Newbie 1449: Return of the Van [Game Over!]

[WBOCampfire1104]

--TCGW REPLACEMENT RUMORS--
Our Mod asked in the newbie queue, with no reply so far. Since tcgw has a newbie slot, no SE or IC can replace him. All I saw for noobs was shark-something. He looked like another TNE or zipperflesh.

[Trisania]

Not much posts by NS until now, and he haven't done anything to continue his "case" against WBO.

Hayato is still scummy to me, and his interest on Grim still smells like buddying.

But if I were to choose between them, it would be:

VOTE: Nobody Special

Sorry, hayato, I won't countervote you yet. NS's lack of activity is scummier to me. But if NS gets lynched and flips town, you'll be my primary suspect on D3, if I still live to see it.

[Untrod Tripod]

Votecount 2.6

Cervantes
Grimgroove - 2 (thiscantgowrong, WBO)
Nobody Special - 2 (Grimgroove, Trisania)
hatatoBL
thiscantgowrong
Trisania - 1 (hayatoBL)
WBOCampfire1104

Not Voting - 2 (Cervantes, Nobody Special)

With 7 alive it's 4 to lynch. Deadline is 11/28 at 5PM EST.

[fferyllt]

@ffreryllt

382
I don’t think WBO is scum. WBO-scum would know that Zip and TNE were town. WBO-scum’s changing vote from Zip to TNE doesn’t make sense. He put Zip on L-4, unvote Zip and then he put TNE on L-1. Isn’t that very counter-intuitive?

Why do you think it's counter-intuitive?

@WDO

You keep skipping over my posts to you.

Asking questions can help a player find scum. The answer to a question will either come from a town pov, a scum pov or a neutral pov. Rocking a player off balance is also helpful in figuring out their alignment.

Is it a particular type of question that you find scummy?

--TCGW REPLACEMENT RUMORS--
Our Mod asked in the newbie queue, with no reply so far. Since tcgw has a newbie slot, no SE or IC can replace him. All I saw for noobs was shark-something. He looked like another TNE or zipperflesh.

^^ That is not how replacements work. Experienced players can replace into newbie slots, and often do. In fact, I think my slot was originally a newbie slot. Newbies can't replace into SE or IC slots.

ALSO:

PLEASE STOP SPECULATING OUT LOUD ABOUT POWER ROLES.

Thank you.

[WBOCampfire1104]

Sorry. If everyone wants to stop rolefishing, OK.
@fferylit
With the questions, I think the more specific ones are worse, such as, how does so-and-so relate to so-and-so with blank in mind? Generally they don't help, but if you want someone to realize something, directly tell them. You'll
look less scummy.

[WBOCampfire1104]

With that in mind, the replacements are
goodmorning
sharksword2
Kassadin
drmyshotgun

[fferyllt]

Replacements PM the mod and volunteer to take the open slot. Except for newbies that never pick up their role PM, they don't come out of the 2nd post of the Newbie Queue.

Speculating about who might be the replacement is pretty much a waste of time. I have no idea what you think is gained by watching the queue for player names.

[WBOCampfire1104]

Touché. I'm just excited for his replacement.

[Grimgroove]

ffeyrllt, what do you think of WBO's case on me?
I think you know as well as I do that it doesn't make any sense to approach the game the way he does, but I haven't seen you comment on it, while I'm pretty sure you could bring under words better than I could as to why.

[Trisania]

^If I may comment...

I honestly think it doesn't make sense. He reads you as scum for the same reason I read you as town - the seemingly-soft-claim-but-apparently-isn't post.

For me it was something scum WOULN'T do, since it would bring unnecessary and too early attention upon one's self for "claiming" so early, while for him, you made a fake-claim.

He seems hasty and too eager, but it earned him town points for being way TOO eager with his "revolutionary" votes.

[Grimgroove]

Yes, pretty sure he's town too, but terrible misguided. And since his guidance-system is currently pointing to me, I'm not the person who can talk him out of that so I'm counting on the rest of town to do it.

