Micro 267 - Indie Game: The UPick - Game Over!

[My Milked Eek]

"

If you were certain you could verify Bro's claim, then why did we need to lynch Who?

"


I still am. And because I thought he was scum and I didn't believe his claim (balance issues right there).

Vote Count 1.05b

XScorpion (3) - My Milked Eek, TierShift, Trine
My Milked Eek (2) - BROseidon, Turkish Van
TierShift (2) - Desperado, XScorpion
Trine (1) - Grimgroove

Not Voting (1) - Who

9 alive, 5 to lynch.

Deadline is on December 28th, 7 p.m. PST.

Countdown:
(expired on 2013-12-28 19:00:00)

[Desperado]

Who is not town!

Let me spell it out for you guys: That ability is way too powerful and game breaking for a game of this size, especially since

roles were determined before alignment

and this role is predicated on the user being town. Let's not forget that there are better ways to create a role centered around Who's character. For instance, and this one is just off the top of my head, resetting the day phase, deadline and all. No alignments are revealed, it's not game breaking, and it's perfect as either alignment. Furthermore, and I can't stress this enough,

there is no way town would claim this role at this point, especially with the way he claims the time travel mechanic works

. Who as town would be better off letting himself get lynched, having his role and alignment revealed, claiming after the reset happens, and then basking in the conf. town glory. And if you think that scum would kill him if he had that role, think again. Would scum really kill someone who could create 2 conf. town upon death? No freaking way! It's too convenient. It's too overpowered. And most of all,

there is absolutely no reason to claim, especially to escape a lynch

. This is a survival tactic, plain and simple. And there's only one alignment that wants to survive that much.

-Amadeus

Yo guys, while I'm typing up my post, I got some funny scenarios for everyone:

9 players.
1 claims to be a time manipulator role.
1 claims a weak visitor (which dies when he targets scum?)

======

D1 we lynch town.
N1 town is killed.
N1 visitor visits town.
D2 reset happens.

=> 9 players, 2 confirmed townies. 3 probtowns (time master, visitor, visited).

Would you really, really consider any game that could have 5 conf/probtowns out of 9 players on, basically, D1 balanced?


Imagine even a better scenario:
D1 town lynch
N1 town nk
N1 visitor visits scum and dies
D2 reset

=> 9 players. 3 conftown (lynchee, nk, visitor). 1 probtown (time master). 1 confscum (visited).

So we're back to D1 with a confirmed scum? One nightkill later and we're at 7 players, of which 3 are conf/probtown.


Tell me again why you believe one claim but not the other. Especially why you believe Who's claim. It makes no sense at all. One of [Who | Bro] is scum. No doubt about that.

These are the two posts that got Who lynched, and both are solely concerned with how his role doesn't work balancewise.

Your turn.

[Desperado]

"

If you were certain you could verify Bro's claim, then why did we need to lynch Who?

"


I still am. And because I thought he was scum and I didn't believe his claim (balance issues right there).

That isn't an answer. If you are still certain that you could prove whether Bro is scum or not (and thus go a long way towards clearing up Who's alignment), then why did we need to lynch Who?

[My Milked Eek]

I don't see anything in those three Who posts that indicate anything about his alignment. Didn't back then and I don't right now. If you do, please be my guest.


"

That isn't an answer. If you are still certain that you could prove whether Bro is scum or not (and thus go a long way towards clearing up Who's alignment), then why did we need to lynch Who?

"

Because I came to the realization that I could verify Bro after making those posts. As indicated by my town/scum read list in 453. Which followed that balance posts you quoted.

[Desperado]

Eek, you said:

Tell me again why you believe one claim but not the other. Especially why you believe Who's claim. It makes no sense at all. One of [Who | Bro] is scum. No doubt about that.

before Who flipped.

You are now claiming that you can verify Bro's role, and that you knew that at the time.

So why were you unwilling to let Who live through the night, if you knew you would know his alignment the following day via your Bro result?

PEdit: How convenient.

[Desperado]

You also changed your answer from just now when you said "I still am" to me asking "if you were certain" but whatever.

[My Milked Eek]

You also changed your answer from just now when you said "I still am" to me asking "if you were certain" but whatever.

?

[Desperado]

"

If you were certain you could verify Bro's claim, then why did we need to lynch Who?

"


I still am. And because I thought he was scum and I didn't believe his claim (balance issues right there).

[My Milked Eek]

Eek, you said:

Tell me again why you believe one claim but not the other. Especially why you believe Who's claim. It makes no sense at all. One of [Who | Bro] is scum. No doubt about that.

before Who flipped.

You are now claiming that you can verify Bro's role, and that you knew that at the time.

So why were you unwilling to let Who live through the night, if you knew you would know his alignment the following day via your Bro result?

PEdit: How convenient.

I realized it after making that post. Call it convenient or whatever, but the facts remain the same. I realized I could verify it and I dropped broscum immediately.

