Mini Theme 1513: Theater Season Mafia: Day Four

[Psyche]

and psyche, you never expanded on this:

And I'm not.

[Lord Mastin II]

MafiaSSK

:

twicetherice

, Lord Mastin II, The Trollie, BROseidon, Psyche, penguin_alien, uctriton00, (LYNCH)

Leaving

Lord Mastin II,
The Trollie,
BROseidon,
Psyche,
penguin_alien,
uctriton00 (Hammer position)

One of these on the wagon is likely to be scum.


Gedak:

MafiaSSK

Alpazard: Smudger,
Trollie: Alpazard,
Lord Mastin II: Gedak, Mantisdreamz,


Leaving

Smudger
Alpazard
Gedak,
Mantisdreamz

and of course me since I had not voted off the wagon

One of these is very likely to be scum.

Do you really think that there are 2 scum on the SSK wagon M and M? Or 2 off of it?

Since there are 13 players, most likely there are 3 mafia. (since we only had one death last night, I doubt we have a 3rd party.)


I really do not see Mantis as scum based on her play. And she is a fairly strong town read since peeps voted for her for the play yesterday.



So I plan on looking more carefully at

Smudger
Alpazard
Gedak,

MOD EDIT: Someone forgot that green is the Mod's color (Rule 8, General Rules) Consider this just a friendly reminder/warning. Use Blue or Light Green if you need to use color to signify town vs scum flips.

Oh wow this is the first time in all the games I've been in with Rach that she has posted real, tangible content.

UNVOTE:

I see a lot of words and pages. I'll look at them later. Also Mastin is going to be gone until Monday at the earliest, so y'all are still stuck with just me.

[Psyche]

even then it's not very substantive

[Alpazard]

Catching up tomorrow, haven't read anything in pages.

- pi

[Gedak]

[Gedak,] did i miss something? did u claim some sort of role that meant you knew about SSK?

I was already pretty sure he was town for the reasons described in 619.

Additionally, as the deadline drew closer 567 made less and less sense from a scum-SSK perspective. In a lazy lurkertown deliberately inviting a wagon on yourself near the deadline is basically suicide. Did SSK hope to save himself with that pretty bad reads list in 600? He wasn't really making an effort to try to survive. I don't see why scum would have sacrificed one of their members day 1 for no reason. With no one jumping in to try to save him near the deadline I was increasingly more convinced that he was town.

[Gedak]

I'd like to hear about the case on uctriton00; I'm not seeing it.

SSK was obvtown at the end of the day (804). I was thinking about uct's terrible hammering of SSK and I think it makes more sense coming from scum.

As town one would have to believe that he preferred hammering a probtown potential PR when faced with even a hint of a chance of getting lynched himself. If this is true, then he was basically bringing up past grievances in previous games to justify playing against the town wincon:

Going to read mafia ssk because now they are probably town now.

"Also the town owes uctriton an apology for throwing him under the bus." - RXK

Haha and if Gedak is threatening a wagon then I'm going to save my own ass and hammer the day right now.
I'm not going to be one of those info martyrs like some players do.
vote: mafia ssk

I think scum is more likely to happen to end up playing against the town wincon than town is.

As scum his play sort of makes sense in that he may have thought that SSK was a PR based on 567, thinking that SSK was inviting a wagon in the confidence that he wasn't going to get lynched because he could just claim in the worst case scenario. This seems like an appropriately terrible train of thought that uct may have been thinking along these lines: uct may have had a hard time realising that SSK wouldn't have minded getting lynched too much. In such a case, uct may have thought it benefitical to risk quickhammering, especially if his own value is low to the scumteam (mafia traitor or maybe goon), and if there is a convenient excuse for his quickhammer: the "info martyr paranoia".

someone did say "want to try a triton lynch" so I hammered because I seriously thought I'd be in danger since admittedly my posts were reckless when I started getting mad (I tend to do that) and I've had enough experiences of myself and others being victims to a d1 lynch. I hate info lynches but it did give me a better view on psyche who was voting ssk apparently "cause of deadline".

This makes little sense as an explanation. He was worried about being seen as reckless and therefore he's decided to do something even more reckless (quickhammer)? He doesn't like info lynches, is worried about "others being victims to a d1 lynch", and therefore he's decided to perpetrate just that? This sounds like scum failing to provide a decent explanation for his opportunistic behaviour.

Additionally, uct's posts and reads have all been terrible and don't make any sense. I think there's a high chance that he's scum, but even in the unlikely case that he happens to be town, he's still negative utility, and would be a major liability at LYLO.

