Mini 1517 - Game Over - The Sun Sets on Duskville

[Elyse]

Are you scum

This struck me as veeeery weird.

Context: Espeo made his "bah" post after being lynched. Elyse then asks if he is scum.

Elyse is experienced enough to know Espeo can't answer this question. Was she just trying to appear more town?

"Hey guys, I don't know for sure who is town and who is scum. I am one of you."

@Elyse: Where did that question come from?

In all the games I've played in, the lynchee was allowed to speak after he had been hammered. Give last reads, etc. I was going to bed soon and wanted to know if Espeo was town or scum but he couldn't answer.

So one of two things happened last night:

1) Nic did not use his ability and was shot
2) Nic used his ability on scum and died, mafia did not make a kill.

Is that correct?

3) power role blocked scums kill.

4) Nic used his ability on town, mafia shot him anyway.

I would assume that scenario before I thought scenario #1 happened.

Yeah this is what I was thinking. I don't understand why no one else thought of this. It's the first thing to come to my mind. The fact that Thor didn't point this out makes it even more suspect for him.

I am willing to lynch these people today: Thor

VOTE: Thor

Vote Count 2.01

Haschel Cedricson (2) - Albert B. Rampage, AbboTT
Thor665 (1) - Elyse
jmo16mla (1) - Thor665

Not Voting (7) - Amished, Haschel Cedricson, FakeGod, Lord Mhork, Micc, Sir Bastion, jmo16mla

With 11 alive it is 6 to lynch. Deadline is on December 18th at 9 p.m. PST.

Countdown:
(expired on 2013-12-18 21:00:00)

[Haschel Cedricson]

The only problem with lynching Thor today is that there appears to be a 50-50 chance that he is town, since he was one of two players that Nic might have targeted.

That being said, if Thor and ABR are scumbuddies, then they knew that Nic would definitely die and therefore may have chosen to no-kill in order to "partially confirm" one of them.

[Thor665]

The only problem with lynching Thor today is that there appears to be a 50-50 chance that he is town, since he was one of two players that Nic might have targeted.

Our chances of being scum or town are utterly unaffected by Nic's actions or lack of actions. It is literally no information at all at this stage other than that he was town.

@Elyse - do you think the Espeo wagon was clean?

[Elyse]

Nic said he might have hid behind me too, correct? I don't see scum no-killing because it wasn't explicit as to whom Nic was actually hiding behind.

I still think Thor scumslipped. He said that scum have daytalk matter-of-factly, and as town, if no one in the game brought it up before, I would have definitely checked the rules or asked in thread or something. Everyone would.
His jmo vote at the start of the day is random. I don't really remember him talking about jmo at all yesterday, but I could be mistaken.
I also find him not considering the "Nic protected town and was shot" scenario very scummy and unlike him. It's like he's letting the townies think about unlikely scenarios that could falsely implicate someone rather than think about what really happened.

P-edit:
No, I do not think it was completely clean. Rereading over the night, I feel strongest about my Bastion townread. HC and Micc are weaker townreads than before and ABR and AbboTT are ahead of them.

[Elyse]

UNVOTE:

So I'm a fucking moron. I had Elyse and Elleheathen mixed up non wonder her meta shifted so bad.

VOTE: ABR

Also this might be scum.

I'm not playing like I was in the large I played with Mhork before so it was justifiable for him to think I was different. (He only played one game with me so his findings are inconclusive, but I was different) I think saying he mixed up me and some random person is a BS reason to unvote me.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Nic said he might have hid behind me too, correct? I don't see scum no-killing because it wasn't explicit as to whom Nic was actually hiding behind.

VOTE: Elyse
Regardless of Espeo's alignment, don't count Thor out.
Alright my pool of players to protect is gonna be ABR Thor and Espeo. But if I'm not the NK I'll be surprised

My point is that Thor and ABR are scumbuddies, then they could no-kill with no risk because either way Nic would die.

Our chances of being scum or town are utterly unaffected by Nic's actions or lack of actions. It is literally no information at all at this stage other than that he was town.

No, they are greatly affected by Nic's actions or lack of actions. If Nic used his action; which I remind you all he was very eager to do, even going to the point to fakeclaim in order to have a better chance to use it; then either one of Thor/ABR is definitely town or both are scum and we had no actual nightkill.

[Thor665]

No, I do not think it was completely clean. Rereading over the night, I feel strongest about my Bastion townread. HC and Micc are weaker townreads than before and ABR and AbboTT are ahead of them.

And where's jmo?
Y'know, that guy I'm randomly voting for with no expressed reasoning?

[Thor665]

No, they are greatly affected by Nic's actions or lack of actions. If Nic used his action; which I remind you all he was very eager to do, even going to the point to fakeclaim in order to have a better chance to use it; then either one of Thor/ABR is definitely town or both are scum and we had no actual nightkill.

Um...

Sorry to say it old bean, but you are either scum thinking town are incredibly stupid, or you have no idea how his role works, or you are choosing to forget scum probably submitted a kill last night.

The only way Nic's action becomes really worthwhile to us is if we had a tracker *and* a watcher on him, or if we had a tracker *and* a voyuer or if we had a protective role claim and had probably at least one of the aforemetioned rolls on Nic as well.

