Mini 1524: Olympian Gods Mafia - Game Over

[Desperado]

Desp, what was your point there? I think Mala was responding to my "I do think one of them is scum".

I thought she was responding to Grim's big post considering all of the possibilities.

[Whiskers]

ArcAngel9

, is there a mechanical reason you're not posting much?

[Grimgroove]

I'm going to start with replying to what Nachomamma said:

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Actor

What I thought you possibly were.

My mind is not right at the moment. ._.

This rabbit hole theory is crazy town and not really a scumMala move at all. It is also completely consistent with earlier posting:

It's a random thought. Hypothesizing about a completely random role being in the game based on an RVS-joke is not alignment-indicative, no matter how you see it.
What is objectively verifiable though, is that this theory, or this kind of thinking, does not remind me of a scumhunt-driven process. All Mala did was make an association between MattP's early intent to hammer and the Actor-role.
Why would Town care to think about what kind of town a person would be, let alone be so specific as to go delve into the role of something that seems rather rare to me.

I have a sight feeling on MattP, but I need to see more, but I can probably see him being town.

So unless you think that Mala-scum came up with the idea at the beginning of the game to suspect someone of being an Actor who didn't RVS vote from her first post, crumb it initially, then react immediately when they put a vote down, then she's probably town.

The random thought itself is easy enough to make it look townish, because it's null to begin with. Being consistently null doesn't make one town.
Malakittens may have come up with this idea in the beginning yes, scum needs certain grounds to start attacking someone. If Mala could consider the Actor-perspective as a reasonable basis to suspect MattP as town, she could just as well do it as scum. The fact she openly dropped the idea later doesn't make her more town either, it's just a realization that it's not the kind of argument that gets you very far. This realization is also null.

It's your tunneling in general that pisses me off regardless of my alignment in any past game we played. I guess you have a point you haven't tunneled me as town, but right now you're tunneling on town me.

This also struck me as a wonderfully town reaction. I don't think Mala-scum would say something that was false and easily proven to be false and then back down so easily like this.

This is really bullshit. Scum also makes factual mistakes, not always because they intend to do so. Of course they'll back down easily from it once someone finds out. If the wouldn't they'd be stringing themselves up. Giving Mala townpoints for backing down easily is nonsensical.
And I'm not so sure it was a factual mistake, because she's still trying to stretch it. "It's your tunneling in general that pisses me off" doesn't ring true to me.

It's part of her scum-meta to do this, but you're ignoring it and treating her like town because she's only focusing on any interactions that's coming at her instead of taking the bull by the horns and looking at other posts like I know town-Peng to do so.

Her push on penguin is also a pretty clear effort to sort her out, and it's a type of attack based on a scumread in a previous game that feels pretty fucking genuine. I always like pushes based on meta authority and this is no exception.

Also liked the reach out to mollie even after she found an easy reason to call mollie town

.

Explain the thing in bold to me? How are the two things you describe here mutually exclusive for scum?

And I saw no town-intentions in the push on penguin. At the start, this was based on TWO posts by penguin. 2. That's it. She then proceeded to give it extra weight by the meta-arguments you see there. I've seen town-peng too and I've rarely (I even think, never, but should check) seen her take the bull by the horns.

What I see is a clear effort to redirect our attention elsewhere. That's what scum does. Of course you can expect them to give reasons with them, but it's not because penguin may have given her some by her reactionary playstyle, that Malakittens' intentions were good from the start. I'm convinced they aren't.

The Nachomamma townread is intentionally based on loose sand. I don't think a genuine MAlakittens would give him townpoints for defensiveness. This is evident because of the word "but". Normally she wouldn't consider Nacho being defensive as town, "but"...

This was extremely nitpicky; seemed like the type of thing scum would attack but can't find town having conviction in.

I don't want to make this about me, but I am known to be quite nitpicky at times. And I find that a very strange comment coming from you, whose tagline is "Devil is in the details".

But this isn't nitpicky. Malakittens is townreading you, despite of things. Not because of things.

Nacho is being quite defensive, but I think he's probably town for it.

This is not the way a townread generally works and feels extremely forced.
Why does defensiveness give him townpoints?
Why didn't you say: Nacho is being defensive, so he's probably town?

These things do matter. That "but" is a lack-of-genuinity-tell.

That argument is bad. There's nothing remotely special about that kind of bitching. Even if he didn't do it before (as if you'd remember something like him NOT doing something like that before), it's not as crucial as you make it out to be. Maybe he learned a thing or two in the meanwhile, leading him to be suspicious of early townreads? MAybe it's the nature of your particular townreads that don't sit well with him? Maybe, maybe, maybe, so many possible explanations. Yet you focus on one and turn it into a crucial "argument".

He uses Mala noting that shos didn't dislike early townreads in the past as a point against Mala because "shos might have changed". Yes, shos might have changed but nothing at all points to that so Mala shouldn't have to make that assumption when she sees something different, and it's weird he expects her to make that assumption.

