The Legend of Zelda: Defense of Hyrule (Night Eight)

[JKLM]

Sorry to burst the bubble but their really is a third party. ALIGNMENT determines kill flavor. And that isn't our kill flavor. This will be proved tomorrow.
Which is an other alarming issue: night 2 was supposed to be our kill. That means we have ANOTHER kind of player that's changing things. The teams switch off every other night as to who gets a kill.

That third party complicates things as to what it's ability is.

I'd start looking to ISO if you want my opinion. In fact please just shoot him.

[ActionDan]

I also don't think he's capable of knowing he was sage scum and throwing up WIFOM to the tune of "but I'm a good guy y u think i'm scum?"

for the record I think he is and I will ask you not to rely on this assumption; I've been burned by passing the newb card out many times before. (also. there is an example of this in this very game with LNGrrr's comment about "is this game multi-scum?" [which I find rather hysterical])

pedit: wait what. are you saying that you are either odd/even night kills only? and what's your kill flavor?

[Kagura]

In the Sacred Realm:

Kise-

Saria

Sage of Forest

[Sage Mafia Godmother]

Devoured by Spiders

Night One

Alsark-

The Great Ingo

Town's Conniving Ranch Hand

[Town Universal Mask Backup]

Devoured by Spiders

Night Two

RadiantCowbells-

Biggoron

Town's Very, Very, Very Big Goron

[Town's Macho Bodyguard]

Devoured by Spiders

Night Three

BBmolla

MollaDoni-

Death Valley Trail Guard

Town's Dedicated Gatekeeper

[Town's Mask-Activated Watcher]

Beaten in a Smooth Rhythm

Night Three

[Kagura]

So what do we know?

1) Devoured by spiders can happen every night
2) Odd night kill flavor is "Beaten in a smooth Rythym" -> EUREKA: this is bongo bongo if it is a ganon kill
3) JKLM is a sage then, who kills on even nights

So actually this might check out. Which means this is potentially 4 faction.

fuck that shit

[Kagura]

But that still means that kill color/flavor is not tied to faction; not sure why JKLM is purporting that because it is pretty demonstrably false

[Kagura]

In fact yeah that brown doesn't match the orange OR the red

[Kagura]

hey JKLM who was your N2 kill on? Me?

[ActionDan]

if odd/even kills by scum teams, 3-3-1-13 actually becomes plausible. That also means there are 4 scum left. Might be why I've been confused about what everyone has been doing today. because I noticed common sense took a dive.

[JKLM]

Okay stop with the bongo bongo bongo theories because that faction does NOT have 2 kills in one night. The factions trade off.

Wait

Kagura, are you the third party? Because you seem to understand this better than I do, and IM supposed to be the informed one. You hiding something?

[Kagura]

Dude the ship sailed on suspecting my slot a long, long time ago

Devoured by spiders is obv the third party dude, according to everything you've said.

[Iecerint]

Ganon + Monsters + Sages

Maybe.

I don't think the Deku Tree boss had a Ganon connection, at least.

[Kagura]

I don't think the Deku Tree boss had a Ganon connection, at least.

What I was originally thinking, but not now. Ganon's army IMO has the smooth rhythm kill, and Bongo Bongo fits that flavor to a T. Sages have not committed a successful kill yet, if what JKLM is saying is true (and it sounds like it is), and this would also mean that Ganon's army missed their kill N1.

Third party (the spider kill, which is obviously allowed every night) could be that fucking skulltulla house guy for all I know.

[Bulbazak]

Because there's enough WIFOM with Zelda that she could do without a fake claim.

How do you reconcile that with the fact that KBW didn't seem to know about the sage faction at all? I've played with KBW before and I think he's the type of player that could quite easily be out of sync with the gamestate. I also don't think he's capable of knowing he was sage scum and throwing up WIFOM to the tune of "but I'm a good guy y u think i'm scum?"

Why

wouldn't

KBW do that if scum?

Also maybe address the numbers thing?

We have no indication that kill flavor is individual specific and not team specific.

Where does KBW fit into the sage team?

As a scum member with a loved modifier, which is actually quite good for the scum team and fits with flavor.

What about Link makes him the ['perfect fake claim'] but somehow at the same time [totally implausible to actually have as a role in the game]? Because guess what, if you think the second thing, then the first thing becomes not so true anymore, doesn't it?

