Mini 1520: Neighborhood Mafia - Game over!

[goodnight]

What I meant by 'secrets' is that you had the chance to discuss the setup with Thad, and he probably brought up specific edgecases and situations where he was worried the balance had slipped -- things like that, where his analysis was probably deeper than mine, and where you might have picked insights up osmotically. I've analyzed the setup -- I've written two pages of notes on the setup, actually, but I think it's very likely there are things you know or have considered that I haven't.

Actually, it was more like ThAd said, "Hey you want to review a setup? Here it is." and plopped it in my lap. Most of the concerns were mine, as were most of the change suggestions. As I said, I really don't have as much insight as you'd think, and anything I have to say about the setup is best reserved for the postgame.

Pre edit: So dgb, do you believe in super duper secret scumtells that aren't really scumtells?

ARE YOU TRYING TO TEACH ME HOW TO SCUM HUNT

Well somebody has to. Why not the confirmed town? Speaking of which, why'd you feel it necessary to respond in that way to someone who is only trying to understand your thought process?

I'm not sure what to think about the Ald/SSK back and forth. Both of their actions toward each other are a little strange and don't come off as genuine. Leaning toward mutual distancing atm.

-Night

[Alduskkel]

Yeah, for the most part I like to not go on both the offensive and the defensive at the same time. It just doesn't really work for me.

That seems terribly limiting. Why doesn't it work for you?

@goodnight: What's not genuine about either of us?

[goodnight]

@goodnight: What's not genuine about either of us?

Just the way you both suddenly backed off your votes just didn't feel right to me. It felt staged.

-Night

[Alduskkel]

But I'm still voting MafiaSSK...

[goodnight]

He votes you for voting Landmind.
You appease him by unvoting.
He continues to push you.
You point out your unvote.
He immediately unvotes you.

I'm sorry. That doesn't feel like a genuine interaction to me. If you felt that Landmind was actually scum, why would it matter if someone is voting you for it? Similarly, why would SSK immediately unvote you after you point out you're no longer doing the action he voted you for in the first place? The normal reaction would be to suspect your unvote and your pointing it out, but SSK accepts it immediately, as if you were going "Hey buddy, I'm no longer voting that guy and have moved on. Stick to the plan. You can lay off me now.".

-Night

[Alduskkel]

I voted Landmind because Landmind changed his posting style, not to appease MafiaSSK.

The rest of that you can take up with MafiaSSK, but I agree with you that he doesn't seem genuine.

[goodnight]

I voted Landmind because Landmind changed his posting style, not to appease MafiaSSK.

Why does that matter? Couldn't Landmind be scum trying to appease town so as not to be lynched?

-Night

[Alduskkel]

He could be, but if I chose to interpret it that way for no reason then that

would

be tunneling.

[goodnight]

He could be, but if I chose to interpret it that way for no reason then that

would

be tunneling.

Your point being what? That you didn't want to give SSK a reason to vote you? Sounds self conscious to me.

-Night

[Alduskkel]

No, the point is that I don't think Landmind was scummy for changing how they posted. So I didn't keep my vote on.

What's your read on Landmind?

[goodnight]

What's your read on Landmind?

Leaning scum. I don't like his posting style either, as I feel it's a smokescreen he can hide behind. I also didn't like how he tried to imply we were scum for not sharing what we knew of the setup. I didn't like the way he backpedaled when I attacked him for his allegations. I don't like how he tried to appease the town when he saw that his posting style was garnering suspicion. And finally, I don't like how he's trying to manipulate the setup by finding a backdoor to figure out the mod's intentions. Given the way the game is put together, there is no town motivation for that, as the scum side of the setup is pretty straight forward. The only side that would benefit from such knowledge is scum, as they would need to have a better understanding of how the town power would work, since there is more and it is also more varied.

-Night

[ThAdmiral]

Vote Count

notscience - 1 (Jake from State Farm)
MafiaSSK - 3 (DrDoolittle, Alduskkel, 1baldeagle1)
DrippingGoofball
Alduskkel - 2 (MafiaSSK, Landmind)
1baldeagle1
goodnight
DrDolittle
Landmind
Sanhora - 2 (DrippingGoofball, Mac)
PrivateI
Mac - 1 (goodnight)
Jake from State Farm - 1 (PrivateI)

[DrippingGoofball]

Pre edit: So dgb, do you believe in super duper secret scumtells that aren't really scumtells?

ARE YOU TRYING TO TEACH ME HOW TO SCUM HUNT

Well somebody has to. Why not the confirmed town? Speaking of which, why'd you feel it necessary to respond in that way to someone who is only trying to understand your thought process?

One of us can't tell difference between "snark" and "trying to understand someone's thought processes." Could be you, could be me.

[Jake from State Farm]

Mod can we get a prod on sanhora please?

Thank you

[MafiaSSK]

Yeah, for the most part I like to not go on both the offensive and the defensive at the same time. It just doesn't really work for me.

That seems terribly limiting. Why doesn't it work for you?

@goodnight: What's not genuine about either of us?

I just get caught up in the inertia, I guess, of being defensive. I dunno.

[goodnight]

Hmmmmm...

Vote: Mac

-Good

Explain?

1. He didn't post a case so I can only assume he agrees with DGB's assessment of sanhora. Problem with that is I don't think English is his first language.
Could be wrong, but that would explain the stilting far better than "oh it feels scummy"
2. He didn't post a case. Granted pot calling kettle here, but A. I'm posting one now and B. I don't like that.
3. Implied minor sheeping of DGB.
4. He didn't say hi :[

I've been mildly distracted recently. Expect me firmly ensconced in this game shortly.