You have missed to point completely. My point was not to have Malakittens make that certain assumption of shos having changed. The point was getting Mala out of making another assumption that was way too particular (and convenient) given at we were looking at, because there's so many other assumptions abound regarding shos' stance towards those townreads that are at least equally reasonable.

I'm not sure if I'll have time for a full ISO. I'll try and see how far I get.

[Grimgroove]

Sorry, it will have to wait till Sunday, got a bus to catch and a report to finish. Priorities :p

I'll be

V/LA until Sunday evening 8th of December

.

Just getting that notice out there already, but I do intend to still post that case on Malakittens before I go, depending on how busy work is.

[Malakittens]

See, she reponds like this, refuses to be helpful, and then I have to accept she is town. I can't.

I am being helpful; you're the one refusing to believe what I'm saying isn't helpful.

[Wisdom]

How? I am asking you to read Whiskers and you tell me "it looks like his town game and one post like his scum game".

That's helpful? Comment on his content, comment on his exchange with mollie, comment on his exchanges with me. You have seen the guy in another game.

But no, you just rush a forced read and run away.

[Whiskers]

How? I am asking you to read Whiskers and you tell me "it looks like his town game and one post like his scum game".

That's helpful? Comment on his content, comment on his exchange with mollie, comment on his exchanges with me. You have seen the guy in another game.

You don't need to have "Seen this guy in other games" to do any of those things. Why ask Mala, specifically?

Actually, nevermind, I think I know the answer.

[Wisdom]

Because she's not commenting on anything, maybe?

[Wisdom]

She does nothing other than spam "let's lynch penguin"? She does not get engaged in the discussions? She claims that she's hunting for "penguin's buddies" (as if penguin flipped already) and for townreads but she's doing neither?

[shos]

yes it appears that in my great wall of doom I forgot to vote wisdom so I have a short while ago..

anyway, I have lots of posts to catch up with(weekends....mine are thu-sat, jewish, so I started lagging with posts earlier) so I'll try to do so in the next half an hour that I have free. prepare for MOAR catchup posts -__-

[shos]

note for myself: start from post 805.

[shos]

oh my fucking god wisdom posted 508 posts in that game, 180 more than the second to most, and he was dead before D3, and it's a MICRO holy momma spammer :X

should check out if his scumgames are so spamful too

[Wisdom]

They are

[Malakittens]

How? I am asking you to read Whiskers and you tell me "it looks like his town game and one post like his scum game".

That's helpful? Comment on his content, comment on his exchange with mollie, comment on his exchanges with me. You have seen the guy in another game.

But no, you just rush a forced read and run away.

Because I was going into work and didn't have the time to read through everything and give a proper read. I was giving you my read on him before the ISO read and a possible read on the old game.

[Wisdom]

Mala we are on page 39 and you still have done nothing. It's not just this time. I shouldn't have to ask you to provide content, you should be doing it on your own.

[Malakittens]

Mala we are on page 39 and you still have done nothing. It's not just this time. I shouldn't have to ask you to provide content, you should be doing it on your own.

Yeah okay. I have interacted with most of the active players besides {Whiskers/Nacho}. I am chasing my strongest scum read, but that means nothing to you, apparently. This is Penguin's scum game, but you're not seeing it. As I stated last time I chased her when she was scum she shrughed me off very similar to what's she's doing now. She's not posting, but coasting. This IS her scum game. When she was town and I did go after she reacted differently. She was engaging most of the players and this game she is not doing that at all. Plus I noticed in her town game she moves her votes around faster than she does in her scum games. All of which she's not doing.

I am leaving Mollie alone because I don't want a repeat of our NY game. I will only interact with her if necessary. If I see a post by her I don't like I'll calll her out about it.

MattP has been an early town read for me. I really thought he had a vote restriction on him, but as I said our playstyles mesh together when we are both the same alignment, but when one of us are at difference of alignment we are like dynamite. I really also like his posts and he feels town to me.

Desperado is a bit different because I misread him in NY and the rest of my games I was either scum with him or scum against him. He has no qualms about bussing or distancing himself from a partner so I need to take a wait and see approach when it comes to him. {I know that's not enough for some people, but I need more time with him.}

Wisdom I think however you're town.

ArcAngel9 is destroying my town read on her by not posting, but she's been known to do it as both alignments. So you can't really take much into reading her as either alignment when she lurks. I know she changed her playstyle in one newbie and micro game we played together and I really enjoyed it there. Part of me wishes she would go back to it.

Shos and Grim is kinda hard to give a pure read on them. Both of them are buddying each other hard; overlapping with each others reads. Gut says one is scum and one is town; wagon says Shos might be town, but doesn't tell me what Grim is. Facts say this is too obvious for scum partners. So either one is town and the other is scum or one is town and the other is town.

