NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

Bert · Post Post #2675 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:57 pm

Yeah 630 feels bold. I wasn't there at that time, so then it depends if you were under fire at the time and if she was latching on. Maybe she was reaction testing you?

732 feels just OK to me. I guess questions can be interpreted as town, but can't really tell the difference. I need to look back, but why she would ask would be interesting. It makes sense for her to reach out to Nacho though.

Yeah, Sakura has been confident in reading Cabd, not sure about other people, but she is definitely solid in that regard. I think she can read Nacho pretty well. Only time I've seen her falter is many months ago in that Stacking the Deck where Tammy/Tierce were scum. She was good in my last newbie.

Bert · Post Post #2676 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:59 pm

In post 2674, KoreanBBQ wrote:The AtE is kinda holding me back because I'm a total sucker at it, but I'm aware that V can pull off the AtE as scum too.

lol didn't know you're a sucker for it. I am too!

Varsoon is pretty manipulative anyway, from what I hear?

Generic · Post Post #2677 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:01 pm

Since I'm currently worrying about a gas leak in my home three days before Xmas I'm sat up feeling sick here able to offer some comment.

Wingate and also an ongoing game I cannot mention right now are the main reasons to not come in with my usual attitude. With everything I'm dealing with here and the health issues it's creating for me I really don't think emotive attachment to this game will be of any help to me whatsoever.

That said, if you remember rightly about my bragging it usually comes into play when someone accuses me of being scum for such a retarded 'tell' I feel the need to point out that if I were scum you wouldn't catch me so easily.

Bert, if you wonder why here hasn't been a fight yet take a look at pies last few posts, he openly admitted to backing down before we even got started. As much as you think I can I cannot argue with myself. The few occasions I have engaged with people to draw the fight they have backed down or disappeared mid flow (mara, koreanBBQ) or walked away from the arguement deliberately (Pieguyn).

I would have loved to had at least one fight to draw the focus but I haven't got the energy to keep trying as I stated at the start of this post.

So if you and f16 were hoping for a fight I'm gonna have to disappoint you at this moment in time.

F-16_Fighting_Falcon · Post Post #2678 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:03 pm

In post 2669, Bert wrote:Mara's an easy wagon to make BIG, quick. And Cabd's defensive responses if he's really in tune with the game, they just add fuel to the fire.

Can you give me a link to where Mara was an easy wagon? I found it to be opposite. It has been quite difficult to get votes on them. I figured scum would want to jump at Mara's screw-up assuming she was town. But then, they have people like Geists backing them up to the hilt despite her play so I am ambivalent.

geists · Post Post #2679 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:04 pm

In post 2663, Bert wrote:
In post 2632, geists wrote:3. Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665) - This is another read where the consensus makes me wonder if I've backed off for bad reasons. But, sticking with my read. I haven't been that impressed with consensuses (consensii?) lately.
Oh, P.S. Ffery I forgot to mention that the suspicion on you and Falcon in this game makes me wonder if I'm on the wrong track too, lol. Putting that out there. You two aren't consensus townreads either, which I'm not used to yet.

I don't understand what you're saying. Whose suspicion? Yours?

Also, I feel like you're making a lot of drive-by negative comments about me for someone who just posted a scumpile that doesn't have me listed in it.

zMuffinMan · Post Post #2680 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:05 pm

sad wrote:Unvote

considering i didn't even really do what you apparently wanted me to do, what made you unvote me?

also, when did you change your mind about casso? coz your 2471 makes it sound like you were leaning town on them, if anything, and 2633 makes it seem like you don't think it's a good wagon

geists wrote:3. Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665) - This is another read where the consensus makes me wonder if I've backed off for bad reasons.

is this still for the way he sorted you? i've skimmed a bit so i dunno if you ever went beyond that as a reason

also, i don't really get your SC or desp reads. SC based entirely off GIF's read? and desp should be a town read for you?

