Mini 1503: Game of Things

[thenewearth]

Innocent Villager said "YOLO. It's true."

[Darthe]

Sorry I just don't understand how mafia works when you don't even remotely know the setup

Can someone explain otherwise im just going to keep being a burden to this game

Just like every game. You know there is scum, at least 1 but usually more. I really don't see what's the issue. You look for scum the same way

Its kind of odd. IV have you never played a non-open setup? I would think the majority of games are closed.

[havingfitz]

Guess - the mod said #6

[BT]

Quick preliminary thing before I catch up:

Jake, how do you feel about your own signature?

There's nothing town about that post by Darthe, which basically amounts to "oh crap I might be lynched for inactivity, so let me give a superficial and meaningless commentary to a few quotes".

And his earlier play didn't add up. He made a lot of random accusations of people fishing for towncred without drawing any real conclusions.

I thought this was too decisive. Serra also neglected to explain his reads like I asked him too (and now Jake).

Darthe are you done catching up? The fact that you started doing so but then just kind of stopped gives you no points here.

[Jake from State Farm]

not to mention the glaring fact that he wants me to give up my top scum read for a policy lynch...

[Jake from State Farm]

vote: serra

this be a better place for my vote

[Bert]

Guess: SafetyDance said Rosebud

[Jake from State Farm]

Oh that reminds me. I want to see your spoiler for Serra to see what you said about him

[Bert]

Make sure you have a wall nearby ready for you to punch before you go read that lol

And I am back so I should be here to continue catching up with this game <3

[serrapaladin]

Quick preliminary thing before I catch up:

Jake, how do you feel about your own signature?

There's nothing town about that post by Darthe, which basically amounts to "oh crap I might be lynched for inactivity, so let me give a superficial and meaningless commentary to a few quotes".

And his earlier play didn't add up. He made a lot of random accusations of people fishing for towncred without drawing any real conclusions.

I thought this was too decisive. Serra also neglected to explain his reads like I asked him too (and now Jake).

Darthe are you done catching up? The fact that you started doing so but then just kind of stopped gives you no points here.

Do you disagree then? Darthe's catchup post looks like a standard "crap I need content to make people back off" post, and I feel pretty good about my scumread on him, so it fits into the picture.

So Jake, I don't want you to policy lynch anyone, I just want you to help lynch Darthe, who is useless AND scum. Also, I'm getting particularly bored by you pointing out what you think I need to post. I think I've said at least something about ~all of my reads (again, compared to several players who are just happily lurking along), and I couldn't care less whether you reject the reads I had coming out of RVS. If you wanted to be constructive, you could for example suggest why you don't think Darthe is scum, rather than your current contrarian tunnelling.

[Jake from State Farm]

More stalling.

Here's the deal. Is he useless? Maybe.(though I could easily argue he's provided more info then you have) Does that mean he's scum ? No cause by my count we have at least 4 useless players. 5 if we count you.

Bottom line is Denying town information = scum. That's what you are guilty of.

The judge has spoken now people PLEASE sheep me and lynch Serra.

[Jake from State Farm]

Darth is a null read. Those with scum reads can't even explain why he's scum, yourself included yet you want me to explain why I don't think he's scum ? That's literally the most hilarious thing all game

[Jake from State Farm]

your current contrarian tunnelling.

oh I am the one tunneling?

[Dry-fit]

Interesting. The only time I played with TNE he was also very passive and was scum.

Can you provide a link to this game? I have two games with TNE...one where he is scum and one where he is town. They are markedly different IMO. This one looks to be in the middle...leaning town for me. The games are in my topics and are:
Open 492 modded by jmo16mla and Malakittens Castle.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=28221

In any case this guy is probably town.

Why? For being uninformed on info that is easily available?

For wanting to be useful. It's true mafia might want to put up appearances like that, but I think they'd be less interested in improving.

I should be getting in a full reread tomorrow.

[havingfitz]

Jake....assuming Ree is your top scum read....why would you leave an L-3 wagon on Ree for an L-6 wagon on a lesser read?

[Jake from State Farm]

Well if you are assuming that , yes it would make no sense for me to do that but since I already said I'd rather lynch Serra over Ree idk why anyone would assume that?

[havingfitz]

^ who were you talking about in 404?

[Jake from State Farm]

should have been *wanted* since that occurred in the past.

[SafetyDance]

Sorry guys but I am now at /LA indefinitely as I can only access at work until laptop is fixed. I'm not sure what I will do on the weekend, will think of something.