[My Milked Eek]

"

If you were certain you could verify Bro's claim, then why did we need to lynch Who?

"


I still am. And because I thought he was scum and I didn't believe his claim (balance issues right there).

I meant

I'm still am [certain I can verify Bro]. And because I thought [who] was scum and I didn't believe [who]'s claim.

[Desperado]

I don't see anything in those three Who posts that indicate anything about his alignment. Didn't back then and I don't right now. If you do, please be my guest.

K, this is the part where you show how Tier's behavior has indicated alignment. All you've said is that his push against you felt town.

[My Milked Eek]

I did not only say that. You're again leaving out the majority of my posts. But I'll humor you.


There was his newbclaim early on. This is relevant to the interaction I saw and mentioned a few times. I'll elaborate on the interaction I saw. You saw something off with my post and Tier agreed with that. Later on (not relevant to his post-claim and my pre-unvote post time frame but linking it to this either way) he does the same thing when you read me as town. I'm seeing a newbtown player following a player he believed to be a strong player and a town player. This is why I asked Tier what he thought of you in a one-liner, so I could confirm this image. I'm seeing a desperate newbtown close to lynch trying to mimick what he sees in a stronger player.

Of course, newbies can also be scum, but his post-claim posting is him trying to scumhunt, in contrast to Who. The guy [tier] is at L-1 and this close to being lynched and he starts picking on my posts. And, while weak, it actually feels genuine.

His reasoning of unvoting and revoting lines up with the above. He saw a few players reasoning against Who, thought it was reasonable and went with it.


Tier has got newbtown written all over him.

[Trine]

The point I'm making is that there wasn't town motivation towards the tail-end of the Who push.

In the case of Trine, our motivation is necessarily town. Your disagreeing with our thought processes doesn't change that.

~ Zoya

[XScorpion]

Plus, Eek is right, he is flailing and mindlessly pushing in the way where he's trying to make everything from his targets look scummy without actually considering intent. This shows that he's more interested in scoring a lynch than finding scum. However, the biggest point against him is his blatant buddying of Bro. He's taken every Opportunity he can to stroke Bro's ego and get on his good side. Which is funny, since Scorp wasn't paying attention to anything that Bro was saying when he was pushing the Who wagon. Yet all of a sudden he's regurgitating Bro's points of view and using them to try to lynch others on the Who wagon?

1) Lynching the powerful town PR seems like pretty scummy intent, considering the proposed day 2 PL alternative.
2) I don't need to buddy anyone; it's a simple matter of 'this is the best move so let's do it', and the people who didn't do it are all voting me. Coincidence? I don't think so.
3)

Wait wtf XScorp didn't post b/w the claim and the hammer.

I'm a big fan of making the best decision, no matter who proposed it to begin with (which is why Eek is scum). Good try though.

I'm agreeing with gg on the claiming flavor, I'm pretty sure alduskkel can make up at least 5 roles for each flavor.

Scum

?

I don't mind flavor claiming day 2, but claiming day 1 only helps scum to figure out who might have certain power roles (e.g. I wonder what role Robocop would have hurr durr).

There is no pro-town benefit to a flavor claim day 1. This is a scum plan.

Scorp, address the points made against you and please use a better defence than: "trine, eek and tier are all scum".

What points? Idunno, it seems like a little too suspicious that everyone who got Who mislynched is now on my wagon, so it's hard to not use that defense.

[TierShift]

I'm agreeing with gg on the claiming flavor, I'm pretty sure alduskkel can make up at least 5 roles for each flavor.

Scum

?

I don't mind flavor claiming day 2, but claiming day 1 only helps scum to figure out who might have certain power roles (e.g. I wonder what role Robocop would have hurr durr).

There is no pro-town benefit to a flavor claim day 1. This is a scum plan.

That's just BS you could have never guessed my role from my game nor who's role from his game. I don't think anyone can figure out alignment and/or role from any game.
You say robocop. I say possible roles:
ED-209-evil, tries to shoot people, has tendency to malfunction: Scum role, gets extra NK but has 50% chance to fail and instead notify said person of failed assassination attempt.
Alex Murphy- who is Robocop: 1 shot BP and insane cop. Cause he is fucking insane.

There is no way the mod would have given you a regular cop role if you sent in the game robocop. No way. There is also no way that you can think of the exact role the mod would create for any game.

Scorp, address the points made against you and please use a better defence than: "trine, eek and tier are all scum".

What points? Idunno, it seems like a little too suspicious that everyone who got Who mislynched is now on my wagon, so it's hard to not use that defense.

'The points Eek brought up in 508. You have not responded to them without using any other logic than lol everyone who attacks me is scum.

[XScorpion]

That's just BS you could have never guessed my role from my game nor who's role from his game.

I don't think anyone can figure out alignment and/or role from any game.

Then why are we bothering with this?
Scum know the towns alignment, and role information might help them guess who is more likely to have certain roles.

Scorp, address the points made against you and please use a better defence than: "trine, eek and tier are all scum".

