Open 529 -- Picking Simplicity -- Game Over

[Wake1]

Interesting reactions.

Skelda noticeably lied by distorting my action, by saying I was demanding people to do so. Only Scum intentionally distorts the truth. Sounds like frustrated Scum. Let's lynch Skelda. If I die, get him. Go go go.

If you think I don't think things through, RD, you seriously don't know who you are talking to. The Cop can investigate me if he or she wants, but that'd be a waste in my opinion. However, at any point in the game I'm willing to be mislynched as a VT in order to protect our PRs; you can take that to the bank.

[Skelda]

Still waiting for reasoning as to why everypony who is voting Skull is. Just something very nice and concise because I see no valid reasons.

We are looking at something like:

Scum:
elle
Boro
aptil
RM
Aero
DJ

Town:
Anti
ER
BS
Skelda
Wake
HGH
Titus
Skull

The rest need to post more

I think I agree with most of this.

VOTE: Don because I thought I already had.

Why exactly do you agree with most of it? Which parts, and what do you disagree on, exactly?

Would you explain why Don's your current vote? Lastly, who are the next to people down your list you'd vote for?

Well, I really ignored the town list since I don't feel like that means anything or was very calculated. It just seems like a random list of names to me, but I think it is the sort of lynch that, on a whim, anyone would be liable to make. What I do agree with is the scum, with the exceptions of Elle and Aptil.

DM has been my main suspect for a while. He used some faulty logic against Skull with the whole flaking sitewide thing, and seemed to be trying to twist that into an argument against Skull and anyone who didn't buy that Skull would just stop posting because of one game. That really bothers me, I didn't think it made sense the begin with, and then Skull apparently admitted to it, nevermind the fact that there would be no scum motivation for her to admit it if she really was active lurking. I suppose he did Unvote her, but him fixating over trying to get a point for his team with the whole, "How does it feel now that Skull has admitted that she was lurking?" bit, which he pressed so much when I don't think not buying his flimsy argument isn't scummy.

Boro just had a very lazy, scummy entrance, and is my number two. He basically sheeped the Skull wagon and then Unvoted as soon as the tide showed signs of turning.

RM and Aero are just on their respective wagons for bad reasons. And I thought, eh, they could be scum, so agreed with Dash.

[Skelda]

Interesting reactions.

Skelda noticeably lied by distorting my action, by saying I was demanding people to do so. Only Scum intentionally distorts the truth. Sounds like frustrated Scum. Let's lynch Skelda. If I die, get him. Go go go.

If you think I don't think things through, RD, you seriously don't know who you are talking to. The Cop can investigate me if he or she wants, but that'd be a waste in my opinion. However, at any point in the game I'm willing to be mislynched as a VT in order to protect our PRs; you can take that to the bank.

I lied? I said that made you look town, and even so, that isn't exactly a lie.

[Rainbowdash]

Wake - Okay see, you either are not thinking this through enough or are missing it. Maybe the right word is impatient and that makes you look like you aren't thinking.

In an open setup, scum know what PRs they are looking for and are more likely to react strongly to VT tells, let alone VT claims. Take out the threats and move on. Cop also looks for these. My first reaction when I saw the VT claim was "boy that's a good investigation target" because that means im not hitting the doctor (the one role cop doesn't want to hit) and scum probably are not going to kill him (as VT is not a threat to scum). I don't think mafia makes this claim because its drawing the cop to them. SK I can see making it, but negligibility and such.

Basically I think as scum you would have realized that and not claimed VT. Its not like pulling a bluff and claiming VT in some setups hoping you don't get targeted. This claim means that you automatically become the correct investigation target, so if town plays correctly you are dead as scum. Major major difference.

[Skelda]

Also, is this whole sacrificing VTs thing common? It seems pretty idiotic. Shouldn't the job of the VT be to be killed by the scum, not to waste the town's lynches and increase the scum's chances of landing on PRs?

[Rainbowdash]

Yeah funny part is it might be arguable that the correct D1 move is to have the cop claim and to no lynch followed by doc shadowing them. Would have to check how that really works though. I have drawn cop in this setup a long long time ago and was debating an out the gate D2 claim, but doc ate N1 kill so never did that.

[Skelda]

Yeah funny part is it might be arguable that the correct D1 move is to have the cop claim and to no lynch followed by doc shadowing them. Would have to check how that really works though. I have drawn cop in this setup a long long time ago and was debating an out the gate D2 claim, but doc ate N1 kill so never did that.

I've heard of that. It all depends on if the Doc is liable to die soon, though. And only the Doc knows how big of a target they are.