-Good

[Jake from State Farm]

Hmmmmm...

Vote: Mac

-Good

Explain?

1. He didn't post a case so I can only assume he agrees with DGB's assessment of sanhora. Problem with that is I don't think English is his first language.
Could be wrong, but that would explain the stilting far better than "oh it feels scummy"
2. He didn't post a case. Granted pot calling kettle here, but A. I'm posting one now and B. I don't like that.
3. Implied minor sheeping of DGB.
4. He didn't say hi :[

I've been mildly distracted recently. Expect me firmly ensconced in this game shortly.

-Good

please tell me you have more to go on, if not shame on you.

[DrDolittle]

goodnight - do you think your mac read is currently better than you ssk/ald read?

[goodnight]

goodnight - do you think your mac read is currently better than you ssk/ald read?

Different heads. Different reads. I'm assuming my reads are a little stronger, since I was given the go ahead to change our vote if I wanted to.

-Night

[Landmind]

Yeah, for the most part I like to not go on both the offensive and the defensive at the same time. It just doesn't really work for me.

SSK, stop being so scummy while my hands are full with Alduskkel. Everybody who deserves it will get their turn.

So I have to play like my 2012 self, AND you get to judge that I'm scum because in 3 pages I haven't played as such? What evidence do you even have that I tunnel more as scum, as opposed to me just changing my playstyle since then -- alternatively, I could be acting differently because it's RVS. Or because you are/were more annoying than torgonitoh.

Well, yeah, or you could have been replaced by a UFO or devoured by your Mafia-starved stunt double. But just listing contingencies doesn't get us any closer to the truth, so why don't you tell me which one is true? That's getting into trust-tell territory, but you can't seriously say "maybe my meta's not like that" and not throw us some kind of bone. I guess I get a bad (read: scummy) gutfeeling from the lack of forthcomingness here, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt so don't take it to heart.

Also, you can't play the "RVS doesn't matter" card ("you get to judge that I'm scum because in 3 pages" "I could be acting differently because it's RVS") point when you previously called SSK out for saying the same thing. ("Because I'm so worried about looking bad on page 4. Yup. That's me." "Hiding behind sarcasm, are we?")

While Ald chews on that, here's a non-meta reason he's scummy --

So I'm focusing on Landmind -- what makes that different from anyone else focusing on one person? In other words, what makes what I'm doing tunneling?

Is tunneling scummy or just anti-town? Because townies are known to tunnel.

He's saying "I'm not doing antitown things" and "hey, even if I were to start doing antitown things, I wouldn't necessarily be scummy" at the same time. So what the underlying meaning here is is that he expects to get caught doing antitown things and he already wants to throw down a shovel for when he needs to dig himself out of that particular well.

Actually, in general, the last few pages have been all about that distinction, and I have a feeling that's going to be a recurring theme for a while now.

[PrivateI]

Hmmmmm...

Vote: Mac

-Good

Explain?

1. He didn't post a case so I can only assume he agrees with DGB's assessment of sanhora. Problem with that is I don't think English is his first language.
Could be wrong, but that would explain the stilting far better than "oh it feels scummy"
2. He didn't post a case. Granted pot calling kettle here, but A. I'm posting one now and B. I don't like that.
3. Implied minor sheeping of DGB.
4. He didn't say hi :[

I've been mildly distracted recently. Expect me firmly ensconced in this game shortly.

-Good

please tell me you have more to go on, if not shame on you.

How much more would you expect at this stage in the game? Just a few pages in, we can see that three of the four reasons are perfectly valid and would be considered minor scum tells, thus the vote. As for you, your vote is built on no case whatsoever, and you have done nothing to correct that. Do you have any reads?

I'm looking at the goodnight hydra as fairly together, and town right now, based primarily on recent posts.

Alduskkel, in post 57, you appear to almost set up for future failure...instead of simply stating that you aren't doing things that are anti town, you attempt to justify your past actions, and subsequently, future actions, by stating that townies can do anti town things as well...

DrippingGoofball, why the notscience town read? And if you're not relying on the wiki for your scum tells, is it simply intuition that you go to in order to find scum?

[Jake from State Farm]

How much more would you expect at this stage in the game? Just a few pages in, we can see that three of the four reasons are perfectly valid and would be considered minor scum tells, thus the vote. As for you, your vote is built on no case whatsoever, and you have done nothing to correct that. Do you have any reads?

absolutely none of those reasons are minor scumtells. The sheeping is kind of a pet peeve of mine but others say that is null since town sheep probably more then scum.

not sure why you felt the need to defend goodnight's actions instead of letting them defend their own actions.

You are correct that my vote isn't based on a case, it's a policy lynch. Policy lynches usually don't have a case attached except to say that this player plays eeriliy similar as town and as scum, meaning that he will do nothing but lurk and be useless. The quote on my Wiki from Quadz sums it up best

" Also, I agree 100% with Flay and Kuribo. Lynch the shit out of bad/useless people on D1 unless they are literally confirmed town"

Do I have reads? actually not really cause I haven't been paying attention, no need to pay attention if my vote isn't going to change.

[Jake from State Farm]

oh and look at the activity log, guess who is lurking... yeah Notscience

i'm good with my vote

[DrippingGoofball]

oh and look at the activity log, guess who is lurking... yeah Notscience

i'm good with my vote

Maybe we have a vig?

[Jake from State Farm]

maybe, but my luck never works out that way