Newbie 1449: Return of the Van [Game Over!]

[Grimgroove]

Hmm. If I unintentionally fished for the Doc role, at least it was mitigated by the fact that I think Grim ISN'T the doctor.

These kind of thoughts are best kept to yourself as they don't help town in any way. Role speculation on town is scum's job and there's no need to help them with it.

I am getting quite a strong townread from you though, because I think as scum you would actually be more careful with sharing these thoughts. Don't make it a habit though, it's very rare that anti-town behavior earns you a townread.

[Grimgroove]

@thiscantgowrong:

Anyway, I'll unvote you eventually, I'm just waiting for that one thing that will tell me you're town.

What?

Why would you say that as town?

I have a gut feel he's town. However, since it's just a gut feel, I need proof of his innocence. If I can't see any, then my vote stays.

How are your gut feels on others?

[Grimgroove]

VOTE: GuyInFreezer

His entrance has been defending thiscantgowrong in a dubious way and on dubious grounds, fluff involving him boasting in all the respect he's getting from newbies and some general game-theory (last thing is the IC's job, but that doesn't mean that excludes him from participating more actively and proactively).

You have to expect more from him.

[Grimgroove]

I'll admit that earlier I was doing terrible at catching up, I made vague decisions and explained only when asked to. My bad. I'm starting now to go in-depth to hunt scum.

What was it that made you change your ways?

[Trisania]

Hmm. If I unintentionally fished for the Doc role, at least it was mitigated by the fact that I think Grim ISN'T the doctor.

These kind of thoughts are best kept to yourself as they don't help town in any way. Role speculation on town is scum's job and there's no need to help them with it.

I am getting quite a strong townread from you though, because I think as scum you would actually be more careful with sharing these thoughts. Don't make it a habit though, it's very rare that anti-town behavior earns you a townread.

Sorry, it won't happen again.

On gut feels:
Cervantes - leaning scum. I'll read his ISO to check.
Montosh - null? He was sort of leaning scum, but he blasted thiscantgowrong with a wall so now I'm not sure.
WBO - town. He seems nice. :/
zipper - null. I have yet to read his ISO.
You - town.
TNE - null. Same as zipper.
GiF - town. But damn, I

stalked

read his 1339 game as scum, and he is good! So we should be cautious.

These are just gut feels, so don't burn me at the stake for this. I'll read all your ISOs when I get home, since it's annoying to read and post walls using my phone.

[thenewearth]

@thenewearth how does cervantes post give him town pants?

Attacks on thiscantgrow and you says everything
Just look at the ISO

And btw
What makes you think he's scum?

[Untrod Tripod]

hayatoBL replaces Montosh

[WBOCampfire1104]

I'll admit that earlier I was doing terrible at catching up, I made vague decisions and explained only when asked to. My bad. I'm starting now to go in-depth to hunt scum.

What was it that made you change your ways?

I don't really know. I just started out by making a quick post, and I saw thiscantgowrong's wagon and jumped on. Nobody else got attention until later, when I realized how out-of-read I was.

[Grimgroove]

Hmm. If I unintentionally fished for the Doc role, at least it was mitigated by the fact that I think Grim ISN'T the doctor.

These kind of thoughts are best kept to yourself as they don't help town in any way. Role speculation on town is scum's job and there's no need to help them with it.

I am getting quite a strong townread from you though, because I think as scum you would actually be more careful with sharing these thoughts. Don't make it a habit though, it's very rare that anti-town behavior earns you a townread.

Sorry, it won't happen again.

On gut feels:
Cervantes - leaning scum. I'll read his ISO to check.
Montosh - null? He was sort of leaning scum, but he blasted thiscantgowrong with a wall so now I'm not sure.
WBO - town. He seems nice. :/
zipper - null. I have yet to read his ISO.
You - town.
TNE - null. Same as zipper.
GiF - town. But damn, I

stalked

read his 1339 game as scum, and he is good! So we should be cautious.

These are just gut feels, so don't burn me at the stake for this. I'll read all your ISOs when I get home, since it's annoying to read and post walls using my phone.

Why do you vote thiscantgowrong, on whom you claim to have a gut townread (post 81, when you have other people who make a less favorable impression on you? (Cervantes most notably, but also the null-reads in your list).

[WBOCampfire1104]

Hmm. If I unintentionally fished for the Doc role, at least it was mitigated by the fact that I think Grim ISN'T the doctor.

These kind of thoughts are best kept to yourself as they don't help town in any way. Role speculation on town is scum's job and there's no need to help them with it.

I am getting quite a strong townread from you though, because I think as scum you would actually be more careful with sharing these thoughts. Don't make it a habit though, it's very rare that anti-town behavior earns you a townread.

Sorry, it won't happen again.

On gut feels:
Cervantes - leaning scum. I'll read his ISO to check.
Montosh - null? He was sort of leaning scum, but he blasted thiscantgowrong with a wall so now I'm not sure.
WBO - town. He seems nice. :/
zipper - null. I have yet to read his ISueO.
You - town.
TNE - null. Same as zipper.
GiF - town. But damn, I

stalked

read his 1339 game as scum, and he is good! So we should be cautious.

