Open 535: Enemy of My Enemy

[thenewearth]

Rainbowdash Replaces Agent Minnesota

This is pretty offensive and can be seen as a personal attack. I'll let you off with a warning for now but any more would be grounds for force replacement

[RationalMadman]

ok lol

[RationalMadman]

VOTE: Jordan_Downey

[T S O]

can we get a rep for RM pls yay!

[T S O]

oh yay it's RBD

I don't like bronies, but fuck it, it's RBD.

[bubbajack8]

To those voting RM you are wasting time and energy. He's going to not play the game. It's best to treat him like a lurker honestly much anything else is a disruptive player policy lynch. We can actually use day one to scum hunt or lynch RM call it a day, I can see at least one town play. Not saying RM is town or scum. Who knows. I'd probably guess town however disruptive and troll his posts are if it comes down to it we can always waste time on him later.

To me the votes on him read somewhere between impatient town willing to policy lynch early to opportunistic scum play. Neither is town beneficial but how blatant it is I'd say it's less likely to be a scum tell on bubba and banakai

In response to scum lurking or not. My one completed game here involved scum lurking through the game and have seen it in many read throughs. So I'm positive it happens. I personally plan on fleshing out some reads from my side of things but so far we are of a like mind.

The thing I can;t get out of my mind is what if he actually is scum. There's no town motivation for keeping him, and there's more scum motivation to keep him around.

[T S O]

the fucker's going straight to LyLo in this set-up

[TvK]

Prod dodging. Just trying to ignore RM. Hoping Rainbowdash will have some good input.

[erneiz_hyde]

Sorry, I wrote up a reply for Daniel's question to me but somehow my browser crashed and it crashed my post and mood along with it.

Will get back to it a bit later.

[Rainbowdash]

So will read this tonight, maybe tomorrow if I get tied up.

unvote

[Rainbowdash]

Really fast read I like RM, BC and T9 for scum.

RM would be an excellent lynch because he has a good shot at being scum and is going to apparently try to be as useless as possible. T9 would probably be second pick. BC is a very solid third as it all starts falling into more of the bj/tvk/tso grey area of players that make me twitch.

Will check them again in more detail later on.

[Rainbowdash]

So anyway, quick and dirty why RM needs to be utility lynch (PL of a somewhat scummy player):

1) He actually starts the game trying to argue what he think the optimal strategy for scum is that would cause the most damage to the town. Ironically he misses the entire point of this setup in doing so, but I do read this as him actually thinking he is suggesting the best way for scum to use their roles.
2) His Bankai vote is bad, for more reasons than Bankai is probably town. He says its a "fake dumbtell". Its very difficult to ever call something a fake dumtell without there being a track record of the player first actually being good with setups. Most of the time there are town slips and things like that, they come from town. Second most likely place they come from is scum blundering into one. I have played a ton of open games and seen a lot of those slips, and there are very few that actually were intentionally thrown out there by scum fishing for town to catch it.
3) The "OMGUS" point is just bad. It was a correct vote on somepony who threw out a vote for "faking a tell". Instead pulling that card is a way to just try and discredit any sort of attack that could be launched.
4) Continues to vote Bankai until Bankai backs off RM. The fact that any of you voted Bankai after 100 and 145 is stunning. Those two posts alone have him as one of my strongest town reads.
5) Since that point RM has locked down and just decided to troll and claim scum. One of you mentioned "why would scum do that" (hello WIFOM example) but that misses the greater point. RM is going out of his way to not help here.

So worst case he is town who has been doing multiple things (trying to optimize scum actions, claiming scum, not giving reads, trying to disrupt the flow) and best/probable case is that he is scum.

Simple enough.

Vote RM

[Daniel Bryan]

I have no issues with this this.

VOTE: RM

If you think he's town, go policy lynch him.

[Jordan_Downey]

So worst case he is town who has been doing multiple things (trying to optimize scum actions, claiming scum, not giving reads, trying to disrupt the flow) and best/probable case is that he is scum.

I'm generally against policy lynching, but I suppose I can get in on this. More important though, we can't allow him to cut the discussion today short. RBD, you've posted a nice tidy wall about RM, but I'm not seeing much else. How do you feel about BwB? Lurkers? The game in general? RM is a lynch that you won't be criticized for in hindsight (bad town or bad scum), and I want something, some stance you take to be able to read you down the road. I think there is still valuable information to be gained today, and refuse to let RM stop that.

[Rainbowdash]

There is such a point where an oversaturation of information is a bad thing.

RM, T9 and BC are scum
Bankai, EH and SR are town

No point in trying to shove any of those reads down your throat here and if anything its just going to start causing a distraction. There is plenty of information from that first little push on RM and the general reaction of the game to how he played.

[Jordan_Downey]

Yup. Oversaturation of information is a thing, but I'm not too worried about it on page 8. Let's try this another way. You've given some solid reasons for RM, what is your reasoning on T9 and BC scum? What do you think of BwB and his lack of response to my questions? Why do you seem so against putting your reasoning out there?