BT, JFSF, Serra, Bert, hfitz I feel are town.

TIP, TNE, MR are campaigning their own town-ness. Which is flat out wrong and doesn't help reading their slot. Happy to lynch from here.

Darth, Aero, Dry, IV are null to gut scum reads that need to be refined.

UNVOTE

for the moment.

I am not understanding why 'The Plan' is not being followed consistently either. It loses all meaning if PoE becomes easier.

GUESS: TIP said "Rosebud"

[Bert]

I am not understanding why 'The Plan' is not being followed consistently either. It loses all meaning if PoE becomes easier.

Yes, the blatant perpetrating (not naming names <3) is kinda disappointing.

[Mr_Ree]

Sorry guys but I am now at /LA indefinitely as I can only access at work until laptop is fixed. I'm not sure what I will do on the weekend, will think of something.

BT, JFSF, Serra, Bert, hfitz I feel are town.

TIP, TNE, MR are campaigning their own town-ness. Which is flat out wrong and doesn't help reading their slot. Happy to lynch from here.

Darth, Aero, Dry, IV are null to gut scum reads that need to be refined.

UNVOTE

for the moment.

I am not understanding why 'The Plan' is not being followed consistently either. It loses all meaning if PoE becomes easier.

GUESS: TIP said "Rosebud"

Do you feel Jake is campaigning his own townieness?

If yes, Why did you not include him? If no, why not?

Why are you willing to Lynch more than half the playerlist? I'm assuming you are willing to Lynch your null scum reads as well. Correct me if I'm wrong there.

Wouldn't any townie about to be lynched say they were town? Please quote the posts I campaign my towniness.

@Jake, please let Safety answer for himself.

[innocentvillager]

dodge

[innocentvillager]

Sorry I just don't understand how mafia works when you don't even remotely know the setup

Can someone explain otherwise im just going to keep being a burden to this game

Just like every game. You know there is scum, at least 1 but usually more. I really don't see what's the issue. You look for scum the same way

Its kind of odd. IV have you never played a non-open setup? I would think the majority of games are closed.

Never. Just Open and Newbie..

[Darthe]

Sera, why does everyone need to post before you explain your reads? That looks like a stalling tactic.

This NEVER got touched.

Jake, the one thing I find strong-ish about the Safety wagon is that his Ree vote really is bad - his reaction to getting the facts wrong is to adopt a new approach and carry on. Not gonna argue against a gut read, though. Think you can give a reference? Think anyone else can back you up on it?

Why can't you argue a gut read? Certainly you can't tell a player their own thoughts/opinions but you can disagree with the conclusions. In any case I agree about the Safety wagon of the time.

By the by, the tactic of announcing different things for the same individual is playing into scummy hands. That eliminates accountability for any potential role and makes the game harder.

Let's go ahead and stop, yeah?

I hold to this adamantly.

You still haven't explained how any of my posts are anti town. You need to justify those reads. You haven't yet. Why are YOU stalling? How do my posts hurt town? How do my posts support scum? Explain. If stalling is a scum tactic, why are you doing it?

ORLY?

Vote: Mr. Ree

only scum is going to RESPOND to my posts where I explain how his posts are anti-town and where I justify my reads and then turn around and accuse me of not doing it and say I am stalling.

Great post, cept the last line is really assumptive.

Oh? Really?

None of that explained how my posts were specifically anti town. I asked you to explain what made them anti town, instead you gave me a pbp analysis. Not only that, you didn't respond to any of my points regarding those posts.

I asked you to show me posts that hurt town and the possible justification behind them. If that post can only hurt town, it's anti town. If a post can have town motivation, it's not.

Similarly, calling something scummy, does not make it scummy simply on principal alone. Something is scummy if only scum has a reason to do it. Something both alignments would do is null. Something only town would post is a town post.

Justify why any of those posts wouldn't have come from town Ree.

@TNE, Serra, Bert, Fitz and anyone else familiar with my play, feel free to comment on his answers.

and a very unclean response that forgoes reason in favor of lego logic (which is to say stacking statements to lead a conclusion that isn't real)

and do me a favor, don't talk to me anymore. Thanks

This is both anti town and scummy. Thanks for the example.

Anti town because it limits your ability to get reads and scummy because it's something only scum who was afraid of getting caught by his own arguments would say to his accuser.

and yes, I am now calling you scum

VOTE: Jake from State Farm

Guess Aeronaut said "this is my body double

Eww again, if you can make the argument about assurity with reads that you made earlier then how can you refute Jake for not wanting to waste his time once he has a certain read? Logically you can't.