F-16_Fighting_Falcon · Post Post #2681 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:05 pm

In post 2677, Generic wrote:So if you and f16 were hoping for a fight I'm gonna have to disappoint you at this moment in time.

I am not hoping for a fight. I am hoping to get a read on you because I have not been able to do so, so far.

Bert · Post Post #2682 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:09 pm

Below are quotes from when MAra was linked. Wow, my Chosen Mafia memory was bad, they were only at lynch -3. But the other two add, though.

Spoiler:

P-edit: Ffery I'm paranoid about you, don't act surprised lol, paranoia does not equal scum, but I'm still gonna make observations about hwat I don't like. Did you see Sakura on my scumreads list? No. Or Generic? Nope. I mentioned the cons about them in this game so far too. It's not just you. <3

Generic · Post Post #2683 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:10 pm

In post 2681, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
In post 2677, Generic wrote:So if you and f16 were hoping for a fight I'm gonna have to disappoint you at this moment in time.
I am not hoping for a fight. I am hoping to get a read on you because I have not been able to do so, so far.

That's an occupational hazard though when I stop acting like an arsehole and take the game seriously. I really cannot speculate the conditions of when that occurs normally but this time at least it's cos I have been very sled aware in recent games just how much or a dickhead my play has made me look, and I don't want to be known as an exceptional scum player and one of the worst town players his site he so I am trying to knuckle down.

Also is keeping me sane to feel like I'm in control in this one rather than already tossed it away. Bert will tell you how uncomfortable wingate was when I was having a genuine emotional breakdown in game. It's unfair to the rest of the players for me to hijack the game with my mental problems.

F-16_Fighting_Falcon · Post Post #2684 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:15 pm

Generic, which of the players in this game have you played with before besides Mara? Do you have any strong reads on any of them?

geists · Post Post #2685 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:19 pm

In post 2680, zMuffinMan wrote:
geists wrote:3. Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665) - This is another read where the consensus makes me wonder if I've backed off for bad reasons.
is this still for the way he sorted you? i've skimmed a bit so i dunno if you ever went beyond that as a reason

He hasn't really sorted me. It's been more the opposite - I tried to sort him and his replies to me had the tone and content that I look for in town nacho. The thing is, I have seen him hit that tone and content as scum. Usually in chat games, where the charade doesn't have to last very long, but still as scum, he's hit the tone and above all the honesty in replies so clearly that crystal wine glasses shattered.

So, that's not enough for me to call him town. It is enough to make me uneasy about calling him scum or voting him.

I'm trying to make my nacho-sorting methodology more robust. It's not going to happen overnight.

also, i don't really get your SC or desp reads. SC based entirely off GIF's read? and desp should be a town read for you?

I've been thinking all along that Mac sounds town, but he hasn't posted very much and hasn't posted many of the kinds of analytical posts that helps me get a decent read of him. Varsoon, also has come off sorta town to me, but I am terrible at reading him and get annoyed enough with him that my annoyance clouds his actual content. I know that GiF is better at reading him than I am (and I think better at reading him than most players). As long as I think GiF is town, then if he thinks Varsoon is scum, I'll follow him unless I have a stronger read on someone else. I'm kinda relieved, though, that GiF was gambiting a little with that read because I thought I was getting worse, not better, at sorting Varsoon.

Desp is in my middle tier. If he'd been playing all game as he's played the last few pages, I'd probably be calling him town.

Sakura and pieguy are where I'm leaning atm.

F-16_Fighting_Falcon · Post Post #2686 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:21 pm

In post 2632, geists wrote:Updated reads. Not seriatim.

Town

1. Tammy - Still strongest town read.
4. MC Maraca (Cabd + Ms Marangal) - The rising scumread consensus makes me wonder if I'm wrong here, but
I'm sticking with my read

5. F-16_Fighting_Falcon - Realizing that in our prior games I always knew his alignment led to an epiphany
13. KoreanBBQ (GuyInFreezer + Nero Cain) - Ffery's GiF read is town. Nero's pissing her off.
18. DOMO - for ffery this read weakened a little.
Listening to Mara for now.