BwB, I'm still waiting on your answer about the Scum-action spec. I promise not to forget you if you continue to lurk, so feel free to answer me.

Just in case this is genuine inactivity,

Mod, could you please prod BWBurke? Thank you in advance.

[Team 9]

@DB: things arent that obvious when English is your second language

@SR: maybe i'm giving the most pro-town answer because... i'm town? It is true that i am (was) trying a bit harder than usual, though, because i hate slow games. Leading a 3-headed hydra alone during limited access blows.

I remember someone asked to elaborate my reads.

Ernie because i liked his intro.
TvK because his thoughts matched mine a lot.
TSO is a vibe.
RM, as i explained earlier, is my townread because of his whining plus the EM bias. But i don't mind PLing him, or WotC if possible.

BC im holding on reading him because he's usually a lynchbait.

Still think BwB is scum. That's not likely to change.

Bubba i didn't like his early reactions but im gonna believe in my ability to read him and gonna give him time.

Jordan, well, he's a townread by my heart and nullread by my head.

SR is prob town but i dont want to call him town just because :<

Banakai i had an early townread on him for exact opposite of reason RM calling him scum for, but that went stale.

Also in case ppl didn't notice, this is not a secret 3p hydra. This is a hydra of GIF, pieguyn, and Hanasawa.

Speaking of heads, i'm in LA until 26th, pieguyn was busy with his rl and now he's in denial stage aftee his loss in mini theme game. Hanasawa is in V/LA until 29th.

-Cirno

[Team 9]

Oh also RBD. Right now, he's my "screw you" read.

[Team 9]

@mod: can you plz put the deadline in with the vote counts? try using the countdown tags o/

Also, since we're in random voting stage, VOTE: beastcharizard for being the first to vote a confirmed player.

why do you feel the need to justify voting in RVS? it's one thing to justify a RV (this is good), but another thing entirely to justify the fact that you're doing a RV. it's the start of the game, RVS is only natural. scared much?

BwB's other posts near the start seem like the same thing. I don't like this > <

I'm seeing some flow-going in RVS. too many people had a vote followed by a sentence starting with "for". it doesn't seem natural o-o

TvK and Jordan_Downey are early townreads

I also find it interesting Team9 attacked me but not Shockwave Rider.

trying to redirect onto Shockwave ok. also, at least Shockwave explained why he thought BwB was town

I'm currently more suspicious of BwB than Banakai. Seems to me like he created a bait to divert attention away from him, which the unsuspecting Madman took and Charizard gently pushing it as his secret buddy.
But I would still like to see Banakai's explanation on his accusation.

Btw Madman, try not to be too haphazard with your posts. carefully edit and look at the preview before hitting the Submit button. You're too much of a liability with that much omgus baiting.

this post is really weird for me. there's reasons to scumread BwB, but this is not one of them and seems like reaching. the unvoting because "we're out of RVS" pinged too but I don't even think that one is alignment indicative, so I'd rather just ignore it.

Then why are you holding a RVS vote?

do you really think this is alignment indicative? this seems like a cheap way to look busy by throwing suspicion around.

I don't joke around in this game. I take it seriously. I don't see a problem with his posts, I agree with Shockwave Rider.

I don't like this reaction. mostly how he explicitly says how he doesn't see a problem with his posts, without explaining why there's no problem with his posts. it seems way too defensive > <

I think this is suspicious. Holding on to an RVS vote could lead to a stealthy wagon making. It could be he planned to do that but Downey undermined that plan. But then again, about half the players here are still holding their RVS votes, so maybe this isn't more than a gut feeling...

another case of accusing people for BS reasons to try to look busy? seriously, what is the scum motivation in doing this? rather than considering it, you just try to paint it as scummy.

No dude I am actually scum with charizard. I don't even get why you think i'm wifoming.

enough. if you're town this is so anti-town I don't even give a shit anymore

T9 would probably be second pick. BC is a very solid third as it all starts falling into more of the bj/tvk/tso grey area of players that make me twitch.

explain TvK plz? he's leaning town for me

I can't get a handle on this game for shit thanks to RM. I'd love to write him off as town but I can't overlook the idea he's scum who's just fucking around. = = I agree with Cirno on policy lynching him if need be.

-Mystia

[aphix]

188 and 190 are both Jingle, just to keep things straight.

I like the details of Rainbowdash's posts. But I might be more concerned with the focus on RM. As I mentioned early, it'd be a waste of day one to just lynch him with no other play if anything, RM is the distraction from us actually playing D1. If we can't find a real lynch by deadline, yes I can agree with a PL on RM as it's going to be a pain going through a whole game with him. Right now I'm of the assumption he'll continue ruining the game, we ignore him, and he'll slip up and get force replaced/modkilled/give up and play, whatever.

