You're thinking about it wrong.In post 574, TierShift wrote:Assuming that we win, that is. My play would give us room for an extra mislynch later on.
GG is town. His latest posts made me put him into the town bin.In post 528, XScorpion wrote:Do you think GG is scum?
I like how you dodged the question at the end of my post.
When I flip town andIn post 528, XScorpion wrote:Scum mentality.Oh, because BRO told us the optimal play, then sure, we should follow him? Sorry, I make my own decisions.
As Trine said, it's not about the hammer. It's about how Tier "unvoted" and revoted. Read that segment again. To me it felt as if Tier believed Wake's claim, but then saw a platform for a Who lynch after Trine and myself posted and voted and so he revoted. Even if that wasn't a hammer vote, it's still a dodgy vote on the wagon.In post 557, Grimgroove wrote:Eek and Trine were both giving TierShift heat for the hammer on Who. But as I see it, they were both in a position to unvote Who after his claim, and thus were in no position to paint that hammer off as scummy in the way they did it, without being terrible hypocrites.
It's not about what you discussed, not discrediting that. Not at all. It's what you are not discussing. Why did you avoid all other topics?In post 570, Turkish Van wrote:Because it was something that other people weren't already discussing and I wanted to know more about his thought process as far as why he thought Who had misplayed his role badly enough to justify the lynch.
I get a strong newb vibe from him. There was an interaction with desp I liked (which is independent of desp's alignment). I liked his "I'm a newb" post way back. His push on me, while being weak (I don't remember what it was about), felt really town like. Of course you would see this as an attempt at defusing a case against me, but I'm not going to keep static reads just because I might be perceived as chainsaw defending or trying to defuse a scumread.In post 570, Turkish Van wrote:Looking at TierShift's posts on page 20, that's where he starts pushing you as scum. As such, this looks a lot like you backing off someone who pushes back at you in a way that has a good chance of defusing their suspicion. What feels so honest, and what makes you believe the claim beyond it fitting flavor?
Nice phrasing there at the end. But I wanted to make my own decision, not my own mistakes. But keep on twisting.In post 570, Turkish Van wrote:I don't like the way MME is defending his not following a logical plan from BRO when it was presented to him under the guise of wanting to make his own mistakes.
Perfectly put.Trine wrote:That brings me to Scorp. He's doing exactly that, focusing exclusively on the Who wagon and tunneling hard in the hopes that town doesn't consider any other avenues. It's during this push that he's made some mistakes, slipping away from that town veneer that he's built up. The contradictory stances are a big one. Plus, Eek is right, he is flailing and mindlessly pushing in the way where he's trying to make everything from his targets look scummy without actually considering intent. This shows that he's more interested in scoring a lynch than finding scum. However, the biggest point against him is his blatant buddying of Bro. He's taken every opportunity he can to stroke Bro's ego and get on his good side. Which is funny, since Scorp wasn't paying attention to anything that Bro was saying when he was pushing the Who wagon. Yet all of a sudden he's regurgitating Bro's points of view and using them to try to lynch others on the Who wagon?
XScorp scum would fit with "both scum are on this wagon," and the point about him buddying me makes sense.In post 466, Alduskkel wrote:Who (5) - Trine, Grimgroove, XScorpion, My Milked Eek, TierShift
I might have been a bit too harsh in my previous post, apologies if I offended you. It's just that you really got under my skin with those posts.In post 579, BROseidon wrote:XScorp scum would fit with "both scum are on this wagon," and the point about him buddying me makes sense.In post 466, Alduskkel wrote:Who (5) - Trine, Grimgroove, XScorpion, My Milked Eek, TierShift
@Eek: The point I'm making is that there wasn't town motivation towards the tail-end of the Who push. I've stated why the Who lynch was an explicit misplay. There are too many people who made the mistake for everyone to have been scum, but the push still had to have had 2 scum in it. I don't think that that many townies would make an explicitly wrong play.
Trine also has played up internal hydra dissonance multiple times at this point to justify bad pushes.
Yeah, I'm visiting Trine tonight.
That's pretty much the start of my suspicion of Scorpion. His reaction to the lynch during his absence is really wrong, not whether he was here during or not. No one contested his absence. It's about his reaction.In post 580, BROseidon wrote:Wait wtf XScorp didn't post b/w the claim and the hammer.
Neither did GG.
Which leads me back to Trine/Eek/Tier.
Actually, Bro quoted my list back at me.In post 572, Trine wrote:This is lazy, generic and not what I'd expect of you. Heck, you just quoted Bro's list right back at him.
