you've avoided this question twice now. Third time is a charm?
Why is it town?

Because they gave me Town vibes? I'm honestly not sure what kind of response you're expecting from me. I'm also honestly not sure why my response to this question is so important to you.

I'm not sure I like anyone on day one stating "I'm hunting anti-town players" [obvious alert] and this feels like an attempt to trap/stick a vote somewhere

Can you explain your thought process, please? I don't follow you.

I also consider bad towns, dumb downs, and lurking towns to be "anti-town" players because they can be a detriment to town's wincon.

And from your own words, SK = anti-town, which falls under the group you want us to hunt for. So what's the problem with people hunting the SK? The faster we eliminate the SK, the more quickly we enter a stage where we only have to deal with 1 possible night kill instead of 2.

Alright, well, I suppose it's just a matter of our definitions differing then. See above for my definition of "anti-Town."

If you're Scum in a setup like this, your first priority will be to find the SK first and

then

focus on the Town. That's because the SK can kill you and your teammates at night while Town can't. Therefore, it makes sense for Scum players to be actively trying to find the SK as early as possible so they can eliminate that nighttime danger. Do you see where I'm coming from here? Do you see why it's scummy to specifically focus on the SK when Town has no reason to be so picky at this point in the game?

[thenewearth]

antihero is town

UNVOTE:
VOTE: aptil

le's wagon then

[Antihero]

hgh why are you so concerned with appearances? Why do you HAVE to vote? The idea is to figure out who you find is the scummiest and vote for him or her. If you are still figuring that out, you do not have to vote as a placeholder. Why not just state you voted dude for RVS and are still trying to figure out who is scum? Why all the verbal dancing?


Not all anti town players are either scum or 3rd party, sometimes town players also are anti town. The hard part and what we need to focus on, is figuring out the true scum (including 3rd Party) from those townies who are not playing an optimal game.

RACHMARIE!

why are
you
not
voting?

[Brian Skies]

If you're Scum in a setup like this, your first priority will be to find the SK first and then focus on the Town. That's because the SK can kill you and your teammates at night while Town can't. Therefore, it makes sense for Scum players to be actively trying to find the SK as early as possible so they can eliminate that nighttime danger.

Do you see where I'm coming from here? Do you see why it's scummy to specifically focus on the SK when Town has no reason to be so picky at this point in the game?

After some thinking, I can see this logic. The probability of hitting the SK as town is 1/19 anyways (very low and an inefficient way for town to spend its scumhunting resources). The probability of hitting mafia is 4/19. It's to both the town's and SK's benefits to hunt mafia since the SK can get outnumbered by the mafia later.

I still like the idea of reducing the possible nightkills from 2 to 1, but mutually hunting mafia is a much better decision.

Besides, the way I see it, if the SK does his job properly and actively scumhunts, he's probably going to appear town in the early game. It's better to not waste our energy looking for a townish SK right now and wait for a time where his true colors will come to light.

[RachMarie]

Because I came in too late for RVS and still am trying to peg everyone

[elleheathen]

So you admit that the SK is anti-town. That you're hunting anti-town and in doing so, hunting the SK. But not specifically hunting them because that would be scum. Gotcha.
And yes, it may very well be different from yours if you're the SK (you seem rather concerned about this slot!) or scum.

You want to know one of my biggest Mafia-related pet peeves? When people use the word "admit" incorrectly. To admit something is to recognize a fault or a fallacy. I did not "admit" anything because I did not do anything wrong.

I'm not using the word 'admit' incorrectly. You can admit a truth just as you can admit a lie. To admit, is to concede that something is valid.

Where have I demonstrated that I'm "rather concerned" about the SK? Was it the part where I said that I couldn't care less whether we lynch Scum or the SK on day one?

I found it weird that you took that early exchange as anything more than some Star Wars geekery - and so your question seemed off to me, as did your initial response to my line of questioning on it.

I wanted to found out your reasoning for asking because it seemed as if you were either:

A) concerned we were legitimately SK hunting because you thought it was scum motivated
B) concerned we were legitimately SK hunting because you're the SK
C) were not concerned that we were actually SK hunting at all because you're mafia but wanted to paint it as scummy

One makes you town. One makes you SK. One makes you mafia.

The

rather concerned

portion makes me think that you are A or B.
The reply makes me think that you are A.
Your response over my questioning does not.

I think they could have and if he did, then yes he is scummy for doing so.
So you've avoided this question twice now. Third time is a charm?
Why is it town?

Because they gave me Town vibes? I'm honestly not sure what kind of response you're expecting from me. I'm also honestly not sure why my response to this question is so important to you.

Why is there a question mark. It gave you town vibes. Simple.
It was a simple question. That was a simple answer. An

answer

being all I wanted.

Becauuuuse. I don't see at all what was town about the two quotes but you saw enough that you labeled it as definite town. I wanted to know why. I asked.

Do you not like questions? Geez.

[Titus]

Skullduggery, no admit is just to acknowledge something as true. See "Admissions of a Party Opponent" in Civil Procedure/Rules of Evidence if you want to be bored. I admit my name is Titus. That's not a logical fallacy. To admit is merely to acknowledge something as true. That's how the word is commonly used in the professional and mafia circles I go with. So yeah, it may be your pet peeve but you understand the word wrong. Admit is the opposite of deny. Denying is to say something is untrue. For instance, I deny being Skullduggery.

I'll respond to the substance of this in the morning. SD's comment on admission just struck me and I had to respond to that.

[Nobody Special]

Searching for a replacement for The King.

[TCold]

Hmm. I still prefer going after HGH, but considering his activity levels as well as the content he provides we could wait months to get something, if we focus on him too much...

I still want you to answer my questions HGH.

I can see the logic and validity of the case on Aptil. He also hasn't contributed anything since then.

Unvote

VOTE: Aptil

[Aeronaut]

Haven't read everything thoroughly let, but I agree that Aptil seems like he isn't doing much.

VOTE: Aptil

[aptil]

@mod V/LA till 29/9/13.

[jmo16mla]

VOTE: aeronaut

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: aeronaut

Are we going to be explaining our vote or just dropping it off like an eviction notice?

[jmo16mla]

You seemed opportunistic.

[Aeronaut]

You seemed opportunistic.

And these people don't?

Hmm. I still prefer going after HGH, but considering his activity levels as well as the content he provides we could wait months to get something, if we focus on him too much...

I still want you to answer my questions HGH.

I can see the logic and validity of the case on Aptil. He also hasn't contributed anything since then.

Unvote

VOTE: Aptil

antihero is town

UNVOTE:
VOTE: aptil

le's wagon then

I found a better wagon.

UNVOTE: HGH
VOTE: aptil

Another thing I'd like to point out is how the scumhunting thus far feels kind of fake and forced to me. I generally like the logic, so I'm going to sheep.

VOTE: aptil
^this. needs. a. wagon.

[Ranawey]

Oportunistic...? It's not like we're lynching aptil just like that, everybody's just trying to put some pressure.

Also, sorry for being this inactive, loads of stuff happening irl, and I'm trying to catch on a game of 20p, heh.

PEdit: Burned.

[jmo16mla]

Yours stuck out to me. I mean, you'd think you'd at least read through before agreeing and voting eh?

[Ranawey]

And how do you know the others have read?

[jmo16mla]

How do you know I've read?

Why are you defending him? Do you have a strong town read on him?