The debate about my psychiatrist-post doesn't make sense for either of you. It shouldn't make me town, it shouldn't make me scum. It was an entirely innocent metaphor that I didn't think would be interpreted any way other than the way I intended it to.

[Grimgroove]

Town

tcgo - transparent play, mostly
hayato - despite a twitch on my part here and there, I found myself agreeing with him a lot as I read through day 1. Especially as he pushed the WDO wagon in the face of near inevitable tne lynch. Given his level of experience, this wasn't something I'd expect.

Maybe a little bit less town

trisania (mostly because of that tenuous feel of a connection with WDO. I usually want to take this sort of play, call it newb obvtown, and never look back.)
Grimgroove (mostly because I feel like he's not picking up on the right stuff so far, but maybe I'm the one who's off.

Not very town

WDO - bits of flail here and there, maybe a "fosed for the wrong reasons" feel to his anger about being called out for inactivity due to the ipod trouble. Also, interestng that zipper dead given his vote following hayato. Which of those two would look scarier to newbscum?
NS - GiF's play was underwhelming. There were ~reasons~ but I really need to see some serious town play from NS to wash those concerns out of my mind.

Two questions:

1. "he's not picking up on the right stuff": What is "the right stuff" in your eyes? I haven't seen you pick up much yourself. What have I picked up that was wrong?
2. Noticing that Nobody Special is your main scumread, I'm very surprised with the tone that you take with him in your interactions with him afterwards, let alone the glaring lack of said interactions. Compared to the way you're putting pressure on WBO, you're giving Nobody special much more leniency. Why is this? Or why is my observation in this regard wrong, in case it is?

[Trisania]

Yes, pretty sure he's town too, but terrible misguided. And since his guidance-system is currently pointing to me, I'm not the person who can talk him out of that

so I'm counting on the rest of town to do it.

Tried to do just that, but my efforts were worth two facepalms from him.

The debate about my psychiatrist-post doesn't make sense for either of you. It shouldn't make me town, it shouldn't make me scum. It was an entirely innocent metaphor that I didn't think would be interpreted any way other than the way I intended it to.

Well, the way it made sense in my mind made me believe you're town.

[Grimgroove]

@Hayato:

407
Are you saying NONE of my points shows, that Tris is giving off scumvibes? Post 286. Post 301.

Let me get back to you on that. I didn't get into it because I always prefer to person himself defending himself first.

I'm sorry I didn't do this yet, but those posts are difficult to read, with these attack and defense numbers. Could you give an overview that is more accessible of your arguments against Trisiana?

[Grimgroove]

I JUST NOTICED THE DEADLINE IS TOMORROW!!!!

Time to get moving people.
fferyllt, please answer my questions before this day is over.

More pressure on the Nobody Special wagon please.

[Grimgroove]

@mod

: Could you include a countdown-timer with the deadline? Not everyone lives in the same timezone and will be calculating the exact time of deadline in their timezone.

[Grimgroove]

With thiscantgowrong needing replacement I think we should get an extension actually.

[Grimgroove]

a) You posted a bunch of reads on Post 118. Yet, you vote 14 posts later (your own post), which is on post 180. I think that’s fear. Fear of making enemies. You say your opinion is still ‘subject to change’. But when you vote on ZF, there was no change. You sticked to your reads on Post 118.

I don't really consider this an argument. You attribute fear to it, and then turn the fear into something scummy.
Having an opinion that is subject to change, doesn't mean the opinion WILL change. A twig can be subject to breaking, but if the circumstances are right, it can remain rooted in the ground and turn into a tree.

b) On post 210, you said TNE’s “I-don’t-care-attitude” can be both scum and town. But on post 267 you say, that same attitude convinced you of his innocence. You’re being inconsistent and I think, you were trying to get a halo-effect by defending a town player.