Regards to Team 9: I haven't played with or even as a hydra before, so I'm not sure where to read. I find myself agreeing with much of what they have to say. Above in 193, I enjoy posting reasonings for my random vote. If I just [ vote ] [ /vote ] and everyone else does as well, what have we benefited?

I'm probably jumping the gun, but I also am disliking bubbajack8 play so far. I'm always concerned when someone wants to give a townread based on town normally doing that, it'd be like me as a new playing reading scum/town tells on the wiki and relying on it alone to play from.

@180: There is also scum motivation in lynching him now, as if he's town and the slot gets replaced out, that slot only becomes helpful to town, as opposed to an easy policy lynch that has little to no repercussions and prevents any actual play from happening D1. It could be like starting the game with less town and possibly less scum?

And I also get distracted by it all, because I think the RM lynch although beneficial now, is not beneficial in the long run. I have my weekend coming up Sunday/Monday. Well get in more then.

-aphix

[thenewearth]

Mod, could you please prod BWBurke? Thank you in advance.

Proddin'

@mod: can you plz put the deadline in with the vote counts? try using the countdown tags o/

It has been located on the first post which... apparently... went missing... for some reason...

[Team 9]

Above in 193, I enjoy posting reasonings for my random vote. If I just [ vote ] [ /vote ] and everyone else does as well, what have we benefited?

well yeah, it's good to justify RVs. but I was referring to the format of everyone's posts. just look at it and tell me there's nothing fkin wrong there

Also, since we're in random voting stage, VOTE: beastcharizard for being the first to vote a confirmed player.

VOTE: rationalmadman

For not liking an open game that he didn't have to sign up for.

VOTE: beastcharizard

For not being a dragon.

VOTE: erneiz_hyde For not knowing Charizard can now be a dragon with a mega evolution.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Agent Minnesota for not knowing that beastcharizard is original Charizard.

VOTE: Jordan_Downey

for being Robert Downey Jr's annoying cousin.

there 6 posts that all follow the same format: a vote, followed by a sentence starting with "for". even if it's common, that's just unnatural and I'm sure there's at least 1 or 2 scum who are scared at the start of the game in there. two of them were by BwB and one from erneiz, so that might be it right there 0.0

-Mystia

[thenewearth]

Vote Count

Team 9 (1) - Shockwave Rider
bubbajack (0) -
T S O (0) -
TvK (0) -
RationalMadman (4) - Banakai, bubbajack, Rainbowdash, Daniel Bryan
Daniel Bryan (0) -
beastcharizard (0) -
Rainbow Dash (0) -
erneiz_hyde (0) -
Banakai (2) - BwBurke, beastcharizard
Jordan_Downey (1) - RationalMadman
BwBurke (4) - TvK, Team 9, Jordan_Downey, erneiz_hyde
Shockwave Rider (0) -

Not Voting - T S O

7 People's voices are needed to lynch.

Deadline In: (expired on 2013-11-28 19:38:00)

Deadline added to VC

[T S O]

Vote: RM

I have some pretty good ideas I think, but they are for d2.

And I'm voting RM because I think he's scum, not a policy.

[Jordan_Downey]

188 and 190 are both Jingle, just to keep things straight.

I like the details of Rainbowdash's posts. But I might be more concerned with the focus on RM. As I mentioned early, it'd be a waste of day one to just lynch him with no other play if anything, RM is the distraction from us actually playing D1. If we can't find a real lynch by deadline, yes I can agree with a PL on RM as it's going to be a pain going through a whole game with him. Right now I'm of the assumption he'll continue ruining the game, we ignore him, and he'll slip up and get force replaced/modkilled/give up and play, whatever.

Regards to Team 9: I haven't played with or even as a hydra before, so I'm not sure where to read. I find myself agreeing with much of what they have to say. Above in 193, I enjoy posting reasonings for my random vote. If I just [ vote ] [ /vote ] and everyone else does as well, what have we benefited?

I'm probably jumping the gun, but I also am disliking bubbajack8 play so far. I'm always concerned when someone wants to give a townread based on town normally doing that, it'd be like me as a new playing reading scum/town tells on the wiki and relying on it alone to play from.

@180: There is also scum motivation in lynching him now, as if he's town and the slot gets replaced out, that slot only becomes helpful to town, as opposed to an easy policy lynch that has little to no repercussions and prevents any actual play from happening D1. It could be like starting the game with less town and possibly less scum?

And I also get distracted by it all, because I think the RM lynch although beneficial now, is not beneficial in the long run. I have my weekend coming up Sunday/Monday. Well get in more then.

-aphix

Really sorry about the quote. Take as you well but I'd feel awkward for my posts not to show up in the proper ISO.

@team 9: you do realize you left out that it was started by one of your heads right? My one completed game I looked back on no one used that format but I did notice everyone followed suit behind the format of the first RVS humans are damn near part here animal. You blazed a trail and others followed. Not game related.