Newbie 1449: Return of the Van [Game Over!]
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fferyllt Titan of Trajectory
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I just remembered, GiF had to replace out of a bunch of games at about this time. I'm going to notch my read back to null for now. I'm not sure what I'm seeing is that alignment indicative.-
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hayatoBL Mafia Scum
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@fferyllt
Hi. =) Nice to have you here.
I can’t really share the suspicions you have for Grim or GiF, because your arguments were mostly from meta. Maybe when there’s less player around, I could spend more time meta’ing players.
@Tris – Your defence against my attack
Attack#1 Afraid of making enemies
Defence#1-1 There’s no wrong in voting later.
There is. Town wants discussion going on before deadline. Scum wants deadline going on before discussion.
Defence#1-2 Reads are subject to change.
So are votes.
Attack#2 Inconsistent
Defence#2-1 You town-read TNE just after that.
I know but let’s just put it here and let people decide:
In post 210, Trisania wrote:...I think TNE's "I-don't-care" attitude implies he's either:
1. Scum that still feels safe because even if you think he's scum, you haven't identified yet who his partner is, so lack of links thereof would somehow prove his innocence,
2. He's town, so he wouldn't bother to explain his innocence, or3. He's in a bad mood because of stuff happening iRL.In post 267, Trisania wrote:^a.) I didn't feel like voting because those were just initial reads and still subject to change. It was the first day, I think, so there was no need to rush the lynching.
b.) I don't think I was fence-sitting. TCGW for me was already town, and TNE didn't feel like scum to me. Zipperflesh was my scum vote. True, it was a counter-vote for his vote on me, but I stood by my decision regardless of the two more popular bandwagons. Why would I bother hammering someone I don't think is scum?His rudeness and I-don't-care attitude on his impending lynch convinced me of his innocence.
c.) I object. True, I have fluff posts, but they're not that many. I hate posting walls; I'm too lazy. And walls of posts don't necessarily mean you're town, anyway. Scum can also post walls to appear innocent and interested in scum-hunting.-
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fferyllt Titan of Trajectory
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Yeah, I've played a ton of games with GiF, and we play as a hydra pretty often. Hydra is a user account that is shared by 2 or more players. They sign up as a single player in games (non-newbie games) and share the role PM, vote, night action, etc. He still fools me as scum sometimes. It would be easier to read his play in this game if I had interacted with him.In post 301, hayatoBL wrote:@fferylltHi. =) Nice to have you here. I can’t really share the suspicions you have for Grim or GiF, because your arguments were mostly from meta. Maybe when there’s less player around, I could spend more time meta’ing players.-
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Nobody Special Survivor
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In post 294, fferyllt wrote:
Are you thinking of the River City newbie game? He was town in that one. Replaced cAPSLOCK.In post 275, Nobody Special wrote:Also, I don't offhand recall playing with you-scum, but I am positive I've modded you-scum. And this is it, I'm pretty sure.
I need to go look (but that won't be until late tonight).
I just looked, and yes, that's the game I was thinking of. Since it wasn't "my" game, the memory isn't as clear. Anyway, we've established that I've not played with nor modded scumgrim, so I'll just have to ignore that gut feeling. But he's still scummy to me.
Also, apologies, but my laptop died (fan stopped working) and I've been spending tons of time migrating my stuff from the old drive to the new laptop (and dealing with the abomination that is Windows 8). I should be able to be more present now. But I still need to thoroughly re-read Day One. I've set some time aside for that today.-
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Grimgroove Mafia Scum
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In post 275, Nobody Special wrote:Also, I don't offhand recall playing with you-scum, butI am positiveI've modded you-scum. And this is it,I'm pretty sure.
I need to go look (but that won't be until late tonight).
You know Nobody Special, I'd love to attribute this to an honest mistake from your part, but the stuff in bold really bugs me.
UNVOTE:
I'm curious about your catch-up though.
