Newbie 1449: Return of the Van [Game Over!]

[Grimgroove]

Keep in mind that you were the one bringing up a doctor, capitalized even. I was merely talking like a psychiatrist, after you had voiced difficulties with expressing your thoughts.

[Trisania]

^ Psychiatrists are still doctors. And it was capitalized to denote the role in the game.

[WBOCampfire1104]

FoS means finger of suspicion. Please elaborate your choice or I'll treat you like another sheep on my wagon.

Ok, I guess I would probably do the same thing in your situation. I won't FoS you - for now...

[WBOCampfire1104]

And, is your avatar Kaiba? That would be boss.

[thiscantgowrong]

@thiscantgowrong

You speak of humility, which was what made you place a vote and go with the wisdom of the board after all. Why didn't you show said humility after GuyInFreezer, the IC, specifically said in his first post that lynching on Day 1 is a must?

Hold up! I was NOT against a lynch on day one! Re-read my first post. I was against official voting that might lead to an accidental hammer. BIG DIFFERENCE!

[Trisania]

@thiscantgowrong

You speak of humility, which was what made you place a vote and go with the wisdom of the board after all. Why didn't you show said humility after GuyInFreezer, the IC, specifically said in his first post that lynching on Day 1 is a must?

Hold up! I was NOT against a lynch on day one! Re-read my first post. I was against official voting that might lead to an accidental hammer. BIG DIFFERENCE!

Your reaction just now seems so innocent and indignant that I'm almost inclined to believe you're a townie.

[thiscantgowrong]

thiscantgowrong states he is a noob, but is concieving like a pro. Also he was against RVS. If he isn't really a noob, I'd have to say that would be in order to make scum harder to find.

I'm clearly not conceiving like a pro if I've already gotten to one vote away from lynch TWICE. But if I'm making scum harder to find why would I do that in this manner? If I am scum then I'm only protecting one other person max which is rather risky to do before even a single town person is dead. If I'm town I have no incentive to protect scum. Also, if I'm scum I likely would have conferred with my fellow mafia person who could be a pro and quite probably would have told me to not post anything that brings too much attention to myself. Even a fellow noob would have likely made me think posting crazy theory craft is a bad idea. As I've said, the potential for people to start giving information about themselves and the focus on half of the mafia makes the "naive mafia" theory mean I have to be REALLY naive.

Now I've got a few other assessments so far. I'm still suspicious of Cervantes (for reasons established earlier), but Trisania's actions say "new scum" to me. She has enough posts to be active and not targeted for being too quiet, but she's also been a bit sudden at changing her mind on strategy with weak explanations for doing so. In addition, that whole trying to cast suspicion on Grimsgroove seems a bit questionable to me (as I state below, I think Grim is likely town). However, I don't think that both Cervantes and Trisania would be scum together as Cervantes would probably be advising Tri to vote along with him in a manner that seems to just be bandwagon jumping. That also speaks against a Cervantes-WBO team. I think Grimsgroove is likely town, his reasoning, though I obviously don't fully agree with it, hasn't seemed forced or overly aggressive towards people I know are town (aka me). Montosh has been kind of quiet and bandwagony, that says either really new town or new scum lying low (he might be lying low enough to be partners with Cervantes if the latter is scum and the decision to get me off L-1 would look good in that regard).

[Trisania]

^Actually, I doubt Grimsgroove is mafia, since he did that shrink act which sort of implied he is Doc. However, that would be unlikely because claiming that role this early is suicidal and just asking the mafia to kill him. He can't also be mafia claiming doctor, because it's also too early for them to be doing that, since it would only cast suspicion upon him. Therefore, he is likely to be just a VT.

[Montosh]

thiscantgowrong states he is a noob, but is concieving like a pro. Also he was against RVS. If he isn't really a noob, I'd have to say that would be in order to make scum harder to find.

