Micro 267 - Indie Game: The UPick - Game Over!

[XScorpion]

I wanted to see the difference between Desperado's

reaction

to

that

and Desperado's reaction to this:

To what? What reaction?

[Who]

His lack of reaction to my voteless accusation.

[Turkish Van]

I'm finding it a bit harder than normal to get into this game. I'm not sure if it's because there's a lot of newer players I don't have experience with. I know only {BRO, Desperdo, GG}. Which for some reason in itself I'm having trouble getting a read on any of those three players too. Desperado I don't have much experience in reading as I only played with Town-Town Desp-Mala once the rest we were either scum-buddies or I was scum against a town Desperado. GG is interesting as I was only scum with him once, played with town GG twice and read him wrong twice and scum GG I had pinged in gut, but never followed it up well. As for BRO I really have only played against him as scum so it was a lot easier to fabricate a read on him off his posts.

Peng and I are currently discussing Hermy. However I don't really see how the "slap fight" between GG and XS is alignment indicative as any player can forget where the votes are. I want her to explain that further.

However I can say GG defending Hermy in a sense to keep pressure off her is eyeballing. My gut says it's partner defending a partner, but I feel like it's most likely scum defending possible town for some cred if Hermy were to flip in the future.

(Also this is the only time I will sign my posts. Any posts not signed is likely Mala in the future)

~ Mala

You say you are "currently discussing" Hermy with the other head. What is there to discuss? What did you discuss? Why Hermy specifically?

And for the record, before this thing starts leading its own life: I never defended Hermy. I simply advocated another approach based on my earlier experiences with her. Just read the game I linked you to earlier you'll see perfectly where I'm coming from. Even that game itself I had resevrations about Baezu because of her lynchbait characteristics, but still went after her in the end after she failed in some reaction tests. And I went after Hermy for not recognizing the fact she was lynchbait as well. Lynchbaits are lynchbaits exactly because they fail reaction tests, regardless of alignment. So how to discern the alignment of lynchbait? Not through reaction tests, but by letting them act on their own accord.

Penguin was in that game as well by the way.

Did you read the other two games I referenced? Because Hermy was actually scum in those two games, and not following through in the Narnia game meant that she survived Day One and the one-shot cop had to use his shot on her, IIRC. So I'm not inclined to give her oodles of space in a Micro game.

I like XScorpion's vote on Who. Not because I'm particularly suspicious of Who, but because it shows he's not resting on his reads.

Although I'm not sure about this 'vote as a reaction test while calling it a reaction test' thing.

Will calibrate with Mala before moving forward.

--PA

[Alduskkel]

Vote Count 1.07

Desperado (2) - BROseidon, Who
BROseidon (2) - Trine, Desperado
Who (1) - XScorpion
Hermy (1) - Turkish Van
Trine (1) - Grimgroove

Not Voting (2) - TierShift, Hermy

9 alive, 5 to lynch.

Deadline is on December 14th, 12 p.m. PST.

Countdown:
(expired on 2013-12-14 12:00:00)

TierShift replaces Sanhora.

[Hermy]

Prod dodge. Just give me a sec.

[Desperado]

2) Point stands: unless you've read a lot of my games, you don't have much range with my gameplay to define how I "normally" behave and how frequently our thoughts aline.

In your opinion. Glad to know you're not telling me I'm wrong, just that I don't have enough evidence to support my conclusion.

[Hermy]

My townread on Desp has been kinda diminishing. I've skimmed through one or two of his other (town) games and I'm pretty comfortable with a VOTE: Desp.

Also, not a fan of the post above mine. Twisting BRO's words a bit, and I find that to be somewhat of a scumtell.

[Desperado]

How am I twisting his words? He's literally saying "Nuh uh, you haven't played enough games with me to say for sure!" which is definitely not "no, you're wrong about that thing you said."

Which games did you skim and how am I different here?

[Who]

UNVOTE:

Desp goes back to null.

[Grimgroove]

I'm finding it a bit harder than normal to get into this game. I'm not sure if it's because there's a lot of newer players I don't have experience with. I know only {BRO, Desperdo, GG}. Which for some reason in itself I'm having trouble getting a read on any of those three players too. Desperado I don't have much experience in reading as I only played with Town-Town Desp-Mala once the rest we were either scum-buddies or I was scum against a town Desperado. GG is interesting as I was only scum with him once, played with town GG twice and read him wrong twice and scum GG I had pinged in gut, but never followed it up well. As for BRO I really have only played against him as scum so it was a lot easier to fabricate a read on him off his posts.