I'm already voting uct; you guys should too (but don't put him on L-1 yet! see: 728).

[Gedak]

just cause i had the king thing, it doesn't mean i'm going to start ordering people around.
[...]
i had no new info other than what i thought which was that the SSK wagon was not so great.

The reason you should have done it is not "just because you had the king thing" but because it's obviously in town's interest to avoid lynching probtown.

also thinking that mafiassk seems more townish and could be a lurker lynch that scum would be pleased with

I made it perfectly clear for you what the optimal town play in this situation would be in 636, and even provided likely scumtargets for you in 623, 633, 634 and 664.

So I propose that you have the final say on who gets lynched today and everyone follows you. Think through the arguments, place a vote, tell everyone to sheep you, let's do this thing.

You had one job.

You were either incompetent (which I have a hard time believing) or you did not actually want to help town. I think the same argument I made against uct applies to you as well: scum is more likely to happen to end up hurting town at a critical moment than real town is.

[Gedak]

actually, i can very much see psyche being scum

i think we need to get rid of him

vote him, guys
he is scum

he needs to go

See, Mantis, you

can

"start ordering people around" if you have the motivation!

[The Acting Method]

FLAVOR

In a matter of minutes you had begun to discuss the events that happened over your sleep. Uctriton fell under immediate suspicion for the way his hammer fell the day before. Other names were thrown left and right, the most prominent being Pysche and Alpazard. Both of whom were discussed the previous day as possible lynches. As far as who would be in charge of A Midsummer's Night Dream, Smudger and RachMarie were both brought up as choices very quickly with Gedak joining them as a third.

Vote Count 2.1

uctriton00: Psyche, Gedak,
Psyche: Mantisdreamz, BROseidon,
Alpazard: RachMarie, Smudger,
BROseidon: The Trollie,

Not Voting: Alpazard, penguin_alien, uctriton00, Lord Mastin II

Production Votes:

Smudger: Mantisdreamz,
Gedak: penguin_alien,
RachMarie: BROseidon,

Not Voting: Psyche, TheTrollie, RachMarie, uctriton00, Alpazard, Smudger, Lord Mastin II, Gedak

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to assign play

Day Ends (expired on 2013-12-12 17:30:00)

[Gedak]

most likely it is 3 mafia and no 3rd party with 13 players

Well Rach I think you miss one obvious reason why we only had one kill, that last night there was a block. Hmmmmm why would you not consider that?

I would not be surprised if Alpazard is actually TP rather than scum

Do you think my thoughts above regarding TP have mileage?

The wording of the town wincon makes it extremely unlikely that there is a third party.

That said, I think it is likely that the mafia are aware of the town wincon in the interest of fair play, so I don't see your posts as scumslips. Let's just not waste time on TP speculation.

[Gedak]

I want Mantis to explain what Cyrano does.

I think there's a high chance Mantis is scum (734, 806, 807, plus her bullshit case on Psyche while defending uct's hammer as "silly": 787).

If Mantis is scum, keeping Cyrano secret would be a huge danger to town. If Mantis is town, the benefits to keeping Cyrano secret are comparatively minimal, given it is 1x, and given that she has the option of using it before tonight.

So tell us about Cyrano.

[Gedak]

And in case Mantis responds by dayvigging me, my current reads are:

uctriton00: scummy
Mantisdreamz: scummy
BROseidon: leaning scum
Smudger: leaning scum
Psyche: null
TheTrollie: null
RachMarie: null
penguin_alien: leaning town
Lord Mastin II: leaning town
Alpazard: leaning town

[TheTrollie]

Damn it, guys. READ MANTIS'S SHIFT TO MY WAGON.

I did, it sucked...
anything I'm missing?

[Psyche]

Other names were thrown left and right, the most prominent being Pysche and Alpazard. Both of whom were discussed the previous day as possible lynches.

"Universal town read"

[Mantisdreamz]

Sorry on the phone and submitted instead of view. To continue Mantis you say it's by POE that Alp
Is scum, but there must be more? It seems that people have varying reads on the slot, why? Do you think my thoughts above regarding TP have mileage?

unfortunately, it really is just poe for me so far.. which ya, i guess doesn't make me as confident as i felt before. just that i feel strongly that the people i think are town, are indeed town.
i hadn't really thought about third party at all. i'm not actually sure it's even a good idea to start trying to classify people like that.. as in, i can't really see what good it would do. it'd be different if someone claimed TP and then, we decide whether to believe them or not, or if they're a danger? to town

[Mantisdreamz]

+Off the wall theory that's well put together but misses the larger picture and that tries to encourage town to make a dumb move under the pretense of it being smart.

explain why it's wrong

This post is scummy.

