Micro 269: See Nine Minus Minus (Game Over!)

[Stuffed Crust]

Ah, but I

don't

do RVS. I'm a much more reactionary player. I'd rather get into the game once it starts rolling instead of contribute a lot of meaningless nothing and votes that don't have weight. This, in itself, isn't scummy. I've done it as both alignments plenty of times.

As for my engagement with the various wagons, I don't really see where it is BS.

Also-also, thanks for ruining my gambit.
I was hoping someone would 'hammer' and we could catch them in the act.
Now it's pretty bust.

Unvote

It's fairly obvious from my own posts that I think BBM is town. A weirdo, but town.

[Does Bo Know]

Votecount 1.06

[L-3] BBmolla - Titus, Obscurity
[L-3] Stuffed Crust - Bulbazak, TierShift
[L-4] Obscurity - BBmolla
[L-4] TierShift - Venrob
[L-4] Bulbazak - FuDuzn

Not voting: CherryDrPepper, Stuffed Crust

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is Friday, December 27 at 4:00 PM CST ((expired on 2013-12-27 16:00:00)).

---

Because the site was down for a while last night, I've decided that everyone has a free 12 hours before any prod things can happen. So it's 36 hours after a post before requesting a prod, 84 hours before I prod if there wasn't a request, and 108 hours before I ask for replacements. Yeah that's a lot of hours, but 12 hours can make a difference. I'll let you know when this free 12 hours expires.

Remember, you guys can let me know if there's a problem with the VC any time.

CherryDrPepper is V/LA until the end of Monday.

[TierShift]

PoE and Statistics.
I've never been town in game where it has happened.
There's always at least one scum in the first two wagons, especially if they get pushed to L-2 or L-1.
It's too easy. In RVS, no one will be critical when you get a wagon rolling. All of the real focus gets put on the last few voters, which is hilarious.
Case in point, HipHopMafia.
I'd rather not see a repeat of those first few days.

-V

This. Do you really believe in it? I think it's weak. You present all of this as facts and general knowledge, supported with one game in which it is true. One game isn't proof and you should know that.

@BBmolla: What makes you think that of FuDuzn? Also, why would you mention that he's a town PR or scum like that? It feels like you're trying to present FuDuzn as a high-risk/high-reward wagon, but I don't see the motivation for doing so.

Now that I'm reading over it, I don't like the BBM wagon at all. There's probably one scum there, given the variety of input and activity.

As for the other scum pool I'm considering, one of Tier, BBM, and Bulba is very likely to be scum as well.

That said, I'm sticking with my other head as far as the voting goes.

Another instance of vote analysis I think is goofy. How does the argument 'there is a variety of input and activity' support the statement 'there is at least onr scum on the wagon'?

I can't see in any post that you think bb is town, especially not in this one.

Do you still think one of me, bb and bulba is scum? You seem to have dropped the suspicion of me and bb, how about bulba?

[TierShift]

One cheap gambit btw but there's no harm in trying

[Stuffed Crust]

One game is proof enough for me. Also, I've been in plenty of games where early wagons were a good indicator of where to find scum.

The different ways that the various players on BBM's wagon backed up and put forth their cases made me think that there's at least one scum in the pool that was on his wagon at the time. It had the sort of momentum that only comes when scum is piling on, if that makes sense. It felt awkward to me, and gut coupled with my experience with early-building wagons lead me to that conclusion.

I've since narrowed my second pool of scum to one of Tier (you) and Bulba. BBM's weird, but given that I suspect there is scum on his wagon (non-bussing, mind you), and how he's genuinely reacted to things, I'm fairly confident that he's not scum. This makes the second pool of consideration a bit weird for me, since both you and Bulba are currently voting for me. Your recent push on my feels pretty genuine (you're engaged in discourse, your reasons are fairly sound, etc), but that's just as easily a point in your regard if you are town. Bulba's had less furor than you on his push for me, which makes me much more suspicious of him than you.

So,

[Stuffed Crust]

Aw I hit post too early.