6. Generic - looks a lot more town over time, especially the way he handled the recent misunderstanding with pieguyn
Bert
roflcopter
- looking pretty town as of replace-in

Maybe Town

3. Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665) - This is another read where the consensus makes me wonder if I've backed off for bad reasons. But,
sticking with my read.
I haven't been that impressed with consensuses (consensii?) lately.
7. Ser Arthur Dayne
pitoli
- My reactions to posts have been some good, some not so good. Keeping him in this group.
11. BROseidon - Less coasting, but I'm a little concerned about the lack of parallel thought that we usually have when we're both town.
14. goodmorning - Less comfortable here as the game progresses due to lack of content.
This despite the Cabd black box meta read.

19. Cephrir - both of us are seeing a lot more scumrir flickers than cephtown flickers as the day has progressed. We're keeping him in maybe town because ffery feels his last posts before v/la were more likely town-Ceph than scum-Ceph
17. zMuffinMan
talah
- This doesn't look like his town game so far. Also doesn't look at all like his replace-in scum game. His interaction with casso was enough of a townfeel to move him from null.

Not so Town

9. Stuffed Crust (Mac + Varsoon) -
GiF said not town.

15. Sakura Hana - could see a scum team with Sakura and pieguyn due to the way their back and forth ended without a sense of resolution. It's hard to fault anyone for lack of participation over the last several days, but I'm not that comfortable with Sakura atm.
10. pieguyn
SonOfZeus
- He's not doing some stuff that I am used to seeing him do when he's town, particularly cross-checking his reads with other players and frequently asking people what they think about other players' posts. The Sakura interactions didn't feel quite right somehow.
20. Desperado - such a huge and intentional meta change feels town, but I dunno. I feel his more recent posts are coming off more engaged and hence more town.

Null or Not enough data

12. Norlkaz
Brian Skies
- Moved to not enough data since replace-in.

These are my reads, though Nati has had a squint at them and agrees directionally.

VOTE: Stuffed Crust

The bolded and the underlined seem to show two different mindsets. What factors influenced those mindsets? What do you think of Sakura in light of my points about her?

Bert · Post Post #2687 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:22 pm

So Ffery, I remember that time with Cabd hosting, where I was scum with Nacho in the chat game

And you read Nacho seriously wrong and then Bork voted you in 3p LYLO after Broseidon venue killed Nacho godfather

Idk, was that the only time you saw Nacho hit that town tone in chat

Or has it been consistent

Bert · Post Post #2688 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:23 pm

Venge not venue

Phone post oops

geists · Post Post #2689 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:25 pm

In post 2652, pieguyn wrote:ffery what the fuck you better not be scum

This really bothered me btw. The phraseology feels off.

geists · Post Post #2690 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:31 pm

In post 2686, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
In post 2632, geists wrote:Updated reads. Not seriatim.

Town

1. Tammy - Still strongest town read.
4. MC Maraca (Cabd + Ms Marangal) - The rising scumread consensus makes me wonder if I'm wrong here, but
I'm sticking with my read

5. F-16_Fighting_Falcon - Realizing that in our prior games I always knew his alignment led to an epiphany
13. KoreanBBQ (GuyInFreezer + Nero Cain) - Ffery's GiF read is town. Nero's pissing her off.
18. DOMO - for ffery this read weakened a little.
Listening to Mara for now.

6. Generic - looks a lot more town over time, especially the way he handled the recent misunderstanding with pieguyn
Bert
roflcopter
- looking pretty town as of replace-in

Maybe Town

3. Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665) - This is another read where the consensus makes me wonder if I've backed off for bad reasons. But,
sticking with my read.
I haven't been that impressed with consensuses (consensii?) lately.
7. Ser Arthur Dayne
pitoli
- My reactions to posts have been some good, some not so good. Keeping him in this group.
11. BROseidon - Less coasting, but I'm a little concerned about the lack of parallel thought that we usually have when we're both town.
14. goodmorning - Less comfortable here as the game progresses due to lack of content.
This despite the Cabd black box meta read.