What points? Idunno, it seems like a little too suspicious that everyone who got Who mislynched is now on my wagon, so it's hard to not use that defense.

The points Eek brought up in 508. You have not responded to them without using any other logic than lol everyone who attacks me is scum.

Don't misrep; I called you both scum before either of you were voting me.

[My Milked Eek]

I called you both scum before either of you were voting me.

That does not invalidate the points myself or Trine made against you. You're very obviously avoiding it.

[XScorpion]

I addressed both of you already. If you're looking for me to fabricate some other reasoning, it's not going to happen, because it wouldn't be the truth.

[My Milked Eek]

Link please? I can't remember you doing that.

[TierShift]

That's just BS you could have never guessed my role from my game nor who's role from his game.

I don't think anyone can figure out alignment and/or role from any game.

Then why are we bothering with this?
Scum know the towns alignment, and role information might help them guess who is more likely to have certain roles.

It won't give scum any idea who has what role, as I explained in my previous post. I want to do this because town wouldn't care to out their role and it makes it harder for scum to fakeclaim later on.

Does anyone else have objection to flavor claiming? If no, please go ahead and do it.

Scorp, address the points made against you and please use a better defence than: "trine, eek and tier are all scum".

What points? Idunno, it seems like a little too suspicious that everyone who got Who mislynched is now on my wagon, so it's hard to not use that defense.

The points Eek brought up in 508. You have not responded to them without using any other logic than lol everyone who attacks me is scum.

Don't misrep; I called you both scum before either of you were voting me.

I don't misrep nor have I said you didn't call us scum before. What I did say, is that your only defense is that we are scum and you have now confirmed it to be your only defense. I really can't believe you don't have anything else to offer.

[XScorpion]

Do you mean 521? I address that in 523. If you mean 527, I answered everything that I felt deserved an answer in 528 (I'm not going to waste time repeating 'you guys are scum', I think it's clear enough). If I missed something that is actually relevant and worth addressing let me know.

Scorp, address the points made against you and please use a better defence than: "trine, eek and tier are all scum".

What points? Idunno, it seems like a little too suspicious that everyone who got Who mislynched is now on my wagon, so it's hard to not use that defense.

The points Eek brought up in 508. You have not responded to them without using any other logic than

lol everyone who attacks me is scum.

Don't misrep; I called you both scum before either of you were voting me.

I don't misrep nor have I said you didn't call us scum before. What I did say, is that your only defense is that we are scum and you have now confirmed it to be your only defense. I really can't believe you don't have anything else to offer.

Bold = misrep. You're not scum because you attacked me, you're scum because you didn't listen to Bro and lynched the PR.
Why do I need to offer anything to scum?

[XScorpion]

That's just BS you could have never guessed my role from my game nor who's role from his game.

I don't think anyone can figure out alignment and/or role from any game.

Then why are we bothering with this?
Scum know the towns alignment, and role information might help them guess who is more likely to have certain roles.

It won't give scum any idea who has what role, as I explained in my previous post. I want to do this because town wouldn't care to out their role and

it makes it harder for scum to fakeclaim later on

.

Contradiction.
GET LYNCHED.

[TierShift]

Bold = misrep. You're not scum because you attacked me, you're scum because you didn't listen to Bro and lynched the PR.
Why do I need to offer anything to scum?

Ok that was actually unclear. What I meant was that your defense was "I see all the persons attacking me at this moment (me and eek) as scum, so I don't have to address their points". Which is what you are saying once again.

Contradiction.
GET LYNCHED.

Lol no?
Explain how bolded parts contradict themselves.

Lemme put another example for the slow ones.
Let's say you chose Guitar Hero as a game, yes? I'm sure the mod can come up with a shitton of roles for that game. Scum can't know what your role is if you claim it.
It does narrow all possible claims down, though. You aren't able to fakeclaim bomb anymore, for instance.

See what I'm getting at?

[TierShift]

And no, I still mean 508. You have answered my question to address that with: 'this is a misrep'. Please.

[XScorpion]

Contradiction.
GET LYNCHED.

Lol no?
Explain how bolded parts contradict themselves.

Lemme put another example for the slow ones.
Let's say you chose Guitar Hero as a game, yes? I'm sure the mod can come up with a shitton of roles for that game.

Scum can't know what your role is if you claim it.

It does narrow all possible claims down, though.

You aren't able to fakeclaim bomb anymore, for instance.
See what I'm getting at?

More contradictions.

Bold = misrep. You're not scum because you attacked me, you're scum because you didn't listen to Bro and lynched the PR.
Why do I need to offer anything to scum?

Ok that was actually unclear. What I meant was that your defense was "I see all the persons attacking me at this moment (me and eek) as scum, so I don't have to address their points". Which is what you are saying once again.

And no, I still mean 508. You have answered my question to address that with: 'this is a misrep'. Please.

Which points do you want me to address? Just be specific.
Did you already tell me who is scum with me? I must have missed it, can you remind me?