Newbie 1444 ~ Game Ovah ~ Mafia Win

[zipperflesh]

Can you clarify what you find odd about my position?

[Kytoxid]

@Montosh: A reads list or something would be nice once you've caught up. Your slot has been quite...lacking, in the whole game.
---

@kyto: Scum already know who town is

Thus they tend to jump to conclusions to quickly

Scum also are trying to stay away from public suspicion, and thus are less likely to do things to attract attention to themselves, so I think caution is, at best, null.

Yes fuck me I’m aware I have contributed approximately 0 helpful information to the town, will try to get a detailed read on zipper and eagle

Yes I haven't found things scummy YET

And yes you may fuck me

Sorry I haven’t been able to get on the net for a while, so I haven’t be able to get the “detailed” reads on eagle and zippy.

So yes another reason to fuck me.

So I did manage however to skim through one of baldeagle’s games (Actually I just read the first pages then skipped to the last ones :p), and honestly I think it’s really hard to read the meta of someone from a game you were never in. Really the only thing I noted was his cautious playstyle (he was town). So screw meta. And screw me.

I lol'd. But only in the way. You don't even have any gut reads? Do you have a plan for your own scum hunting then?

I felt that your slot was scummy on D1 for hopping on the Sakura wagon the way you did; your entrance hasn't made it look any better.

As a side note, I'm feeling lonely, you haven't mentioned me at all.
---

Hi. Can you do me a favour and summarise Thor's counter-points on Zipper? He really doesn't seem to be pushing anything very hard and apparently wants to get a wagon going but doesn't want to push a case.
This is irking me heavily so I figure if you're asking the question about 'counter-points', you've found them and might be able to help me out with this.
Ta.

First, to clarify, I meant counter-points in that quote as in points that show that Zipper's case on him is invalid, not a case on Zipper. On those lines, the main thing Thor has said is that he wasn't soft-pushing Sakura, but was trying to pull votes off Sakura (and onto burn) with posts such as 257.

Thor's main case for Zipper being scum is summarized basically here:

He avoided a stronger wagon that he had expressed support of in order to do a last minute pressure wagon on a player who was then lynched and flipped towm. I feel like that is prima facie for scum motivation and intent.

Of course, he-said-she-says applies here. You should ask Thor if you need clarifications. I had some confusion understanding his case up to that post as well.
---

When you zone in on someone it seems goal driven and if it is goal driven it must be malicious.

Things like this make me go ???. From what I can gather, you're saying:

- Zipper is null to you right now.
- Thor is scummy for tunneling you D1, and soft-pushing Sakura near the end of the day.

Is this correct?

As well, you state that Zipper has pointed out Thor's soft-pushing "very nicely". Do you disagree with Thor's counter-points?

@burn: I'm still waiting for a response for this.
---
Anyways, I like talah's Eagle case more than Thor's zipper case right now. But since then, zipper's suspicion towards Eagle's actions without actually voting him or doing anything about it is almost just as interesting.

@Eagle: Has zipper's recent posts changed your views on him at all?

[Kytoxid]

BTW, talah's "---" wall dividers are quite nice, so I've shamelessly copied them.

[Thor665]

Can you clarify what you find odd about my position?

You find Eagle scummy for a sudden flip on me.
You find me scummy.
You think both of us were coordinated enough to combine push on Burn, but sloppy enough to choose to distance in the manner we have,.

Clarify?

Hint: I think you're scum.

[Malakittens]

2.06

With 8 alive it's 5 votes to lynch

Voting for:

*Kytoxid -
*Montosh -
*Cxinlee -
*Zipperflesh - Thor665 [1]
*burn_209 -
*1baldeagle1 - Talah [1]
*talah -
*Thor665 - Zipperflesh, burn_209, 1baldeagle1 [3] [L-2]

Not voting: Kytoxid, Cxinlee, Montosh [3]

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2013-11-21 16:12:00)

[talah]

This is wrong with six days to deadline:

Not voting: Kytoxid, Cxinlee, Montosh [3]

Folks - get a vote on, back a wagon, do something.

Also it's Friday night and so I'll be back with proper responses sometime tomorrow.

But to vaguely answer your sideways question Kytoxid, I switched into pairs that do or don't work mode a while back which is a bit difficult with only one flip (and potential pairing of you and Thor is probably exacerbated by my hurt pride at the Sakura flip and having called DoL town or Dol/Thor scum early on).

And vaguely regarding your comment Thor (well one of them), instead of BoP - let's call it a BoBAtEWYSRaYSRaBAtCOtYBiY.
Or if you don't get the obvious Acronym;
Burden of Being Able to Explain Why Your Scumreads are Your Scumreads and Being Able to Convince Others that You Believe it Yourself.