Hi fferyllt! Interact with me."What truffles are to pigs so are these charlatans and pettifoggers to my mental acuity." - Frasier-
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Grimgroove Mafia Scum
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Grimgroove Mafia Scum
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Grimgroove Mafia Scum
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I can see the replacing out itself being a nulltell given those circumstances, but didn't you say there was something off about his play prior to that? Why does a null action make the scummy stuff go away? Could you expand on "the scummy stuff"? All I see is that GiF pushed a case on someone who flipped town. Considering I did the same thing I'm disinclined to take that as a scumtell.In post 300, fferyllt wrote:I just remembered, GiF had to replace out of a bunch of games at about this time. I'm going to notch my read back to null for now. I'm not sure what I'm seeing is that alignment indicative."What truffles are to pigs so are these charlatans and pettifoggers to my mental acuity." - Frasier-
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fferyllt Titan of Trajectory
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Did you miss my 298?In post 304, Grimgroove wrote:In post 275, Nobody Special wrote:Also, I don't offhand recall playing with you-scum, butI am positiveI've modded you-scum. And this is it,I'm pretty sure.
I need to go look (but that won't be until late tonight).
You know Nobody Special, I'd love to attribute this to an honest mistake from your part, but the stuff in bold really bugs me.
UNVOTE:
I'm curious about your catch-up though.
Hi fferyllt! Interact with me.
My approach was pretty sleepy. I dozed off before I got completely through day 1 and picked back up this morning. But, that's not the gap you're talking about. The early posts that screamed for IC-type comment caught my eye. I went forward a few posts to see if some got comment, but figured I'd forget about them if I read on before replying. Then I started running into signs of teaching mode in the thread, and didn't stop at any more teaching moments.In post 305, Grimgroove wrote:fferyllt, I couldn't help but notice the jump in posts you commented on between 296 and 298.
Could you explain your approach when catching up with this game?
I'm going to need to do a 2nd read-through because the section where I was fighting sleep is a little fuzzy.
Mostly I watched the build of the TNE wagon.
Why did you vote him?-
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fferyllt Titan of Trajectory
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I knew his flip before I started reading.In post 306, Grimgroove wrote:Did you read Day 1 before knowing about The New Earth's flip or after it?
There were signs, but they could be signs of preoccupation or getting overwhelmed with too much going on across the board, which ties into his replacing out of several games at once.In post 307, Grimgroove wrote:
I can see the replacing out itself being a nulltell given those circumstances, but didn't you say there was something off about his play prior to that? Why does a null action make the scummy stuff go away? Could you expand on "the scummy stuff"? All I see is that GiF pushed a case on someone who flipped town. Considering I did the same thing I'm disinclined to take that as a scumtell.In post 300, fferyllt wrote:I just remembered, GiF had to replace out of a bunch of games at about this time. I'm going to notch my read back to null for now. I'm not sure what I'm seeing is that alignment indicative.
GiF wasn't scumhunting much. His content was mostly IC-related. His vote on tne didn't have the trajectory I'm used to seeing in GiF's votes. If it had been a deadline-driven lynch his play would make a lot more sense to me.-
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Grimgroove Mafia Scum
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I didn't realize this question was directed to me, since apart from the quote nothing really hinted at anything I was talking about.In post 298, fferyllt wrote:
I could be biased because I was reading day 1 with the knowledge of TNE's alignment, but I really didn't understand the impetus of his wagon.In post 287, Grimgroove wrote:Nobody Special is a scumread. Maybe him being motivated can change that, but I'm very happy with my vote right now.
And, I am surprised GiF voted him. Really surprised. There's other stuff I don't like about GiF's play as well.
NS can't answer for any of that, but this isn't a situation where I'm willing to let a replacement start at null.
If NS is scum, who is his partner?
I don't know, I haven't seen any clear links between GiF/NS and any other player. But I also have a scumread on thiscantgowrong for instance. I liked him during day 1, but his Day 2 start felt really scummy to me. Same for Hayato actually.