I want to hear more on Ooba and Mirari. Ooba I want to hear your thoughts on Mirari saying that he can read you well because you both live together.
Mirari I got a question for you; can you back up any credibility of being able to read Ooba in the past due to this.

As for Whiskers; I don't agree with him chasing Mollie at all. Whiskers is sorta doing what I'm doing to Penguin, but has actual posts from Mollie to back up reads. Mollie unlike Penguin

isn't

coasting at this point. Whisker's 328 in regards to the meta post feels fake because when Town-Whiskers just went "Whatever, whatever" to meta, but this it feels like he's overreacting and it's fake. I don't see the 1v1 with him and Mollie as a town v town. I don't see it as a s v s either. It's a t v s 1v1.
In other words; leaning scum on Whiskers. If someone wants to explain why they disagree with this read of mine, please go ahead because I'm not really seeing Whiskers as town based on this ISO.

[Wisdom]

This is Penguin's scum game, but you're not seeing it.

Are you fucking kidding me? Do you know who I am voting?

[Wisdom]

As I stated last time I chased her when she was scum she shrughed me off very similar to what's she's doing now. She's not posting, but coasting. This IS her scum game. When she was town and I did go after she reacted differently. She was engaging most of the players and this game she is not doing that at all. Plus I noticed in her town game she moves her votes around faster than she does in her scum games. All of which she's not doing.

While I don't disagree with the meta itself; why are you not waiting for her to actually post, but instead are encouraging people to speedlynch her? Why do you rule out that she is just inactive for her own reasons and jump to the conclusion she is inactive because she is scum?

[Wisdom]

If I see a post by her I don't like I'll calll her out about it.

So you

like

the posts where she is stating again and again that the Whiskers' "attack" on her is personal, while it obviously isn't?

[Wisdom]

I really thought he had a vote restriction on him

You thought that just because he didn't RVS? Why? Have you never seen people skipping RVS?

[Wisdom]

Shos and Grim is kinda hard to give a pure read on them. Both of them are buddying each other hard; overlapping with each others reads. Gut says one is scum and one is town; wagon says Shos might be town, but doesn't tell me what Grim is. Facts say this is too obvious for scum partners. So either one is town and the other is scum or one is town and the other is town.

Eew wtf did I just read

First of all, you are completely wrong. shos

has

been buddying Grim, Grim has changed his read on shos a thousand times AND called shos out on his excessive buddying.
Secondly, "wagon says shos might be town"? Wtf is this? How?

This post sounded like typical bullshit scum make up.

[ArcAngel9]

ArcAngel9

, is there a mechanical reason you're not posting much?

Everytime i come here to read. I am still behind 20, 25, now 30 plus. I am scared to catch up
But i will.. I need more time. Now stop stalking!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Wisdom]

Your Whiskers read is terrible too. He was pushing mollie because he didn't like her attitude. Just like he pushed me, just like he pushed Matt. It's his way of scumhunting. Nothing to do with how you are pushing penguin.

You're either scum, or you have paid such little attention to the game that you don't know what's what. Or both, which is what I'm going with.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: mala

[Wisdom]

Arc

please replace out if you're going to continue doing that. We need a 13th player.

[Malakittens]

I really thought he had a vote restriction on him

You thought that just because he didn't RVS? Why? Have you never seen people skipping RVS?

I have seen people skip RVS, but I don't believe I have seen him skip it along with I'm only willing to hammer Wisdom felt to me like he had a vote restriction which then was proven wrong when he voted later in the stage. I commented on this in the early game.

Why didn't you ask me about that earlier?

Shos and Grim is kinda hard to give a pure read on them. Both of them are buddying each other hard; overlapping with each others reads. Gut says one is scum and one is town; wagon says Shos might be town, but doesn't tell me what Grim is. Facts say this is too obvious for scum partners. So either one is town and the other is scum or one is town and the other is town.

Eew wtf did I just read

First of all, you are completely wrong. shos

has

been buddying Grim, Grim has changed his read on shos a thousand times AND called shos out on his excessive buddying.
Secondly, "wagon says shos might be town"? Wtf is this? How?

This post sounded like typical bullshit scum make up.

I'm aware Shos has been buddying Grim. It's overbuddying which makes me feel like it's too obvious to be scum partners. However I feel like we don't have a scum-scum, but we either have a town-town or a scum-town combination in our hands with them.

The wagon on Shos built a built quicker than I expected which leads to me that Shos could be town. It's not a definitive town read and probably not as reliable as I would love it to be. So either Shos' partners ARE busing him OR he's town. As I said the Grim seems to be defending Peng early, but so did Shos. So having a Peng flip would give me more information on others players.

It's not "typical" bullshit scum make up. This is how I form some of my reads early in Day 1; I have been known to do it with some of my hydras and sometimes my partners don't even understand. It's just how I think; how I play; how I hunt. If that makes me sound scum so be it, but that's my thoughts on the process of the Shos-wagon.