Anyway I'm half considering a no-kill gambit as an option to explain night 1 (and it's pretty good scum strategy in certain circumstances) since the correct play at mylo is to no-lynch to reduce the pool. So a no-kill N1 with a town lynch D1 just leaves more town players for scum (or town) to mislynch. Anyway speculation.

[talah]

@Mod - Apologies but I need to request replacement

[Thor665]

I'd also like to request a prod on Montosh and Burn, both of whom have gone over 48 hours with no posts.

I agree with former Talah that more votes should either be in play or stated at this stage.
They could probably be pretty useful on Zipper.

[zipperflesh]

I find eagle scummy for his sudden change in position. It has nothing to do with you, Thor.

[Malakittens]

@Mod - Apologies but I need to request replacement

Noted.

@Thor:

I do 72 hour prods, but I have prodded them.

[burn_209]

Sorry guys I waited in line for 14 hours for the play station 4 yesterday. I'll catch up quickly

[Thor665]

I find eagle scummy for his sudden change in position. It has nothing to do with you, Thor.

And that the person he flopped on was a person you think is scum didn't affect your read at all?

[Thor665]

I mean, wouldn't that at least look like either a bus or a town seeing the light to you or something?

[Malakittens]

Bulbazak replaces talah

[Bulbazak]

Unvote

Catching up. I hope to be done by Sunday.

[1baldeagle1]

Heck, let's lynch Zipper and I'll Keep Bald in mind for tomorrow, that sounds like good planning to me.

Nah, let's lynch you.

Not liking the sudden change in eagles position on burn, can you explain why that post gives burn town points?

I don't think eagle has answered this question.

I did, actually.

I find eagle scummy for his sudden change in position. It has nothing to do with you, Thor.

Lol. This is like saying "Well, one of his reads changed, so he must be scum". Please explain this logic now.

@Kytoxid, Idk about zipper. I like some of his posts and I don't like the rest. So, needless to say, he's in the null pile.

Oh, Thor, you were on and off. You seemed like you were against it and you weren't. Probably forgot to meta-dodge Sakura so she wouldn't suspect you.\

Let me know if I missed any of your questions.

[zipperflesh]

Can you remind me what your answer was, plz

[Kytoxid]

I'm waiting for replies for my questions to cxinlee and burn. I'd like to clear my minds a bit of them before deciding between Eagle and Zipper. Leaning Eagle though, so I'll vote him for now.

VOTE: 1baldeagle1

@Eagle: Please answer talah's question:

So can you tell me what about burn's Post 396 you think that newbscum wouldn't or couldn't say, and is your read altered by the fact that burn isn't necessarily newbscum at all?

As well, a list of your reads please.

[Thor665]

Oh, Thor, you were on and off. You seemed like you were against it and you weren't. Probably forgot to meta-dodge Sakura so she wouldn't suspect you.\

Does this even mean anything?

[1baldeagle1]

Can you remind me what your answer was, plz

448--It's about near the middle, close to the top.

I'm waiting for replies for my questions to cxinlee and burn. I'd like to clear my minds a bit of them before deciding between Eagle and Zipper. Leaning Eagle though, so I'll vote him for now.

VOTE: 1baldeagle1

@Eagle: Please answer talah's question:

So can you tell me what about burn's Post 396 you think that newbscum wouldn't or couldn't say, and is your read altered by the fact that burn isn't necessarily newbscum at all?

It's still a good post. It's pretty deep analysis on the game, and I really liked it. Also, can you explain your vote on me please? Not sure why you are voting for me, so I want good reasons to justify the vote.
As well, a list of your reads please.

Oh, Thor, you were on and off. You seemed like you were against it and you weren't. Probably forgot to meta-dodge Sakura so she wouldn't suspect you.\

Does this even mean anything?

It does, obviously.

[1baldeagle1]

IGNORE THE ABOVE POST, I DERPED THE QUOTE TAGS, AGAIN.

Can you remind me what your answer was, plz

448--It's about near the middle, close to the top.

I'm waiting for replies for my questions to cxinlee and burn. I'd like to clear my minds a bit of them before deciding between Eagle and Zipper. Leaning Eagle though, so I'll vote him for now.

VOTE: 1baldeagle1

@Eagle: Please answer talah's question:

So can you tell me what about burn's Post 396 you think that newbscum wouldn't or couldn't say, and is your read altered by the fact that burn isn't necessarily newbscum at all?

As well, a list of your reads please.

It's still a good post. It's pretty deep analysis on the game, and I really liked it. Also, can you explain your vote on me please? Not sure why you are voting for me, so I want good reasons to justify the vote.