Small question to Hayato: just so I know you're not buddying me by removing that vote over the meta-study: can you point out the crumbs I left in the game I pointed you to? Like, explain the mechanic behind them? Given that crumb made you change your mind about me, I'm supposing you found it."What truffles are to pigs so are these charlatans and pettifoggers to my mental acuity." - Frasier-
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Grimgroove Mafia Scum
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fferyllt, if you have read Day 1, my reasons for voting The New Earth should be clear to you, no? I think 158 represents the central element for me, plus The New Earth's negative disposition towards answering questions and simply giving a shit whenever he was here."What truffles are to pigs so are these charlatans and pettifoggers to my mental acuity." - Frasier-
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fferyllt Titan of Trajectory
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Lack of sleep during my first read I guess. I didn't remember that post, and I couldn't find it with ctl-f since it didn't quote TNE or mention him by name.In post 311, Grimgroove wrote:fferyllt, if you have read Day 1, my reasons for voting The New Earth should be clear to you, no? I think 158 represents the central element for me, plus The New Earth's negative disposition towards answering questions and simply giving a shit whenever he was here.
I have some concerns about your TNE vote, but I'll hold off digging into that until I've done a full contextual reread and know for sure that the concerns have a basis.-
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fferyllt Titan of Trajectory
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It was a springboard from your post. And since you have concerns about GiF/NS, it seemed like a good start to compare notes with you.In post 310, Grimgroove wrote:
I didn't realize this question was directed to me, since apart from the quote nothing really hinted at anything I was talking about.In post 298, fferyllt wrote:
I could be biased because I was reading day 1 with the knowledge of TNE's alignment, but I really didn't understand the impetus of his wagon.In post 287, Grimgroove wrote:Nobody Special is a scumread. Maybe him being motivated can change that, but I'm very happy with my vote right now.
And, I am surprised GiF voted him. Really surprised. There's other stuff I don't like about GiF's play as well.
NS can't answer for any of that, but this isn't a situation where I'm willing to let a replacement start at null.
If NS is scum, who is his partner?
I don't know, I haven't seen any clear links between GiF/NS and any other player. But I also have a scumread on thiscantgowrong for instance. I liked him during day 1, but his Day 2 start felt really scummy to me. Same for Hayato actually.
Small question to Hayato: just so I know you're not buddying me by removing that vote over the meta-study: can you point out the crumbs I left in the game I pointed you to? Like, explain the mechanic behind them? Given that crumb made you change your mind about me, I'm supposing you found it.-
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Grimgroove Mafia Scum
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hayatoBL Mafia Scum
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hayatoBL Mafia Scum
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Grimgroove Mafia Scum
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Grimgroove Mafia Scum
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I should have another look at Trisiana. But need to leave computer now.
"What truffles are to pigs so are these charlatans and pettifoggers to my mental acuity." - Frasier-
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hayatoBL Mafia Scum
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hayatoBL Mafia Scum
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Grimgroove Mafia Scum
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hayatoBL Mafia Scum
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fferyllt Titan of Trajectory
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I've reread the game, and written up a sort of narrative of my reactions to posts as I went along. I was collecting my reactions to Day 1 on a player-by-player basis, so that's how I'm presenting it here. Day 2 I'm going to treat as though I've been here from daybreak, and will make comments on a post by post basis rather than a narrative approach.
Every time I replace into a game lately, I try a different catch-up/report-findings method. If this turns out useful (from my perspective, anyway), I may try it again. I did find that my opinions of players was changing as I went along.
Living
Trisania
post 28 reads like she knows tcgw is town. "don't worry, I'll change my vote."
Comments on "dr crumbs". This has an earnest newbtown feel, and it's kind of early for a wily scum to point something in thread as a heads up to a hypothetical partner. It seems like this would make sense as a late comment if under lynch pressure rather than dropped on page 2 or 3.
49 has a town-paranoia sense to it.
57 has a newbtown Ah Ha feel.
78 bothers me for the same reason that 28 did. It's like she knows tcgw is town.
118 is goodposting.