No, the term is "I think they are both scum."In post 557, Grimgroove wrote:Desperado's 479 says exactly that. The only problem with Desperado? He himself put TierShift at L-1 just before it. Why the hell would you put someone who's being attacked by someone you genuinely have a good argument against at L-1? The term for this is: setting up lynches.
In post 477, TierShift wrote:I just can't get around that there has to be scum involved with voting who after the claim. I just made a reference list for town. In their book, I could very well be scum.
Something is off with your post. I hope I'll be around to find out what and address it later.
In post 480, TierShift wrote:L-1 guys...you wanna end it already?
I agree with desp,thatis what's off with eek's posting.
Lynch Eek next please
UNVOTE:
VOTE: eek
In post 503, TierShift wrote:I don't see the need for an L-1 first page of the new day, but I don't mind that much as long as you are not lettinganyoneaway with quickhammering.
I really really don't understand why you'd all wanna get the day over with so quickly.
Desp, you are saying that me and Eek are scum, do you think we could be scum together? Would you really think I'd bus my partner when the obvious lynch candidate is me, not him?
A fast hammer would really take everyone's chances away to interact with Eek today.
P-edit:
What can I say? If I were scum, I'd definitely have hammered you too, there's no denying that. I'm also pretty sure I would have lurked a tad more before doing anything.
In post 511, TierShift wrote:Eek teach me the ability to get on someone's town side who has a scumread on you....everything is just right in that post. The xcorp vote is fucking valid and your explanation of everything is as well.
You seemed to be implying that my selection of you me and Trine was wrong, but I guess you weren't. I still find it hard to believe that there wasn't any scum involved in the revoting phase, but I'm gonna drop that point because you and Trine are town as fuck and I'm not gonna argue in favor of me being scum.
UNVOTE: eek btw
I don't like desp's posting but his first post after who's claim makes it hardly possible that he is scum. I don't like that he didn't try to get involved with you before when he had a scumread on you but well I can't get around seeing him as town.
As who is confirmed now and desp, trine and eek are town for me and TV is mostly null I'm gonna look further into GG, XScorp and BRO.
GG could be scum because of his convenience disappearance lately, xscorp for eek's reasons and reasons in 412
BRo for the balance issues his role brings.
In post 458, My Milked Eek wrote:In post 429, Alduskkel wrote:Vote Count 1.17
Who (4) - Trine, Turkish Van, Grimgroove, XScorpion
TierShift (2) - Desperado, BROseidon
My Milked Eek (2) - Who, TierShift
Not Voting (1) - My Milked Eek
9 alive, 5 to lynch.
Deadline is on December 14th, 12 p.m. PST.
Countdown:
(expired on 2013-12-14 12:00:00)In post 436, TierShift wrote:UNVOTE: Who
That is one SICK role. I suppose you can also use it when NK'd?
I just can't believe that we're basically playing the game with 2 conftowns...
I'd be totally fine with getting lynched now.
If you refuse to rewind time tomorrow after lynching a townie+a townie getting nightkilled you should be lynched whatever happens.
I realize that if I don't get cleared by rewinding time I will probably be lynched the next day. Still, I'm gonna push for an Eek lynch, lynching possible scum is still better than lynching town.
VOTE: Eek
The previous player in your spot didn't do anythingnotscummy and you have just been lurking. Wanna share your thoughts about the game?
In post 476, My Milked Eek wrote:Balance-wise, most likely. But I've been reading him as town so far, so I can't get my head around this flip.In post 470, Trine wrote:Does this make bro scum, or am I missing something?
I don't like Tier's last three-four posts. On what basis do you get to scum in [Eek | Trine | Tier]? Why you'd include yourself is beyond me. Are you not sure about your alignment?
In other words: I want to know why Trine or myself are scum according to you. I'm not catching any grounds for that coming from you.
Yeah, sure. Except that that wasn't my question. Why are you unvoting someone who you aren't voting? And the best part of your voting pattern yesterday (or is it today? The question is not where are we, it's when are we), the best part is you hammered Who. So to recap:In post 460, TierShift wrote:@Eek: in my mind, voting for a player and wanting to hammer said player feel similar.
Intent to hammer -> claim -> unvote who -> hammer
I can understand it up until "unvoting who", but then you drop the hammer. What is it, are you believing the claim or aren't you?
The only logical explanation I can draw from this is that you believed his claim, but that you are scum willing to erase this role from the town's power role pool, before it could cause a lot of damage by exposing a lot of confirmed towns.