[Titus]

Loranthe, you are accusing me of mastering faking town tells, starting a wagon on my scum buddy and being clumsy. This doesn't seem like a scum read at all but a town read being stretched to fit scum. Put down the vodka and we will talk more.

[don_johnson]

again. skelda is misrepresenting my original case on skull.

vote:skelda

[don_johnson]

Also, is this whole sacrificing VTs thing common? It seems pretty idiotic. Shouldn't the job of the VT be to be killed by the scum, not to waste the town's lynches and increase the scum's chances of landing on PRs?

although, score one in the sensible post column here.

[Loranthaceae]

Loranthe, you are accusing me of mastering faking town tells, starting a wagon on my scum buddy and being clumsy. This doesn't seem like a scum read at all but a town read being stretched to fit scum. Put down the vodka and we will talk more.

Yes

VOTE: don_johnson

More content needed from that slot.

This is hardly an incriminating way to vote, so you probably didn't anticipate it would build up. In your recent posts there doesn't seem to be any indication that you are still interested in your target. Did he answer all your questions or what? How has your read progressed?

[Loranthaceae]

@Wake you are an enigma to me, for how long have you been playing this game?

[Loranthaceae]

@Rainbowdash, why do you have a townread on these guys except for the fact that

they're posting decently

?

You kinda said it right there. They are posting decently.

Are you saying Titus is scum though because he is faking a towntell? Or is there more that im missing.

I meant to say a decent amount. If you think they're posting decently that's fine, I would appreciate you going into detail though. And why is Don in your scumpile?


Sincerely not knowing that there's an SK in the setup is uncharacteristic for scum because I believe it concerns them more. Yes, faking this behavior is easy and could get some townpoints if people don't catch on to it.

[Antihero]

It seems you don't want to go into detail. When I ask for people's reads of me, I'm gauging their responses. Providing very little context, instead of going into detail, well, sends mixed signals.

You too, Skelda, Antihero and Loranthaceae.

Why?

explaining townreads is really anti-town because if I explain what I think makes you town, scumbags are going to start trying to emulate that behavior. then i'll have to change what i think is town, and that's just annoying...

[jmo16mla]

prod dodge.

[Titus]

Loranthe, you are accusing me of mastering faking town tells, starting a wagon on my scum buddy and being clumsy. This doesn't seem like a scum read at all but a town read being stretched to fit scum. Put down the vodka and we will talk more.

Yes

Yeah, that doesn't sound the slightest bit conspiracy theorist at all. [/sarcasm]

VOTE: don_johnson

More content needed from that slot.

This is hardly an incriminating way to vote, so you probably didn't anticipate it would build up. In your recent posts there doesn't seem to be any indication that you are still interested in your target. Did he answer all your questions or what? How has your read progressed?

He hasn't actually said much of value even since that point. If he did, I'd be replying to him. All he's saying is lynch Skull. It's a lot of space but I don't see reasons or a thought process at all. More posts =/= more content.

[Nobody Special]

RachMarie has been prodded.

[aptil]

@Brian:

You voted for me but I will change it before the deadline probably.

This statement is so strange . I am now thinking one of them(HGH and TCold) has to be scum.

The first two posts from the start of the day give off a "make this person look bad" vibe, this one is the worst offender because it sets up a false dilemma (this supported by the fact that there's NO reason for the fact that one of HGH and TCold

has

to be scum).

i really do not understand what you mean by creating a false dilemma. I felt the post was strange and it did not seem to me that it was a town town interaction.

I like how as I'm reading through the thread and am about to make my first post, I stumble upon my prod. The game hasn't even been open for 48 hours yet. It's okay though.

Skull - Not liking her current motivation. Both SK's and Mafia are our enemies, not anti-town players. The townread on Ran is bad. Leaning scum.
TNE - Mild townvibes.
TCold - Just meh at this point.
Wake - The little tidbit is super town. Anyone who thinks otherwise should be lynched.
Elle - Seems town enough. I'm going to sheep. We need bigger wagons.

VOTE: HGH

Are you really that sure about wake being town?

Also didn't like this. I completely see what Brian sees and trying to call that into question feels scummy (especially since it was a matter of degree; he wasn't asking why Brian had the townread, he asked about why it was the intensity it was). In general, I find that scum tend to question townreads more, especially in the early games and especially obvious ones; they need to keep the paranoia alive.

Well Brian in his post mentions of early in this game it is. Then he calls out to any person trying to think he is not town should be an automatic lynch. You can see the wake post as town but the second sentence in that line was unnecessary so i wanted him to tell us how sure he was about it.

[Skullduggery]

This is one of the possible outcomes I was anticipating.