And man, I love cheap gambits~

-V

[TierShift]

So you now have 2 pools of scum, one with 4 people in them and 1 with 2. I'm in both pools. Does this mean you are giving the other players a free pass? If you aren't, you are basically just outing possible scum so why the pools?
And does this all mean that if there is just 1 person left in a certain scumpool he is confscum to you?

[Stuffed Crust]

come on then bulba, what do you want to talk about?

Why aren't you getting involved with this game? This isn't like you at all.

I am involved with the game. you're choosing not to see it.

were we not engaged with the game when you voted us in the first post?

Seeing as you disappeared soon after that, nope.

honestly bulba, please take a second here. you voted us in the

first

post. how can I disappear "soon after" that? I came in and said I don't do RVS and suddenly you're accusing me of not being involved in the game and not engaging you and not using my vote. I use my vote to find scum, not to randomly pick a name a vote in RVS. I have engaged you, but you're choosing to accuse me of not engaging you and hiding apparently? how are you not getting this??

you're acting really fucking strange.

How so?

see above.

[Stuffed Crust]

Stuffed crust you are freaking me out. First your disengaging, then your weird wagon analysis, then the interaction with bulba that doesn't feel right and now the easy vote.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: stuffed crust

what doesn't feel right about our interactions with bulba? and define disengaging.

[Stuffed Crust]

AND HOLY CRAP THERE ARE VOTE: AND UNVOTE: TAGS?

#MINDBLOWN

[TierShift]

what doesn't feel right about our interactions with bulba? and define disengaging.

Well you said you don't do rvs. Doesn't give you a right not to post at all during RVS.

Why don't you two get on the same page, explaining verything twice is annoying as fuck. Even varsoon said he found your interactions with bulba stupid. You are just both accusing each other of disengaging, you are not talking with each other, but talking to yourself. There is no real interaction.

[TierShift]

AND HOLY CRAP THERE ARE VOTE: AND UNVOTE: TAGS?

#MINDBLOWN

Ye discovered the uv one myself sooo proud.

[BBmolla]

BB, How do you know which players are town PR or scum with no flips. The added...or town PR makes me think you claimed scum and outed your buddy by mistake

No, I've led a crusade many a time against someone who is scummy due to their behavior, only to find out they're the town doctor/cop/etc.

Town PRs and Scum both play similarly in the early game, trying to avoid attention so their cover isn't blown.

[BBmolla]

I was hoping someone would 'hammer' and we could catch them in the act.
Now it's pretty bust.

Serious question, do you think anyone here is honestly stupid enough to hammer me without a claim?

[BBmolla]

Like, my comment about the town PR really would have been fine if you all hadn't made it a big deal, it's kind of an issue now because he's reacted to it, so good job with that.

Stuffed Crust looks fine enough. Someone vote Obscumity so he'll get in here and do stuff, he's quite obviously trying to lurk out of the spotlight and I'm not letting that shit fly, fuck no.

[Bulbazak]

Ah, but I

don't

do RVS. I'm a much more reactionary player. I'd rather get into the game once it starts rolling instead of contribute a lot of meaningless nothing and votes that don't have weight. This, in itself, isn't scummy. I've done it as both alignments plenty of times.

Not doing RVS is different than disappearing and not interacting with anybody in the early game. That's a cop out.

Also-also, thanks for ruining my gambit.
I was hoping someone would 'hammer' and we could catch them in the act.
Now it's pretty bust.

Seriously?! Do you really think anybody would hammer after you'd announced in big bold letters that he was at L-1 and nobody should hammer? There's no way that's a reaction test, as no one in their right mind would do so. You just got your hand caught in the cookie jar and just wrote it away as "lol, reaction test". Not to mention that Molla and I are both big about PLing those who quickhammer without giving intent and time for a claim/final reads.

Bulba's had less furor than you on his push for me, which makes me much more suspicious of him than you.

I've been out of it the past few days. Besides, you were staying in the shadows until recently, and my play involves questioning my scumreads.

I am involved with the game. you're choosing not to see it.

You disappeared for the longest time, only to reappear quite recently and act like you've been here the entire time, which is a lie.

honestly bulba, please take a second here. you voted us in the

first

post. how can I disappear "soon after" that? I came in and said I don't do RVS and suddenly you're accusing me of not being involved in the game and not engaging you and not using my vote. I use my vote to find scum, not to randomly pick a name a vote in RVS. I have engaged you, but you're choosing to accuse me of not engaging you and hiding apparently? how are you not getting this??