Vote: Tiershift
In post 481, My Milked Eek wrote:The difference is that I didn't believe his claim at all, Tier did at one point. He unvoted who (he wasn't voting him, but w/e), so I'm pretty sure he believed the claim. As soon as Trine and I make clear that the role is bullshit (and I put him back at L-1), Tier's back to wanting to hammer Who. He saw there was a platform for a Who lynch and he went back.
This is the most obvious mutual bus + distance I have ever seen, in both directions.In post 508, My Milked Eek wrote:I believe the claim. Flavor fits and his page 20 posting feels really honest and I got a town vibe from that.Unvote
Just a few thoughts about and questions to Tier:
His thoughts on how to play Who's role are the same as mine. As said, I would have played that role a lot more reckless than Who has.
You're either misreading that post or you're twisting it horribly. Let me quote the post you're talking about:Tier wrote:Eek is implying that me saying that scum is within the revoting-who-stage (me, eek and trine) is ungrounded. Other than the fact that it is super-reasonable to assume there is at least one scum behind this, he is not addressing it in the way a townie would. A townie would say: 'yes, the person out of those three to be scum is yourself', or something along those lines. Instead, he is trying to invalidate my assumption because he knows that I will flip town and he would be the subsequent lynch target if we were to follow the assumption.
"In other words: I want to know why Trine or myself are scum according to you [tier]. I'm not catching any grounds for that coming from you."
Tell me; why would posting "you're the scum out of those three" be any better than asking you why either Trine or myself would be scum according to you?
I'm not in any way invalidating the selection of three players you've made, it's a valid selection you can make from looking at the wagon. I'm just curious what your thoughts are on both of us. I don't remember you posting anything like that.
I've rephrased it as simply as I could and if you still don't get it, then I'm going to assume you're twisting my words intentionally. But right now, given your claim, I feel you're town trying to find any "evidence", no matter how flimsy or how much twisting words it takes, of me being scum.
Could you give me your read on desperado as well? You don't need to go into detail, a simple town-null-scum with a one liner would suffice. Just want to know where you stand on him.
1) Tell me how you got to GG being town based on his absence during the hammer. I'd love to hear the reasoning behind that.In post 482, XScorpion wrote:...you're kidding me right? Who claims and gets lynched before I even get to come back to respond? Obviously someone wanted a lynch before I could unvote, and I wonder who
Trine, what the hell?
I see GG is in the same boat as me, so he's probably town too.
BRO I don't know why you are so upset, obviously the people who didn't listen to you are scum so what's the problem?
Intent to hammer Tier.We have lots of time before the day is over but Tier is scum so I don't think it matters.
2) Why did you only address Trine? Where is my name?
3) I'll requote because it's so goddamn important for the next few posts:
"We have lots of time before the day is over but Tier is scum so I don't think it matters"
That being quoted, let's move on to:
Huh?In post 500, XScorpion wrote:I don't understand your role whatsoever or your logic behind why you didn't listen to BRO.In post 491, TierShift wrote:Guys we should indeed be not so quick to end this. Xscorp has stated intent to hammer so if anyone on my wagon isn't 100% sure of me being scum please unvote.
Scorp, is there anything you want to know apart from the claim before the hammer?
Role: what kind of a 'random QT message' do you get?
Listening: Why didn't you?
VOTE: Tiershift L-1, this is not a hammer because Who unvoted.
But, then why did you say...I bolded for emphasis.In post 504, XScorpion wrote:I believe you. That's why I'm voting youIn post 501, TierShift wrote:As for why I didn't listen: if I hadn't hammered and the wagon would have died down, I'm certain I would get lynched.
P-edit: No one is quickhammering unless they want to die a quick death tomorrow.
No, you wouldn't have lurked a bit more, because if you did then GG and I would have chances to unvote and prevent this stupidity.
Why did you put him at L-1 if you don't want him to be lynched? Don't give me that quickhammer crap. Putting someone at L-1 is setting up a lynch. You don't put down the L-1 vote unless you want that person to be lynched. This post is nothing more than making empty threats and trying to posture. I'd even go as far as saying that if Tier flips town, XS is scum. I don't like the buddying to GG either. If XScorpion flips scum, GG is town.This is XScorpion blatantly distancing himself from a town mislynch while pushing it.It makes no sense to want to lynch someone over a possible quickhammer if you put down the L-1.