Inconsistency is also a petpeeve of mine, but his first post pointed out three possibilities. The problem does come with the second, but where you see someone trying to get a halo-effect, I see a newbie eager to show she's got good reads. I don't really see anything scummy behind saying she was thinking TheNewEarth as town. What is consistent and what is far more important, is the fact she didn't vote for TheNewEarth, pointing to her deciding that option number 1 of her post 267 must have been the most probable in her opinion.

c) Before you voted on Cervantes, the last time you read him was a town read which was on Post 118. And suddenly, you scum read him on Post 241. Your reasons for it is:

@hayato: My town read on him "yesterday" was more than real world days ago.

It changed when he said this

:

Was away from home last few days. Catching up atm.

He hasn't posted anything since then, even short comments on the wall posts. True, he could have been really busy. But as I said, he could have requested for a replacement days ago if that was the case.

I will revise my vote once I see someone else more scum read-worthy.

Tell me. What is there in Cervantes’ post, which makes you change your read from town to scum?

Trisiana already answered this herself adequately I think. I don't think the point you brought up is bad, but it's not convincing either.

[Trisania]

What's a halo effect? Does it refer to the literal halo on an angel, to mean that someone is trying to appear good?

[fferyllt]

Town

tcgo - transparent play, mostly
hayato - despite a twitch on my part here and there, I found myself agreeing with him a lot as I read through day 1. Especially as he pushed the WDO wagon in the face of near inevitable tne lynch. Given his level of experience, this wasn't something I'd expect.

Maybe a little bit less town

trisania (mostly because of that tenuous feel of a connection with WDO. I usually want to take this sort of play, call it newb obvtown, and never look back.)
Grimgroove (mostly because I feel like he's not picking up on the right stuff so far, but maybe I'm the one who's off.

Not very town

WDO - bits of flail here and there, maybe a "fosed for the wrong reasons" feel to his anger about being called out for inactivity due to the ipod trouble. Also, interestng that zipper dead given his vote following hayato. Which of those two would look scarier to newbscum?
NS - GiF's play was underwhelming. There were ~reasons~ but I really need to see some serious town play from NS to wash those concerns out of my mind.

Two questions:

1. "he's not picking up on the right stuff": What is "the right stuff" in your eyes? I haven't seen you pick up much yourself. What have I picked up that was wrong?

The whole TNE is town stuff, that was something you didn't pick up that seemed pretty clear when I read day 1. But, you know, if you and I did have strong agreement on the game state that would probably be a first and it would freak me the hell out and I'd probably decide you're scum.

2. Noticing that Nobody Special is your main scumread, I'm very surprised with the tone that you take with him in your interactions with him afterwards, let alone the glaring lack of said interactions. Compared to the way you're putting pressure on WBO, you're giving Nobody special much more leniency. Why is this? Or why is my observation in this regard wrong, in case it is?

And yet, oddly enough my virtual vote is on NS and barring something earthshattering my actual vote will be on him in a few hours. There's nothing to really grapple with in his posts. If he posted the case he promised, I missed it.

WDO is making me crazy, though. There are so many red flags in his play, but it's also so chaotically newb that as much as I want to track every inconsistency down and shake it, I've concluded it would be a complete waste of time.

It really bugs me that he doesn't answer questions.

[fferyllt]

With thiscantgowrong needing replacement I think we should get an extension actually.

@Mod could we get an extension for the replacement?

[Trisania]

@Nobody Special:

Where is your case against WBO? Who do you think is his partner?

[WBOCampfire1104]

Well, it's a noob game. You learn. I was actually more agressive Day 1, as I didn't vote anyone 1st half of today. I'm just very confident about Grimgroove.

[fferyllt]

VOTE: Nobody Special

That is L-1.

If you intend to vote him, then post intent first and give him a chance to claim.

By my count it's just under 28.5 hours to nightfall at the time of this post.

[hayatoBL]

I declare my intention to hammer NS.

Please claim.