These are just gut feels, so don't burn me at the stake for this. I'll read all your ISOs when I get home, since it's annoying to read and post walls using my phone.

You read 1339? It WAS amazing. ANYONE VOTING GUYINFREEZER UNVOTE NOW Why? Because, well, read 1339. He was amazing. He probably just slipped up, or he's scum and is protecting other scum by forcing a wagon to him. But if he gets lynched Day 1, the chances are too high we've lost a very valuable player for town.

[Grimgroove]

Meta isn't a reason to unvote anyone.
If he acts his legendary amazing town-self he'll be able to change my mind no problem.

[GuyInFreezer]

Why did you choose to address these points in a sub-par fashion, after thiscantgowrong already addressed them himself in a much more satisfactory way?

1. No. It hints at appeasement and that's definitely not null.
2. Being inconsistent is not a playstyle. Paying attention to detail in one aspect of the game and not doing so in the other is an inconsistency in behavior and points to said behavior being forced/unnatural.
3. That's not an argument to roll your eyes at. "Playing the newbie"-card is a common scum-tactic, especially in these games. Just because thiscantgowrong does it more subtly than Trisiana doesn't mean he's not doing it.

Because when I posted that, that was as far as I caught up at the time!

1. Abandoning theories quite quickly aren't quite the same as abandoning the reads quite quickly. Abandoning theories quickly is null, while abandoning reads (most of the time, to agree with someone else's reads) quickly have some problem.
2. I'm gonna admit that I didn't fully read your point #2. So consider that I had no idea what I was talking about here.
3. However, what he pulled that "newb-card" on was on the theory. Dealing with theories is quite different from dealing with reads/stances.

[hayatoBL]

Hi Everybody.

Hi TNE, I suck in the last game, but I'll do better this time.

I'll start with doing some re-read. Until I'm finished with reading, I won't be responding to anyone's question or comments.

[GuyInFreezer]

I am getting quite a strong townread from you though, because I think as scum you would actually be more careful with sharing these thoughts. Don't make it a habit though, it's very rare that anti-town behavior earns you a townread.

Because it's too scummy to be scum, right?

Spoiler: Rant

"Too scummy to be scum" has been a widely-known logical fallacy. But the fun thing is this fallacy usually works well on newbies. However, it is the best to not read someone as town just because "it's too scummy to be done by scum," because it will bite back at you eventually. But then I agree with Grimgroove on his point.

Man, what a shabby fallacy.

[Grimgroove]

Post 100 was not a "too scummy to be scum"-reasoning. Scum wouldn't do this out in the open and save that kind of talk for their QT, so it's not scummy to begin with for precisely that reason.

[Trisania]

Hmm. If I unintentionally fished for the Doc role, at least it was mitigated by the fact that I think Grim ISN'T the doctor.

These kind of thoughts are best kept to yourself as they don't help town in any way. Role speculation on town is scum's job and there's no need to help them with it.

I am getting quite a strong townread from you though, because I think as scum you would actually be more careful with sharing these thoughts. Don't make it a habit though, it's very rare that anti-town behavior earns you a townread.

Sorry, it won't happen again.

On gut feels:
Cervantes - leaning scum. I'll read his ISO to check.
Montosh - null? He was sort of leaning scum, but he blasted thiscantgowrong with a wall so now I'm not sure.
WBO - town. He seems nice. :/
zipper - null. I have yet to read his ISO.
You - town.
TNE - null. Same as zipper.
GiF - town. But damn, I

stalked

read his 1339 game as scum, and he is good! So we should be cautious.

These are just gut feels, so don't burn me at the stake for this. I'll read all your ISOs when I get home, since it's annoying to read and post walls using my phone.

Why do you vote thiscantgowrong, on whom you claim to have a gut townread (post 81, when you have other people who make a less favorable impression on you? (Cervantes most notably, but also the null-reads in your list).

Still reading ISOs. Wait.

[GuyInFreezer]

His entrance has been defending thiscantgowrong in a dubious way and on dubious grounds¹, fluff involving him boasting in all the respect he's getting from newbies and some general game-theory² (last thing is the IC's job, but that doesn't mean that excludes him from participating more actively and proactively).

You have to expect more from him.³

1. I think it's too early to peg my defense as "dubious" when I haven't refuted your points yet.
2. I think you're just jealous that you didn't get to do your RVS (But srsly. Fluff? The only fluff I wrote was "I like you" post. And that's not even boasting.) Although, to be honest, I made no effort to read people yesterday. Not during the hangover.
3. Damn straight.

[GuyInFreezer]

Post 100 was not a "too scummy to be scum"-reasoning. Scum wouldn't do this out in the open and save that kind of talk for their QT, so it's not scummy to begin with for precisely that reason.

"Rolefishing is scummy."
"But I don't think scum would rolefish out in the open when they can use QT." <=> "It's too scummy for scum to rolefish out in the open."
"Therefore it felt townish." <=> "So he's probably town."