Also:
talah/Bulba
Cxinlee
Kytoxid
burn
zipper
Montosh
Thor

Oh, Thor, you were on and off. You seemed like you were against it and you weren't. Probably forgot to meta-dodge Sakura so she wouldn't suspect you.\

Does this even mean anything?

It does, obviously.

[Thor665]

What does it obviously mean?

[burn_209]

As well, you state that Zipper has pointed out Thor's soft-pushing "very nicely". Do you disagree with Thor's counter-points?


@burn: I'm still waiting for a response for this.

I kind of touched on it in 415 put Ill take it and put it here

As for the second part you are correct except for the part that says Thor is scummy for tunneling YOU D1. He could have been tunneling me, you, talah, Bald, or any other player in the game and I would have got the same scum read and same feeling about the situation. I dont see how you were dead set on lynching someone through out the entire day and locked your vote on that person all day....and then soft push someone to get lynched at the end of the day if you were town. You could say that you wanted to avoid a no lynch and would have been happy with either lynch but if that was the case why didnt he change his vote when it was apparent that I wasnt going to be lynched yesterday? To use his own analogy if you want Ice Cream but would settle for cookies, why wouldnt you eat the cookies if the Ice Cream shop is closed? It just looks to me like he wanted to have no part in lynching Sakura because he knew she would flip town. It would have looked ugly for him if he had his vote on me, or any other player, the entire day and then switched it to the bandwagon at the last minute and that person flipped town. So instead of changing his vote he took the safe way out and kept his vote where it was. It seems overly scummy to me that if he was content with a Sakura lynch that he wouldnt have voted for the Sakura lynch once it was apparent his vote wasnt helping towards a lynch. It seems to me like him leaving his vote on me was an illusion so that it wouldnt look like he hopped on a bandwagon midway which resulted in a lynch of a townie.

Also a lot of Thor's posts relating to the Sakura lynch are irrelevant. Like this one

Oh, and Zipper, if I was soft pushing her...why didn't you bring up how I got pissy at you for starting the wagon on her?
I pretty much flat out said I thought it was dumb and you should vote Burn.

Or was that a clever double play on my part?
Tell me more.

You getting pissy because zipper doesnt mean jack shit. All it shows me is that the game was going in a different direction then you had hoped for and still soft pushed a townie lynch because a dead townie is still a dead townie in scum eyes right? So you looked mad because you didnt want to "officially" get your hands dirty

I mean a lot of his defenses are "why did I get mad when we were switched the vote." and that he stated that he was wondering why we were dicking around starting a wagon on someone else. To me those arent valid defenses or counter points.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Kyto, Cxinlee, and Zipper what is your list of town to scummy since it looks like we are doing that at the moment.

[Thor665]

I mean a lot of his defenses are "why did I get mad when we were switched the vote." and that he stated that he was wondering why we were dicking around starting a wagon on someone else. To me those arent valid defenses or counter points.

They are if the case on me is that I wanted the Sakura wagon to happen and was trying to make it happen.
Is that *not* the case on me? Because if it isn't then I don't know what is.

[cxinlee]

Geesh everyone’s activity’s all over the place (including me)
Changed my mind about thor, he’s null

Firstly Talah already proved my point wrong, baldeagle is null. Secondly I don’t exactly see the connection between laying low (Actually scum usually avoid this because they know it does the opposite) and being cautious. Laying low is when you contribute very little, make random comments here and there, and make posts that don’t spark discussion. Cautious is when you’re careful not to jump too quickly into conclusions, making sure you analyse different sides to it (obviously being too careful is scummy, but this is not the case).
You can be cautious, and at the same time not avoid trouble, and this is what I thought baldeagle was doing.
Yes I have gut reads, but why should I post them? I know better than to trust my feelings alone and I only post them when I can find evidence (logic) that can support it (then they’re no longer gut reads). It’s essentially in zipper’s sig. I’m not going to post everything that pops up on my head.

Also hi kyto; I hope you don’t feel lonely anymore
(You’re town, mainly because I can see your motivations behind your questions-You’re trying to find things out. Curiosity is why I’m town-reading you)

Oh and usually I hunt scum by nitpicking things and questioning them, following up by cross-examining the defense. Then I make my verdict.

@Thor: why did you call burn scum without looking at other perspectives? Like talah said, it is possible he thought you were scum for trying to push for his lynch early in the game. Not the pressure. The lynch.
And if you really want my list
Bulba
Burn
Kyto
Baldeagle, Montosh, Zipper, Thor (tie)
Bottom 4 are null
Getting close to deadline, going to have to resort to this to choose how I use my vote
VOTE: zipper
I’m fine with any lynch on the bottom 4, though
And I’ll try to iso zipper (and the other suspects) but who knows, anything is possible with procrastination (And I haven’t been getting a lot of net time).