Link is implausible to have in the setup because of the way the scenario is framed. I'm sorry, but if I'm putting a Zelda theme together with the story of "you can't count on the hero", there is no way I'm going to put the hero in the game. Mhork is also making a point to defy expectations in this game, meaning that there's no way I'm going to trust a Link claim. Also, the reason it's a perfect claim is that despite all this, people will still be expecting him, which means the mod essentially gives people want they want, while working within the confines of his scenario. Remember, he's determined alignment according to this scenario, so while it's true that character alignment is not dependent on game alignment, they are dependent on some sort of criteria, which is tied into this particular scenario.

Do you want me to give you links to a whole bunch of other theme games where the main character of the game was actually in the game? Because it's pretty freely available to check, and leads me to the question of what you're basing your assertion on that Link has to be a fakeclaim to be in the game at all?

But we're not talking about any sort of theme game, we're talking about a type of theme game that is working off of a unique scenario not based on the source material. It's like comparing oranges to grapefruit. They may look similar, but there a number of differences which makes them unique.

My recommendation would be to stop listening to Bulba. It's generally the best option.

[Iecerint]

I thought all the Adult Link bosses (i.e., including Bongo Bongo) had a Ganon connection, but the Child Link bosses didn't?

I haven't played it in a long time.

[Iecerint]

Child Link has already been a confirmed Fake Claim, so it's obvious that Link can be considered to be a valid town claim.

It's possible that the other scumteam got Adult Link as a fakeclaim for balance, though.

[ActionDan]

hmmmm. considering interactions:

short-list for sage scum:

AA
Bulba
Empking.

other scum of some kind:

Levi

I don't get why JKLM is accusing this person of being scum:

Waynegg

who even is left over; 2-3 scum of all flavors here probably:

KBW/Hiraki/Empking/Bulba/AA... ???

[Kagura]

Link is implausible to have in the setup because of the way the scenario is framed. I'm sorry, but if I'm putting a Zelda theme together with the story of "you can't count on the hero", there is no way I'm going to put the hero in the game. Mhork is also making a point to defy expectations in this game, meaning that there's no way I'm going to trust a Link claim. Also, the reason it's a perfect claim is that despite all this, people will still be expecting him, which means the mod essentially gives people want they want, while working within the confines of his scenario. Remember, he's determined alignment according to this scenario, so while it's true that character alignment is not dependent on game alignment, they are dependent on some sort of criteria, which is tied into this particular scenario.

"No way I'm gonna put him in the game but I'll put him in as a fake claim only?" Yeah no. Any mod that's trying to hint that Link isn't around is also NOT going to put him in the game as a plausible fakeclaim. That beginning flavor claim thing having a hint that link isn't in the game is total fucking bunk, and as Icerint just said, the fact that child link was a fakeclaim means that he was put in there

to be believed.

You're still trying to argue both points of the same issue. "People will be expecting him, but I'm fucking too smart for that shit it's obvious I would never do that" isn't wowing me.

I thought all the Adult Link bosses (i.e., including Bongo Bongo) had a Ganon connection, but the Child Link bosses didn't?
I haven't played it in a long time.

Yeah but I think Gohma and the spider connection is kinda sloppy and really doesn't fit well as an independent. Considering what we know now, I think the purple kill is independent and I think Ganon's forces implies a team, so they're odd-night kill, not the every night kill.

It's possible that the other scumteam got Adult Link as a fakeclaim for balance, though.

Yes it is; but that's not what Bulba is arguing and I'm gonna stop here because I think we're on the same page.

[Kagura]

Waynegg

There's still the issue of how Wayne knew about masks.

If he ends up having a plausible explanation for the whole thing when all the cards are on the table then fine, otherwise, I probably don't want him around.

[Kagura]

I'm still townreading AA but I wish they were around more.

[Hiraki]

That means we have ANOTHER kind of player that's changing things.

This is our (not JKLM) bus driver. I assume that you were supposed to kill someone else N2, correct?

Who did you try to kill N2? That's probably who it is (i.e. they used it on themselves and got someone else to take their kill)

[Iecerint]

It's possible that the other scumteam got Adult Link as a fakeclaim for balance, though.

Yes it is; but that's not what Bulba is arguing and I'm gonna stop here because I think we're on the same page.

Yeah, I agree. Just specifying the only way that Adult Link could be scum (i.e., as a non-Sage fakeclaim).

[Iecerint]

Well, the most plausible way, at least.

[ActionDan]

i.e. they used it on themselves and got someone else to take their kill)

if this were this the case, why isn't that player not dead instead?