Peng and I are currently discussing Hermy. However I don't really see how the "slap fight" between GG and XS is alignment indicative as any player can forget where the votes are. I want her to explain that further.

However I can say GG defending Hermy in a sense to keep pressure off her is eyeballing. My gut says it's partner defending a partner, but I feel like it's most likely scum defending possible town for some cred if Hermy were to flip in the future.

(Also this is the only time I will sign my posts. Any posts not signed is likely Mala in the future)

~ Mala

You say you are "currently discussing" Hermy with the other head. What is there to discuss? What did you discuss? Why Hermy specifically?

And for the record, before this thing starts leading its own life: I never defended Hermy. I simply advocated another approach based on my earlier experiences with her. Just read the game I linked you to earlier you'll see perfectly where I'm coming from. Even that game itself I had resevrations about Baezu because of her lynchbait characteristics, but still went after her in the end after she failed in some reaction tests. And I went after Hermy for not recognizing the fact she was lynchbait as well. Lynchbaits are lynchbaits exactly because they fail reaction tests, regardless of alignment. So how to discern the alignment of lynchbait? Not through reaction tests, but by letting them act on their own accord.

Penguin was in that game as well by the way.

Did you read the other two games I referenced? Because Hermy was actually scum in those two games, and not following through in the Narnia game meant that she survived Day One and the one-shot cop had to use his shot on her, IIRC. So I'm not inclined to give her oodles of space in a Micro game.

I like XScorpion's vote on Who. Not because I'm particularly suspicious of Who, but because it shows he's not resting on his reads.

Although I'm not sure about this 'vote as a reaction test while calling it a reaction test' thing.

Will calibrate with Mala before moving forward.

--PA

You didn't really answer my question. You said you were "discussing" Hermy at a time where we were still pretty early on in the game.

I've seen the reference to in-hydra discussions used as a towntell, somehow showing the genuinety of the scumhunting hydra,k but I'm not sold in this case. I want to know what Malakittens said about Hermy, I want to know what you said about Hermy. I want to know what you supposedly discussed.

[Grimgroove]

Could you tell me what the purpose of making such a comment is? I don't see it.

To point out that you're misrepping your own play in an attempt to make it look better.

Sorry not sorry that you can't read through the sarcasm.

What makes you think my representation of my own play is a misrep, and yours isn't? Show how my representation doesn't add up instead of making non-sarcastic sarcastic comments that don't lead anywhere but aggravation.

[Grimgroove]

UNVOTE:

Desp goes back to null.

Why? What did he do?

[Grimgroove]

It's associative and contingent on Desp being scum.

So obviously I'm pushing Desp before anyone else.

How is Grim connected to Desp?

-Amadeus

Duo-ISO them. They're avoiding each other.

Avoiding?
What kind of argumentation is that? Especially this early in the game...
A quick skim of ISO's has revealed you have said nothing about or to Who, and Who has said nothing about and to you.
Does this mean you are avoiding Who?

I think for each and every person you'll be able to find an example of someone they didn't interact with very deeply yet.

Your arguments are really all over the place. I'm now faced with a paradox: last time we played together you left a much bigger town-impression on me, but you ended up being scum. What to make of you now, seeing you grasp at straws like the above? Further interactions will be needed.

VOTE: BROseidon

Upside: at least people won't be saying we're avoiding each other.

[Grimgroove]

Implicitly everyone that isn't Desp/GG

If you want relative strength beyond that, I'm not giving that out yet

I need to stop hydra slipping :/

Such a strong focus based on gut + a weak associative doesn't feel right at all. Worst kind of POE I've ever seen.

[TierShift]

Hi guys!

I've been doing some catching up and I think I'm good now, feel free to notify me of anything I've missed.

A what

Reach.

Trying to make something out of nothing.

I find it weird that you accuse other people of reaching, because it seems, that you've been doing the same, in particular in posts 122 and 167. Your trying to connect desp and gg is quite unfounded.

VOTE: BROseidon

Desp gives me scummy vibes too, but I can't exactly point out why.

[XScorpion]

^ You missed putting BRO to L-1 and not even mentioning it. I did the math right this time. What are you trying to pull here?
VOTE: Tiershift

UNVOTE:

Desp goes back to null.

Why? What did he do?

[TierShift]

Woah woah bad entrance...can't believe I missed that vote right before me...*facepalm*

UNVOTE:

I don't feel like it's time for L-1 yet.

[XScorpion]

mhm okay sure.
Do you have anything to say about anyone OTHER than BROseidon?

[TierShift]

Well I did do ISO's on everyone but that was more for myself, trying to make comprehensive thoughts of them is gonna be costing some time. Just ask about a read on anyone and I'll gladly answer.