That's what we would need to get info out of his night action at this stage.

[Elyse]

Leaning town

[Thor665]

Leaning town

Why?

Also, self meta time, how often do you choose to interact with/discuss your scumbuddies?

[Elyse]

His fake hammer reaction test seemed town.

You should know how I interact with scumbuddies.

Generally, I interact with them a good enough amount. If I am townreading a buddy then I probably won't interact with them that much but if I'm scumreading a buddy then I will.

[Thor665]

His fake hammer reaction test seemed town.

You mean the one that got no reactions and that he did nothing with?

Generally, I interact with them a good enough amount. If I am townreading a buddy then I probably won't interact with them that much but if I'm scumreading a buddy then I will.

Hurm.

[Elyse]

Yeah.

The no reactions part wasn't really his fault and I don't expect him to do anything with it if he didn't get any reactions from it.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Sorry to say it old bean, but you are either scum thinking town are incredibly stupid, or you have no idea how his role works, or you are choosing to forget scum probably submitted a kill last night.

The only way Nic's action becomes really worthwhile to us is if we had a tracker *and* a watcher on him, or if we had a tracker *and* a voyuer or if we had a protective role claim and had probably at least one of the aforemetioned rolls on Nic as well.

That's what we would need to get info out of his night action at this stage.

Wait, our list of possibilities:

1) Nic did not use his ability and was shot
2) Nic used his ability on scum and died, mafia did not make a kill.
3) power role blocked scums kill.
4) Nic used his ability on town, mafia shot him anyway.

Includes one more:

5) Nic used his ability on scum, scum didn't predict that and shot him anyway.

And there's no way to distinguish 5 from 2 or 4, so we don't have enough information to conclude anything about Thor and ABR.

Is that what I was missing?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Would you lynch HC please?

[Lord Mhork]

UNVOTE:

So I'm a fucking moron. I had Elyse and Elleheathen mixed up non wonder her meta shifted so bad.

VOTE: ABR

Also this might be scum.

I'm not playing like I was in the large I played with Mhork before so it was justifiable for him to think I was different. (He only played one game with me so his findings are inconclusive, but I was different) I think saying he mixed up me and some random person is a BS reason to unvote me.

Or I legitimately mixed you two up? Or is that not possible?

Why should I vote HC, ABR?

[Thor665]

Would you lynch HC please?

Would you lynch jmo?

I kinda support both, but at least think Haschal had a period he looked town during, I can't really say the same for jmo.

[Thor665]

The no reactions part wasn't really his fault and I don't expect him to do anything with it if he didn't get any reactions from it.

Do you think he had reason to expect reactions from it? Fake hammer is like, the happy meal of gambits. It's cheap, unfilling, and easy to get.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Why should I vote HC, ABR?

I've suspected him for a long time, but more recently, the way he dropped a vote on Espeonage at deadline and left was very shady.

[Albert B. Rampage]

That and his posts today have convinced me he is scum. The Thor and me being scum speculation, and lack of scumhunting, most notably.

[Thor665]

Yeah, but would scum be that roflbad about what the heck the doc could even learn?

I mean, I presume someone in the QT was like 'here's the situation with the Weak Doc' so I kinda want to feel that his stance comes across as befuddled town rather than a double gambit from scum, and I sorta lean that scum wouldn't not understand the situation.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Never underestimate the unpredictability of stupidity.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Why should I vote HC, ABR?

I've suspected him for a long time, but more recently, the way he dropped a vote on Espeonage at deadline and left was very shady.

I hate to play the "my-grandma-died-that-day" card, but I'm playing it. At the time Elyse and Espeonage both had four votes; I infinitely preferred an Espeonage lynch, and after I voted I knew I wouldn't be able to check in before deadline because we headed straight to Grandma's and as you can imagine it wasn't really the sort of situation where I could or would feel like following the game on an iPod or something.

It's an incredibly shitty situation, but I don't know how else I could have handled it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I dislike your entire play. Your whole thing yesterday was trying to lynch Espeonage or me, both who I know to be town.

[Elyse]

UNVOTE:

So I'm a fucking moron. I had Elyse and Elleheathen mixed up non wonder her meta shifted so bad.

VOTE: ABR

Also this might be scum.

I'm not playing like I was in the large I played with Mhork before so it was justifiable for him to think I was different. (He only played one game with me so his findings are inconclusive, but I was different) I think saying he mixed up me and some random person is a BS reason to unvote me.

Or I legitimately mixed you two up? Or is that not possible?

Why should I vote HC, ABR?

I don't see you getting me confused with someone else. You were excited when I signed up and said you would sheep me at the beginning. I'm not trying to toot my own horn but I think that you mixing me up with someone you were excited to play with is a lie.

The no reactions part wasn't really his fault and I don't expect him to do anything with it if he didn't get any reactions from it.

Do you think he had reason to expect reactions from it? Fake hammer is like, the happy meal of gambits. It's cheap, unfilling, and easy to get.

Well maybe Espeo (?) would have claimed scum or something after. Idk. I thought it was town-motivated.