I sense that you are grasping at whatever you can, Skull.

Of course I'm grasping at what I can. I don't know your alignment and I'm trying to figure it out, smart guy.

Don't be so sure of me being Town.

At what point did I indicate that I was "sure" that you were Town? At what point did I indicate that I wasn't actively trying to figure out your alignment?

You make it seem that you're so sure of what I am, but you don't.

So you know that I'm Town then.

Either it's a bad Town mistake, or Scum seeking to curry favor. I hate it.

You hate it when people try to figure out your alignment?

With your sterling personality, yes.

Ha! You're one to talk. Do you even read the caustic bullshit you've been spewing? Do you know what a "hypocrite" is?

I did like how he scolded Skullduggery for her suggestion that we should be finding and lynching anti-Town players who happen to be Town

What the fuck? I never said this.

And even if she did, I think she might just not like playing games where people suspect her. I know I don't.

Nah, I'm fine with it if the suspicion is legitimate. That's not the case with this game. This game has been a case of people piling onto my wagon for one poor reason after another, and all my attempts to defend myself have been twisted around by either Scum looking for an easy mislynch or overzealous Townies who don't know what they're doing. That's the part that frustrates me.

what I stated was that "she's lurking in all her games sitewide", was not viable reasoning to forgive her for lurking in this game as it is just as easy and expected for someone to lurk sitewide when under pressure as it is to expect them to lurk in a single game. i was using logic to prevent skull from being let off the hook with illogical reasoning.

Skull, did you choose to lurk in all games because of this one? Is that what you meant?

To be fair, I'm only playing two games at the moment, and my other game is stuck in the mud (it's ongoing, obviously, so I won't say anything more about it). Also, saying that I was "lurking" implies that I was actually reading the thread during my absence. I wasn't. I stepped away from it altogether so I could calm down before saying something detrimental.

I don't think you think before you post, but I think as scum you would have realized that the "I am VT" claim is basically a "Please investigate me tonight" sign in flashing neon if it doesn't get you killed in the here and now. It sorta backed up my "hyper/untrustworthy" read I had been picking up.

That and your Aero post is actually fairly solid.

What do you think of the Wake88 snippet I quoted above -- "You make it seem that you're so sure of what I am, but you don't"? Does that seem like a Scum slip to you?

Skelda noticeably lied by distorting my action, by saying I was demanding people to do so. Only Scum intentionally distorts the truth. Sounds like frustrated Scum. Let's lynch Skelda. If I die, get him. Go go go.

And you don't vote for him because...?

explaining townreads is really anti-town because if I explain what I think makes you town, scumbags are going to start trying to emulate that behavior. then i'll have to change what i think is town, and that's just annoying...

This seems counter-intuitive. Explaining why you think a player is Town is anti-Town behavior? In that case, all Town reads would basically just boil down to gut reads if you can't explain them. And willingly withholding your opinions of the other players means that you're denying Town information, which in itself is anti-Town. I don't follow your logic here.

When you say that you'll have to change what you think is Town, what do you mean by that? The method you use to identify Town players seems like something that should remain consistent regardless of whether you have to explain it or not.

[Nobody Special]

BoroPhil has been prodded.

[BoroPhil]

I'm here, finding it hard to keep up with a game with so many unknown people. I'm going to ISO the people at the top of the votes and see what I come up with. bet you can't wait

[BoroPhil]

Skullduggery - 5 - aptil, elleheathen, Aeronaut, TCold, Loranthaceae

did not like wincon post at 103 - voted for her
agree with Titus in 191
443 - I can see her frustrations to a point, and I've used similar responses as town when I've been attacked

don_johnson - 4 - Titus, JacobSavage, Brian Skies, uctriton00

voted me early on, possibly retracted his vote a little too easily but I put zero pressure on him so this does seem pretty town. scum would have kept their vote there.

so this leads me to think don is town, therefore 1 of the people on him could well be scum.

Titus - agreed with him at 191 (as above), but then his vote states that we need more content from DJ. bit bizarre this as DJ has been pretty prominent (and posted reads for everyone)

Jacob Savage - zero activity, strange vote. seems outraged that he is a 'townie vote'

Brian Skies - now unvoted

Uctriton - not actually sure why he voted for Don. but I agreed with his thoughts on skullduggery.

Not sure on skull overall. but Jacob has done nothing and that vote was bizarre. Got sidetracked somewhat there, but I think this person needs some pressure.

VOTE: Jacob Savage

[Wake1]

You forgot someone, Borophil.

[Nobody Special]

Aeronaut has been prodded.

[Nobody Special]

Searching for a replacement for JacobSavage.