I'm clearly not conceiving like a pro if I've already gotten to one vote away from lynch TWICE. But if I'm making scum harder to find why would I do that in this manner? If I am scum then I'm only protecting one other person max which is rather risky to do before even a single town person is dead. If I'm town I have no incentive to protect scum. Also, if I'm scum I likely would have conferred with my fellow mafia person who could be a pro and quite probably would have told me to not post anything that brings too much attention to myself. Even a fellow noob would have likely made me think posting crazy theory craft is a bad idea. As I've said, the potential for people to start giving information about themselves and the focus on half of the mafia makes the "naive mafia" theory mean I have to be REALLY naive.

Your analysis shows you're obviously not that new to this game. Also the fact that you got to L-1 twice says nothing about how "pro" you are, it is more a reflection on newbiness of others.

"I likely would have conferred with my fellow mafia person who could be a pro and quite probably would have told me to not post anything that brings too much attention to myself" huh? I mean, this is a newbie game, the whole point is that most of us are not "pros". Why would you assume a scum partner would be pro?

And please stop telling us how much of a "noob" you are. And I don't get why posting theories is a bad idea?

"As I've said, the potential for people to start giving information about themselves and the focus on half of the mafia makes the "naive mafia" theory mean I have to be REALLY naive." What? Could you elaborate on this point?

[WBOCampfire1104]

VOTE: thiscantgowrong

Just wanted to clarify.

[thiscantgowrong]

Your analysis shows you're obviously not that new to this game. Also the fact that you got to L-1 twice says nothing about how "pro" you are, it is more a reflection on newbiness of others.

A real pro should be able to account to some extent for the newness of other players.

"I likely would have conferred with my fellow mafia person who could be a pro and quite probably would have told me to not post anything that brings too much attention to myself" huh? I mean, this is a newbie game, the whole point is that most of us are not "pros". Why would you assume a scum partner would be pro?

I didn't. I said "could be" and then went on to also account for the possibility of a non-pro partner. Also 4/9 players are at least SEs implying that there's a rather good chance at least one scum is experienced.

And please stop telling us how much of a "noob" you are. And I don't get why posting theories is a bad idea?

"As I've said, the potential for people to start giving information about themselves and the focus on half of the mafia makes the "naive mafia" theory mean I have to be REALLY naive." What? Could you elaborate on this point?

I'll cover both these questions here. Posting theories brings attention to yourself very early. Since we have SEs and an IC, posting a heavily anti-town theory is unlikely to be widely adopted as the SEs and IC will shoot it down quickly (as actually happened). If I am a scum, bringing this attention to myself is dangerous. Even if some players mark the theory posting as foolish town stuff, the prominence involved in that will make others begin to suspect I am scum (as is obviously happening). This is even more dangerous for scum when there could be a tracker or even worse a cop who might investigate me at night if I survived the first day. As the Japanese saying goes "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down."

As town however, it can be a good idea as long as the controversy it generates reveals things about various players.

Also I'm a bit suspicious that you only decided to make a substantial post after I cast even a little suspicion your way (especially when I clearly had two more prominent potential targets in mind). That seems to be a bit of a scum over-reaction to me.

Finally, at WBO, I believe we all knew that, this just kind of makes it seem at a quick glance like I was put on L-1 again.

[Trisania]

I just remembered:

...Trisania's actions say "new scum" to me. She has enough posts to be active and not targeted for being too quiet, but she's also been a bit sudden at changing her mind on strategy with weak explanations for doing so.

...ouch. @thiscantgowrong,

[Trisania]

...to continue my unfinished-but-already-submitted-post, @thiscantgowrong, please cite instances wherein I kept changing my mind but only provided weak explanations, for I'll gladly elaborate things for you.

[thenewearth]

Oh one correction, the first two days and nights would be 4 townie kills zero mafia kills. I forgot to add the second night. Assuming we don't have a vigilante.

Well one, we don't have a vigilante

Two, post #6 sounds something that would lineup a mislynch

And three, assumption of both days being a mislynch supports number 2

@thiscantgowrong

You're either a naive newbie scum or an overly excited townie. For the time being I'm gonna stick with the first one.

VOTE: thiscantgowrong

Rvs is a standard starting procedure. I don't really see how one vote can lead to quickhammer.
I'm not even gonna comment on the thing about zipperflesh. That was just bad.

This is town

If there is no threat of being lynched, then scum won't be pressured into making a mistake. Your suggestion is extremely anti town, but I don't think that makes you scum.