At least, that's how I interpreted it.

[Trisania]

*sigh* It's hard to get a read on GiF. His posts are mostly IC mode, and berating me for my stupidity. His non-IC posts are generalized statements and can either lean to highly-experienced town or scheming scum. I still haven't gotten over the 1339 game, he impressed me so much that I'd probably NK'd or mislynched if I were in that game with him.

(He is so good it's scary)

Reading: Null.

Montosh barely posted, so there's not much to read from him. However, he asked thiscantgowrong twice for an explanation in his defense, which seems to be pro-town. (And I wanna correct myself. He didn't blast thiscant with a wall. A semi-wall, maybe?) Anyway, since he's about to be replaced, it wouldn't matter much what I read. Let's just hope his replacement is more active. For now, my read is: Leaning town.

Zipperflesh changed votes twice without giving much explanation on doing so. He saw thiscantgowrong as an easy target early in the game, which is weird considering we just started (and on RVS, at that) and we're supposed to be in the dark about people's roles, unless he is scum. Also, he voted for me just because he doesn't like my answer to his question. He could've at least stated why he finds it unacceptable. So, for me he is Leaning scum.

I think Cervantes is town. He doesn't post walls, but gave decent explanations whenever he was asked to clarify his opinions. Also, he encouraged me to vote, which is town-ish since even a mislynch is better than a no lynch. (Unless he is mafia trying tomappear town). Reading: Town.

*sigh* thiscantgowrong is, as much as it pains me to admit, he is town. The reason is that he boldly goes after other players (i.e. me), even though almost half the players think he is scum. He refuted my posts and even questioned them, which appears townish. But what I'm looking for from him is the townie's frustration at being the potential mislynch. Because if a person is innocent, he/she wouldn't go down without a fight. But whatever, his rebuttal on my posts constitutes a town action. I think. UNVOTE: thiscantgowrong. Don't disappoint me, townie.

Grimgroove asked

a lot of

questions, hinting that he wants to gather as much info as possible for his scumhunt. He also unvoted thiscantbewrong when he was already at L-1 instead of quick hammering him. This action screams town, because scum would notwant to stall the voting process. He did not take advantage of the opportunity to lynch.

TNE doesn't have substantial posts to go by, so I absolutely read him. *sob*. Reading: Null.

WBO is probably town. He gave decent reads on anyone, and even referenced a completed game on how GiF plays. Even if GiF is town for me for now, WBO gave me an excellent reference on how to read players. No scum would link a game on how to act town. Their secret would be exposed! Reading: Town.

[zipperflesh]

I'm down with GiF. He has much of the same thoughts as I have on TCGW. He just states them in a much more eloquent way thou.

[GuyInFreezer]

Also TNE is probably scum.

P-Edit: Down with what, exactly?

[GuyInFreezer]

Oh one correction, the first two days and nights would be 4 townie kills zero mafia kills. I forgot to add the second night. Assuming we don't have a vigilante.

Well one, we don't have a vigilante

Two, post #6 sounds something that would lineup a mislynch

And three, assumption of both days being a mislynch supports number 2

@thiscantgowrong

You're either a naive newbie scum or an overly excited townie. For the time being I'm gonna stick with the first one.

VOTE: thiscantgowrong

Rvs is a standard starting procedure. I don't really see how one vote can lead to quickhammer.
I'm not even gonna comment on the thing about zipperflesh. That was just bad.

This is town

If there is no threat of being lynched, then scum won't be pressured into making a mistake. Your suggestion is extremely anti town, but I don't think that makes you scum.

UNVOTE: montosh

VOTE: Cervantes

First scum read of the game.

And you're wrong

Alrighty. I figure your general game advice is likely to be good zipper (or called out by the other ICs/SEs if it's biased), but I don't know whether to trust your assessments of particular players yet. I'd like to try and start to find that out however.

VOTE: Cervantes

If Cervantes provides a good defense of himself then we get info. If he gets lynched and he's town then I at least get info to be somewhat mistrustful of your tells. If he's lynched and he's mafia then I think it's highly likely you're town because getting a teammate lynched on day 1 before you even know if there's a cop that could out you anyways seems insanely risky.

So Cervantes, the ball's in your court.

I can already see a team forming

For, one, how much thiscantgrow obviously trusts zipperflesh just after he explaind how he was "leaning on a lynch". And the fact that he never voted him, BUT was willing to vote cervantes

Two, another mislynch assumption

If he was town, something would've been present at the bottom of this post.
What would that be?

[GuyInFreezer]

Also it's interesting to note that TCGW and Trisania has a trait in common that makes me townread them: transparency.

[zipperflesh]

I read you as town.

[Trisania]

Also it's interesting to note that TCGW and Trisania has a trait in common that makes me townread them: transparency.

Thank goodness! I've been having a hard time always typing "thiscantgowrong". Ugh, from now on he'll be tcgw. Thanks, GiF!