@BT....why do I suspect TIP:

When I got through with my read I stated what was essentially gut suspicions towards TIP and Darthe (and a TBD on Ree).  Looking at TIP's ISo...I see no posting of any value.  In fact...out of 29 posts he's only got two that I would say are putting forth any effort or genuine opinion (#216 and #262)...and those are debatable.  He spends trys to get people to believe Dry-Fit is scum and prompts people to vote Dry-Fit despite the fact he never votes Dry-Fit himself or expresses any reasoning for Dry-Fit being scum.  As is absent in any of his other votes.  The towniest thing he has done from my pov is his brief push on Darthe...which has now shifted to Ree for what reasons remains to be seen (a tbd TIP scumtell apparently). 

I still need to ISO Darthe and I also need to look and see what all the fuss on Ree is.  Two of my leaning town are on him along with two I suspect.  So based on that I'm leaning Ree as town until further review.

VOTE: TheIrishPope

Also starting to garner suspicions from me for reasons I prefer not to use (i.e. lurking) are Aeronaut, Dry-Fit, Darthe and innocentvillager.

In fact...screw that...at least TIP is posting and will provide more data to parse.

VOTE: Darthe

P.edit...Seriously....indefinite amount of time? That's pretty crap...and vague. ffs

This post are bad. TIP is getting a lot of heat for his attitude actually. I can only sorta see why, at least at this point. Also, IIoA and how can you vote me for not being around much when you're the lowest poster in the game at this point?

TIP scum
Safety null
Jake town
Dry null-scum
Aero missing
serra gut-null-town
Ree town
inno missing
Bert gut-null-scum
fitz lurk-scum
Darthe scum
BT town

VOTE: TIP

Especially how he does "Dry is scum. But I'm voting Darthe"

If TIP ever flips town, then it'd be darthe who'd be scum.

But I'm p-sure it would be the other way around

Like this post. Tend to disagree with "if this player ___ then this player ___" statements but it is fair that we are fairly linkable so yeah.

So I'm the most obvtown here.

Because it's true.
Am I a major wagon? No.
Have I ever been a major wagon? No.
Does anyone suspect me? No.

I think I hate you.

The pope knows how to sacrifice himself for the good on many.

Vote TIP for greater justice

TIP is like seriously town. And Darthe is like serious scum.

But Why though?

I really could see TIP for his attitude and efforts to look more important to the town than his posts actually show him to be, Serra for things like the above and my statement on page 7 or 8, and Ree for gut and a few inconsistencies that I have noted/ others have noted.

Newearth looks slight town to me
Jake is town
Safety Dance is town
Dry fit looks slight town
Bert is meh, maybe the slightest bit moer town than null
Same with BT in my mind

That's my reads to here.

[Dry-fit]

Mr_Ree looks a lot scummier on a reread.

If you are town, wouldn't you WANT a PR? Bad decision or not, information is information. The contradiction of saying you don't want it while simultaneously trying for it is interesting to say the least and doesn't mesh with what you are saying.

I mean it is a contradiction, but is it a contradiction particularly likely to come from scum? No. It's the kind of play quirk a lot of players of either alignment might have. I don't think this is real suspicion.

I like to figure out those I'm playing with. I do so by placing people out of their comfort zone and asking questions I can't figure out/I already know and analyzing responses. I like to have an accurate profile to read players by.

You haven't really been doing this. And when Jake called you out on it, you said that you have been doing it, but only with him. I don't find that a satisfactory answer, what about the other players?

Anti town because it limits your ability to get reads and scummy because it's something only scum who was afraid of getting caught by his own arguments would say to his accuser.

Again, a bad point. This shows either a lack of imagination or fake concern.

I guess I have to outline how Jakes points against me also apply to him. Yay! I love wall battles!

Geez, there's no such thing as hypocrisy in scumhinting. Seriously I need to make a Mafia Discussion thread about this one of these days.

Darthe’s lack of response to the wagon on him (and the corresponding apathy) kinda bothers me, but it’s a small
sample size and it’s hard to tell if he’s really just having trouble getting into the game like I am or doesn’t like playing scum, is coasting for whatever reason, etc. who knows

Don't you think you'd have an easier time getting into the game if people were forming wagons on you, directing questions at you and giving their reactions to your thought process?

My top 2 suspects are Darthe and Ree. They're interchangeable in terms of strength right now. A bit behind in third is thenewearth.