Cheeky response to question instead of being annoyed by it

why would town be more likely to be annoyed?

Damn it, guys. READ MANTIS'S SHIFT TO MY WAGON.

i know you're not asking me, but it looked like you just shrugged off the accusation (that you were part of the twicetherice kill). i know best thing for scum to do, with for example, if they have votes on them, is to just ignore it, or make it look like it doesn't bother you.

also, why won't you expand on the hunch?

[Mantisdreamz]

just cause i had the king thing, it doesn't mean i'm going to start ordering people around.
[...]
i had no new info other than what i thought which was that the SSK wagon was not so great.

The reason you should have done it is not "just because you had the king thing" but because it's obviously in town's interest to avoid lynching probtown.

i already said that i wasn't really paying close attention to just how close SSK was at and didn't expect him to be hammered. i think it was saturday night, i was in the process of building some stupid ikea furniture and was sporadically checking the game from my phone. i wasn't able to state a huge case on LM2 in order to move the votes, at the time, anyway.

You were either incompetent (which I have a hard time believing) or you did not actually want to help town. I think the same argument I made against uct applies to you as well: scum is more likely to happen to end up hurting town at a critical moment than real town is.

incompetent then, busy works too.


speaking of, why do you have Lord Mastin as town? and smudger as scum??
(i looked ahead to your list of reads -- which are nearly opposite of mine) emphasis on 'nearly'

[Mantisdreamz]

Damn it, guys. READ MANTIS'S SHIFT TO MY WAGON.

I did, it sucked...
anything I'm missing?

you are that sure that psyche is town?

[Mantisdreamz]

I want Mantis to explain what Cyrano does.

I think there's a high chance Mantis is scum (734, 806, 807, plus her bullshit case on Psyche while defending uct's hammer as "silly": 787).

If Mantis is scum, keeping Cyrano secret would be a huge danger to town. If Mantis is town, the benefits to keeping Cyrano secret are comparatively minimal, given it is 1x, and given that she has the option of using it before tonight.

So tell us about Cyrano.

i can submit it right now, gedak -- and then you can see what it is!

[Psyche]

i know you're not asking me, but it looked like you just shrugged off the accusation (that you were part of the twicetherice kill). i know best thing for scum to do, with for example, if they have votes on them, is to just ignore it, or make it look like it doesn't bother you.

Can you tell me what town-psyche would've done in response to an accusation as silly as that?

[Psyche]

We should ask ourselves why the confirmed PR with probable investigative role and lots of towncred survived the Night.

The best answer that presumes mantis is town is, "they were afraid of a doc".
But scum with even one competent member would probably conclude that our faction's ability to vote into being a PR is something that would deeply imbalance the game if there is also a Doctor in the game. Either the scum have many powerful abilities, or its unreasonable to think a Doc was protecting mantis.

Another answer is the one mantis awkwardly volunteered just now.
I say awkward because he brought up twicetherice completely out of the blue, and within the context of sudden paranoia of my apparent "excessive towniness", a happy condition I didn't know I was suffering from until page 30.
That answer is that the scum gave up killing a confirmed town PR who prob had an investigative rule...in order to create WIFOM.
WIFOM is a much less tangible edge than "less town PRs", so I'm pretty dubious. Besides, that sort of edge would probably have become clear much earlier than D2...right now.

This isn't to say that mantis is definitely scum because of what happened. Scum might just be really dumb. But that's not that likely. At the very least, we should be more suspicious than we were before.

Guys, is there any reason we shouldn't have mantis claim his/her PR?
After all, she isn't confirmed town, and it's probably useful to hold her accountable for it if it leads to bad consequences.

[Mantisdreamz]

i know you're not asking me, but it looked like you just shrugged off the accusation (that you were part of the twicetherice kill). i know best thing for scum to do, with for example, if they have votes on them, is to just ignore it, or make it look like it doesn't bother you.

Can you tell me what town-psyche would've done in response to an accusation as silly as that?

it wasn't that silly. its not like you're confirmed town

[Mantisdreamz]

alright, action submitted gedak-- for you

[Psyche]

Can you tell me what town-psyche would've done in response to an accusation as silly as that?

[Mantisdreamz]

Can you tell me what town-psyche would've done in response to an accusation as silly as that?

no, i cannot. this is the first game i've played with you
maybe you should explain yourself