[Iso]

The fact that these three IMMEDIATELY bandwagoned me should be a huge red flag to anyone following along at home. It's like a glorified OMGUS from both scumteams.

WE went back to our previous votes after testing KBW. Your's is a terrible misrepresentation of the facts.

Not hardly. It doesn't change the fact that it's opportunistic or that you're voting on a bad wagon. It's like a scum conga line.

I had decided that Iso is town, what's going on with that wagon

"dumb"/scum

You dolts aren't gonna win.

I was cooperating with you idiots. You should have Atleast left me alive long enough for me to help more.

Wayne is a liar. Do not trust him. He is prob scum. Levi is prob the other scum as well.

Hiraki is the dayvig. Have at it other scum teams. He's only got one shot.
Hiraki I'd hurry up if I were you.

I don't want any of you to win but my preference would be to not let the other scum team win.
So make a shot Hiraki. Don't WIFOM out if this situation.

I'm surprised I've been kept alive as long as I have.

Seriously though, it was an honor to play with a lot of you.

FUCKING NAILED IT DAY 1.

I believe our definitions of white-knighting diverge.

Praytell, what is your definition of white knighting? Mine is scum attacking a town player's attacker in the hope of gaining towncred when that person flips town.

Staunchly defending another player, usually because you have a soul read on them.

Surely you don't disagree that kbw's premise of argumentation here was awful.

No, I agree that KBW's argument is faulty. However, for the same reasons I think Zelda is scum, I also think that Link is a fake claim.

So then why didn't you immediately vote me when I claimed Adult Link earlier/when kbw claimed Zelda?

Also, why are you "crap"ing JKLM's scum flip? .-.

However, for the same reasons I think Zelda is scum, I also think that Link is a fake claim.

Walk me through this because this makes pretty much no sense to me.

I think out of all the character claims, Link and Zelda are the ones that are least likely to be what they think we should be. For Zelda, she is the perfect sage role, and the loved modifier kinda fits into that. For Link, I think that he makes the perfect fake claim. This is also backed up by the opening flavor text, where we are implicitly told that we can't trust in a hero to save us this time. The implication being that Link isn't around to save our sorry butts. I'm sorry, there's no way Link is in this game.

So you think the mod game both scumteams Link falseclaims? That's borderline bastardry.

Oh wait, he said that after a lynch?

...I mean I am dayvig! Yes!

Um.

What?

Can we lynch this guy on Day 5?

Sorry to burst the bubble but their really is a third party. ALIGNMENT determines kill flavor. And that isn't our kill flavor. This will be proved tomorrow.
Which is an other alarming issue: night 2 was supposed to be our kill. That means we have ANOTHER kind of player that's changing things. The teams switch off every other night as to who gets a kill.

That third party complicates things as to what it's ability is.

I'd start looking to ISO if you want my opinion. In fact please just shoot him.

"Shoot the claimed Bulletproof, I'm totally trustworthy because I claimed scum, guys"

come at me bro

Okay stop with the bongo bongo bongo theories because that faction does NOT have 2 kills in one night. The factions trade off.

I'm confused. When did you kill, exactly?

Ganon + Monsters + Sages

Maybe.

I don't think the Deku Tree boss had a Ganon connection, at least.

Gohma? I don't think she did, either, to my recollection.

Child Link has already been a confirmed Fake Claim, so it's obvious that Link can be considered to be a valid town claim.

It's possible that the other scumteam got Adult Link as a fakeclaim for balance, though.

Again: Borderline bastardry.

That means we have ANOTHER kind of player that's changing things.

This is our (not JKLM) bus driver. I assume that you were supposed to kill someone else N2, correct?

Who did you try to kill N2? That's probably who it is (i.e. they used it on themselves and got someone else to take their kill)

...did you just claim scum? Especially given the conversation we had earlier about the Mod accidentally confirming that the town has no kill roles?

Yeah, we're lynching you Day 5. Shoot me first, if you can.

[Hiraki]

i.e. they used it on themselves and got someone else to take their kill)

if this were this the case, why isn't that player not dead instead?

Because the scumteam targeted the bus driver and the bus driver targeted himself and his/her target. Am I getting something wrong here?

JKLM's report probably comes from this day for trying to out the dayvig to make him/her shoot and he probably made the same kill (though the second part is a leap in logic considering that JKLM was already labeled a rolecop by yesterday)

...did you just claim scum?

At least I can be arrogant and retain a hint of intelligence doing it. What the hell are you on?