[XScorpion]

I think it would be most useful if you gave your read on Des, given that so many people think he is scummy yet you voted for the other wagon.

[BROseidon]

In your opinion. Glad to know you're not telling me I'm wrong, just that I don't have enough evidence to support my conclusion.

Oh yes, let me just say "lolno" instead of trying to work you into a corner by pointing out your shitty trajectory.

What makes you think my representation of my own play is a misrep, and yours isn't? Show how my representation doesn't add up instead of making non-sarcastic sarcastic comments that don't lead anywhere but aggravation.

You said you weren't defending Hermy RIGHT AFTER YOU FUCKING TRIED TO DIFFUSE A WAGON ON HER IN A PRETTY SHITTY WAY. HOLY FUCKING SHIT, MY SARCASM WAS LITERALLY SAYING "THIS STATEMENT YOU'VE MADE ABOUT YOURSELF IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU DID."

PLEASE TELL ME YOU'RE SCUM AND NOT JUST AN IDIOT. PLEASE.

A quick skim of ISO's has revealed you have said nothing about or to Who, and Who has said nothing about and to you.
Does this mean you are avoiding Who?

Yes. If one of us flips scum, it makes for a decent associative case on the other.

Your arguments are really all over the place. I'm now faced with a paradox: last time we played together you left a much bigger town-impression on me, but you ended up being scum. What to make of you now, seeing you grasp at straws like the above? Further interactions will be needed.

It's not a paradox if you think about town interests vs. scum interests... I guess that's too hard, though...

Hi guys!

I've been doing some catching up and I think I'm good now, feel free to notify me of anything I've missed.

A what

Reach.

Trying to make something out of nothing.

I find it weird that you accuse other people of reaching, because it seems, that you've been doing the same, in particular in posts 122 and 167. Your trying to connect desp and gg is quite unfounded.

VOTE: BROseidon

Desp gives me scummy vibes too, but I can't exactly point out why.

Wow.

Um.

I'd be down to wagon the fuck out of this shit. In fact:

VOTE: TierShift

The lazy case on me+blatantly ignoring any sort of associative tells is bafflingly scummy.

[Hermy]

Overview of BRO's post:
'Loses tenper'/writes in caps to seem all towny.
Uses a sarcastic-y insult.
Throws down a not-all-that-great vote.

VOTE: BRO

I believe it is L-1 now. Although if anyone is planning to kick up a huge fuss then I'll unvote.

[XScorpion]

^ This is a very sudden switch from "des is scum for twisting BRO's words" to "BRO is obvscum". Is Des suddenly a townread now?

[TierShift]

I'm not ignoring you associative tell, I just think it's just not such good a try in connecting two players.

How is Grim connected to Desp?

-Amadeus

Duo-ISO them. They're avoiding each other.

Grim, why are you encouraging someone to continue playing badly as town? Even if you're right and Hermy is town setting herself up as an easy mislynch, that is just a distraction--

at best

.

I'm not encouraging her to play badly, I just think pressure makes her play more badly. I think Hermy should be easier to read if you drop the first impressions, the pressure resulting from that, and let her play the game first.

She doesn't react well to pressure as town. I've seen this first-hand in this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=32103, where the only thing that saved her from a certain-lynch was her PR-claim.

Lynchbaits are a distraction, yes, but they're also exactly not the kind of lynch you want on a Day 1. It's still a shot in the dark and doesn't give the information a lynch on a less convenient target would offer.

However I can say GG defending Hermy in a sense to keep pressure off her is eyeballing. My gut says it's partner defending a partner, but I feel like it's most likely scum defending possible town for some cred if Hermy were to flip in the future.

But Trine really IS doing this also, to an even greater degree than Grim. If Hermy is scum then Grim is probably more likely to be his partner--if Hermy is town, Trine is more likely to be scum looking for towncred.

I'm not seeing how they are avoiding each other, they at least have

some

interaction, not much, but neither do TV and desp, or who and desp, for that matter.

Also, for calling me lazy, that is one lazy OMGUS. Please tell me why my case is lazy.

Big FoS: BROseidon (mind you, I'm not at all stating intent to hammer)

Desp read will probably come tomorrow, perhaps tonight.

[BROseidon]

Overview of BRO's post:

'Loses tenper'/

writes in caps to seem all towny.
Uses a sarcastic-y insult.

*facepalm*

If you're scum, I'm yelling at you so much for trying to use my emotions against me.

It'll be glorious.

I'm a weak visitor you dumbfucks. Way to make your investigative PR claim on a shitty wagon.