I don't know why, but the rant in 142 doesn't feel genuine. Could be the word choice, which could be non-native-english. Overall, it feels like the sort of rant that a scum player might direct at their buddy. But, that's a more experienced sort of play than Trisiania has exhibited so far.
good pushback to grimgroove in 163.
thiscantgowrong
He's a waller. puts a lot of thought into the game. assumptions are naive at times. He doesn't like rvs, then votes cervantes in post 14 after zipper's argument.
"But it's been a year and a half since I played last (and that was in person not over a forum) and before that I'd only played a handful of games." - this makes some sense of his post content.
54 has a town outrage feel to it, though scum don't like to be misrepped either. The fact that he got temperish about it has a town feel.
56 is the infamous scum day chat "town tell". It's a reason to think town, but not a strong one. Lately I've been seeing "townslips" like this one show up in new-to-MS scum players. Starting to wonder if experienced scum aren't coaching their newb buddies before the game starts. Or maybe it's newbs who do a fair bit of prereading.
His later posts maintain that earnest feel. Not calling any out individually.
hayatoBLMontosh
21 Montosh sheeps grimgroove's tcgw vote. (hmm).
post 125 and 126 - this is pretty meticulous. Compare to his catch-up post after replacing in to newbie 1430. He's played 2 more games since that newbie which could account for the change in catch-up approach. Or could be the thread length at the time. Or maybe he's experimenting with different approaches to catch-up.
160 is goodposting. I agree with his vote here.
194 is also a good question to tcgw.
I liked 215 and the argument for scumhunting among newbies as well as experienced players. (I was "newbie" scum in my first MS game and although it wasn't easy, it seemed almost inevitable we'd win because I was severely underestimated.)
WBOCampfire1104
post 25 knows GiF, knows he's an asset, votes him. hmm.
post 42 looks like he's not really reading the thread, since tcgw's second post indicated he has past experience with f2f mafia.
71 marks a tone change of sorts. He's getting pushback and posts in more detail. I dunno why exactly, but this post bothers me a little. I think it's the way he opened the back door on his vote.
Reads list 94 - townreading trisania, scumreading tcgw. I had the idea at this point that a wbo/trisania scumteam miiiiiiight make sense, but wouldn't bank on it.
184 TNE unvote was good. No reason for scum to unvote at that point.
191, 192 In a way I like these posts, but they still bother me a little. They're angry. But there's maybe a flail feel to them.
205 also feels a little flaily but maybe a little town?
The turnaround in 427 and 431 bother me, but t seems more like a town reversal than a scum one.
Grimgroove
says thiscantgowrong isn't as newbie as he acts. not sure about this. like I said, naive assumptions look newb, but tcgw does own some f2f experience so meh.
post 39 is a good newb catch. Would scum-Grimgroove point this up? Maybe. Depends on who he's decided he wants to lynch. Still, townpoint.
Naked vote on TNE. 147 is the explanation. "Got time to talk?" at the end of that post has an odd feel given it's addressed to the person he's voting.
149 is goodposting. The back and forth with TNE feels...I dunno? A little hollow. TNE tends to be easy to mislynch, which is why I was surprised to see both GiF and GrimGroove go after him to the exclusion of other stuff. But, maybe it's knowing he was town that makes me think this should have come off as a bad lynch. :/ TNE's vote on tcgw was pretty bad though.
162 is sorta maybe but kinda not goodposting - trisania has been talking about what she will do, but he has also been getting stuff done. The snappish irritability has a town feel to it, though.
Nobody Special GiF (IC) - 111 distinction between abandoning theory and abandoning reads is goodposting.
120 - tne probscum is not goodposting. He never does make a strong case for tne-scum. He spends more time back-and-forth with Grimgroove than in efforts to sort the person he votes.
Dead
thenewearth, Vanilla Town, lynched Day 1
138 was a particularly town-soundng post from TNE. But, really all his posts had a sort of fuck you I'm town deal with it feel to them.
zipperflesh, Vanilla Town, killed Night 1
Zipper voted trisania in 85. hmm.
176 and earlier indicates preference for wdo wagon.
^^ This ties into that vibe I had about a WDO/trisania connection. The kill could point to wdo as well?
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