Also, you mentioned something really peculiar in that quote I just had to requote. In fact let me requote it again. It's just that important:
"We have lots of time before the day is over but Tier is scum so I don't think it matters"
Why would you be against a quickhammer of scum? Why would "anyone die" for lynching a scum? If you're going to say "because not everyone has replied to this claim etc." then you should stop right there. Let me recap the previous paragraphs: Without an L-1 vote there would be no quickhammer. Stop posturing.
Vote: XScorpion
Of all the things, this is what you choose to reply to?In post 498, Turkish Van wrote:TierShift, why would Who necessarily want to have played in a way that draws the NK? What if he did that and we'd lynched scum? Then his getting NK's resurrects scum as well. Being policy lynched on a non-D1 day is nominally better, but on the whole of it, playing as town as possible and waiting for an opportune day to rewind is ideal.
--PA
You're right, my mistake. You're just scum together for pushing the Who wagon through because you were SO SURE! but then backing off Tier based on a weak as fuck claim, then.In post 587, My Milked Eek wrote:Oh hey desp.
Could you explain how I can read the future when I backed off of Tier? I unvoted and backed off in 508. So this quote:
"Look at how quickly Eek and Tier backed off each other when I said I saw Eek-town, even briefly."
Does not apply if you called me Eektown in 509. Oops! Try to misrep some other context please.
Yes I know that. But you start that post by saying...In post 588, TierShift wrote:I unvoted based on 508. Eek was the first to notice that perhaps I wasn't scum, while he could have easily pushed through a mislynch on me. That is my main argument for see Eek as town and I know it isn't worth anything to you.
Which reads to me like you saw me reading Eek as town based on that post and saw an opening to do so yourself.Eek teach me the ability to get on someone's town side who has a scumread on you....everything is just right in that post. The xcorp vote is fucking valid and your explanation of everything is as well.
Because I'm certain I can verify Bro's claim, dumbass. Read between the lines.Cuz you lynched Who because his role didn't make sense AND because it didn't fit with Bro's role. Their incompatibility was central to your case on why Who was lying.
But now that he's town, Bro is just town because he's town, balance be damned? Even though BALANCE! was the only reason Who got lynched to begin with?
Puh-leeze.
In post 447, Who wrote:If scum don't kill we could get a conftown someone else and probtown me, or I could save my role for when they do kill, also we get a conftown from BRO. Also, the wording of my role PM implies the possibility for more than one death per night.In post 445, Turkish Van wrote:Trine/Amadeus has a point about scum not killing Who if it resulted in back-to-back dead townies. Which means that getting a conf-town Who today is likely a better deal than what we'd get down the line, even if he would find it boring to play.
The role also implies no way for more than one death per night, as that could bring back three players and would totally strain . And with BRO's more believable weak visitor claim, it's less feasible.
I want to get Mala's thoughts before proceeding.
Also, TierShift being fine with being lynched after Who's claim looks bad too. Again, most likely not both scum, but scum-TS could be trying to minimize the damage of his faction killing Who if he believes the claim. Less feasible given the likely size of a scum faction in a Micro, but Who's role, if town, could imply a > 2p Mafia group as well.
--PA
About TS, I would say that his willingness to be lynched looks Towny but a bit too quick to trust (From his perspective I might be scum postponing my lynch by a day) and could be a traitor. The possibility of one traitor+2scum is present given my role, and the traitor, if they exist, would want to sacrfice themselves to prevent two conftowns.
In post 459, Who wrote:Has anyone read any of Alduskkel's previous games? Here are the roles from a marathon I replaced into (I replaced Majiffy):
Alduskkel's Arboreal UPick - Game Over!
He is not afraid of including strange and seemingly really-powerful roles in his games, and that game had 3 scum out of 10 people, this one easily could.Alduskkel wrote:Spoiler: Roles
These three.In post 463, Who wrote:I can, but then it turns what could have been a 2-shot cop into an IC, and does not give our investigative PR(s) a chance to investigate. What is wrong with just lynching me tomorrow if I'm lying?In post 462, Trine wrote:After all, who can always rejoin us if he's telling the truth, no?
Also, Alduskkel said in the queue "I have modded 4 marathon UPicks before, if you want to get an idea of what sort of roles I come up with. (1) (2) (3) (4) The first one was a little half-assed, but the other three I think turned out nicely and are more representative anyway." so I think the marathons are a fair judge. Also, after having read those, it has occurred to me that the princess might be looking for me, I know I'm looking for her.
Yes it was. There were perfectly legitimate reasons to leave Who alive based on balance and you and Tier and Trine argued against them.In post 595, My Milked Eek wrote:And balance wasn't the only reason who got lynched. You're again not reading the thread.