UNVOTE: montosh

VOTE: Cervantes

First scum read of the game.

And you're wrong

Alrighty. I figure your general game advice is likely to be good zipper (or called out by the other ICs/SEs if it's biased), but I don't know whether to trust your assessments of particular players yet. I'd like to try and start to find that out however.

VOTE: Cervantes

If Cervantes provides a good defense of himself then we get info. If he gets lynched and he's town then I at least get info to be somewhat mistrustful of your tells. If he's lynched and he's mafia then I think it's highly likely you're town because getting a teammate lynched on day 1 before you even know if there's a cop that could out you anyways seems insanely risky.

So Cervantes, the ball's in your court.

I can already see a team forming

For, one, how much thiscantgrow obviously trusts zipperflesh just after he explaind how he was "leaning on a lynch". And the fact that he never voted him, BUT was willing to vote cervantes

Two, another mislynch assumption

[thenewearth]

VOTE: thiscantgowrong

Just wanted to clarify.

WE KNOW ALREADY!!! YOU JUST PUT HIM IN L-1 WITHOUT READING ANYTHING, HAVEN'T YOU?!

SO KEEP QUIET

>.>

[thenewearth]

Still I'd prefer you picked a vote. You don't need solid reads yet, RVS contains the word "random" for a reason. You don't acquire more information by not voting.
You mentioned that "you live in a different time zone". Different from whom? Aren't we all living in various timezones?

My timezone is GMT +8, like in Asia. I assume you guys live around America?

VOTE: thiscantgowrong
Based on how others view him and on reviewing his posts, he does seem eager to sow chaos. I also didn't like his suggestion of actually not voting yet but merely posting the people we suspect, since it implies fear of having everyone stand by their suspicions. We can always unvote someone, so it's not necessary to not write the names in bold.

@Grimgrove:
I guess it can't be helped that you find me suspicious. I'm not that good at expressing my thoughts.

I would have said this was opportunity vote...

But today this looks more like a "go with the scummiest" vote.

[GuyInFreezer]

Gherty guiyts I trhgionmlk iom wastewd sdo klewrt me slkewep asnmd csartchj uop lkastere k?

[Cervantes]

You could've just gone to sleep and responded after waking up. Unless you wanted us to see how much of a party man you are.

[thenewearth]

He's prod dodging.

And I do not think he's partying :/

So go to sleep GiF

[Cervantes]

Alrighty then.
@WBO could you explain to me why do you accuse people so carelessly? You wanted to FoS me but you changed your mind when I asked for reasons. Immediatelly after you've jumped on thiscantgowrong who is on the other side of barricade. Also with no explanation. This doesn't seem logical.

[Trisania]

Wagon, wagon! Free ride on a wagon!

[WBOCampfire1104]

@Cervantes:
I kind of explained his suspiciousness in posts #43-44, but I did a sloppy job, I'll admit. My main reason for voting him was because he wanted to stop RVS, which is basically gaguing reactions from other players early on. He would want to stop that, afraid that he (or his partner) would be lynched early. Also he said he was a noob, but his overviews are very, very long. Also, in post #60, he says "A real pro should be able to account to some extent to the newness of other players." You said YOU WERE a noob. Noobs both wouldn't know and not really be able to say things like that. The second vote was just to clarify, but, as I start to look into more players, I'll see if anyone else is convincing.

And the reason I would have FoS'd you is because when you first voted for thiscantgowrong, it seemed overly aggresive. But I realize I would have done the exact same thing, had I not been late to post.

Final results: thiscantgowrong: scum. Very scum
Cervantes: Kind of aggresive, but very right. (And his avatar is fricken Kaiba.)
Still to look at other players.

[Cervantes]

Thanks for explanation.
(Off-topic, just to clarify: Sorry to disappoint you but my avatar isn't Kaiba...)
Speaking of avatars, it will be much appreciated if you could get one yourself.

[zipperflesh]

@thenewearth how does cervantes post give him town pants?

[Trisania]

I'm wondering... based on your experience, how do you "tell" if a person is mafia or town?

(This is addressed to everyone)