You posted that you don't do RVS, and then you disappeared. You didn't pop back up until recently, at which point you said you've been engaged in the game the entire time, which is bull crap. Heck, I interacted with Fu more than you, and he's nowhere to be found atm. And now you pop in and are trying to sell the lie that you are one of the most active players in this game and that I am strange for calling you out on your crap. Don't even start with me. If you want to actually engage, then let's do so, but if you don't, don't try to paint me as someone who is out of touch with the game, because you will lose real fast.

[Venrob]

The way this game is going, plus real life things, this is reading as another game where i will fuck the town over if i stay. That is almost every one of my games, given; everyone misreads me. Either way,

UNVOTE:

@MOD: I am requesting replacement.

[Does Bo Know]

@MOD: I am requesting replacement.

Understood. I have posted in the Replacement Queue for you.

[Stuffed Crust]

So you now have 2 pools of scum, one with 4 people in them and 1 with 2. I'm in both pools. Does this mean you are giving the other players a free pass? If you aren't, you are basically just outing possible scum so why the pools?
And does this all mean that if there is just 1 person left in a certain scumpool he is confscum to you?

Both pools are a selection of players that I see as committing to something scummy:
Pool 1 (The BBM-scum-motivated-wagon): CherryDRP, Titus, Obscurity.
Pool 2 (Awkward play independent of pool 1): Tiershift, BBM, Bulba.

Interaction with BBM has made me a lot more confident in townreading him, so he's practically out of suspicion, although I'll be a lot more critical of him if both Tier and Bulba flip town, obviously. If there's ever a single player in one of these pools while the others have been confirmed town, then it's a very likely bet that that player is scum.

Other players don't get a free pass--the pools represent how I see players interacting and who is likely to be scum out of the suspect agents in different interactions. There could be no scum in either of these pools (unlikely), but these represent my highest level of FoS.

I was hoping someone would 'hammer' and we could catch them in the act.
Now it's pretty bust.

Serious question, do you think anyone here is honestly stupid enough to hammer me without a claim?

Yes. It's early enough in the game that someone would do it.
Criticize all you want, but of course the mousetrap is going to look simple when you're not just chasing the cheese.

-V

[Titus]

I really don't get how so many people are townreading Molla. I am aware of my own tendancy to tunnel though so I am going to take some time and reread. Claiming a player is town for being stupid violates the first rule of mafia to me.

VOTE: Bulbazak

Post 134 is bad and I want answers for that.

[Bulbazak]

Post 134 is bad and I want answers for that.

What exactly is bad? I can't respond if I don't know what you're talking about.

[Titus]

come on then bulba, what do you want to talk about?

Why aren't you getting involved with this game? This isn't like you at all.

were we not engaged with the game when you voted us in the first post?

Seeing as you disappeared soon after that, nope.

you're acting really fucking strange.

How so?

Or town PR, one of those.

Why would you even mention this?

We are less than 200 posts in, your vote was an rvs and didn't require responding to, your statement about not getting into the game is vague. This is a strawman scumread.

[Bulbazak]

your vote was an rvs and didn't require responding to

My vote's been serious for awhile now.

your statement about not getting into the game is vague.

How so? I've been exceedingly clear about SC's actions this game. He started the game stating he doesn't do RVS, disappeared, and then came back stating he had been engaging the entire time, which is a lie. What don't you understand?

This is a strawman scumread.

What the crap is a strawman scumread?

[Titus]

A strawman scumread is a scumread that has no substance. Much like a strawman argument but the argument is a scumread.

What do you mean that SC isn't engaging. I see questions and responses. Thus your engage is a strawman.

[Bulbazak]

A strawman scumread is a scumread that has no substance. Much like a strawman argument but the argument is a scumread.

Me thinks you don't know what a strawman is.

What do you mean that SC isn't engaging. I see questions and responses. Thus your engage is a strawman.

Do you now? I see words but no substance.