19. Cephrir - both of us are seeing a lot more scumrir flickers than cephtown flickers as the day has progressed. We're keeping him in maybe town because ffery feels his last posts before v/la were more likely town-Ceph than scum-Ceph
17. zMuffinMan
talah
- This doesn't look like his town game so far. Also doesn't look at all like his replace-in scum game. His interaction with casso was enough of a townfeel to move him from null.

Not so Town

9. Stuffed Crust (Mac + Varsoon) -
GiF said not town.

15. Sakura Hana - could see a scum team with Sakura and pieguyn due to the way their back and forth ended without a sense of resolution. It's hard to fault anyone for lack of participation over the last several days, but I'm not that comfortable with Sakura atm.
10. pieguyn
SonOfZeus
- He's not doing some stuff that I am used to seeing him do when he's town, particularly cross-checking his reads with other players and frequently asking people what they think about other players' posts. The Sakura interactions didn't feel quite right somehow.
20. Desperado - such a huge and intentional meta change feels town, but I dunno. I feel his more recent posts are coming off more engaged and hence more town.

Null or Not enough data

12. Norlkaz
Brian Skies
- Moved to not enough data since replace-in.

These are my reads, though Nati has had a squint at them and agrees directionally.

VOTE: Stuffed Crust
The bolded and the underlined seem to show two different mindsets. What factors influenced those mindsets? What do you think of Sakura in light of my points about her?

I don't know what you're asking. In both cases, I'm subordinating my own read (which I don't trust because I have a track record of being wrong when they're town) for what one of my townreads thinks because I think they're better at reading that player than I am.

geists · Post Post #2691 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:33 pm

In post 2687, Bert wrote:So Ffery, I remember that time with Cabd hosting, where I was scum with Nacho in the chat game

And you read Nacho seriously wrong and then Bork voted you in 3p LYLO after Broseidon venue killed Nacho godfather

Idk, was that the only time you saw Nacho hit that town tone in chat

Or has it been consistent

It hasn't been consistent. It's been improving.

geists · Post Post #2692 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:34 pm

VOTE: pieguyn

zMuffinMan · Post Post #2693 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:34 pm

geists wrote:Sakura and pieguy are where I'm leaning atm.

either i'm super bad at reading pieguy or he's town here

if casso doesn't happen, i could get behind a sakura wagon, but really, it would be more of a policy lynch than anything for me

i think i have too many town reads atm

F-16_Fighting_Falcon · Post Post #2694 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:36 pm

ffery, I don't understand this read on Pie either:

In post 2632, geists wrote:10. pieguyn SonOfZeus - He's not doing some stuff that I am used to seeing him do when he's town, particularly cross-checking his reads with other players and frequently asking people what they think about other players' posts.

Looking through Pie's posts, I see him doing it repeatedly:

In post 633, pieguyn wrote:@EVERYONE: if one of my townreads or null-town reads is wrong who do you think it probably is?

A general call out to everyone to comment on his reads. He is cross-checking here.

In post 647, pieguyn wrote:which of my townreads do you think is wrong?

Specifically asks KoreanBBQ which one of his reads is wrong.

In post 656, pieguyn wrote:
@BBQ:
what are your thoughts on Cephrir?

@Cephrir:
what are your thoughts on BBQ?

Cross-checks BBQ's and Cephrir's reads with each other.

In post 659, pieguyn wrote:anything specific you like about him?

Follow-up.

In post 706, pieguyn wrote:generally when my scumreads are wrong or I don't have enough scumreads I default to my null reads. so given you said my scumreads suck I wanted to find out if, under the assumption my scumreads are wrong, my next most likely scumreads were good

if one of my town reads is wrong who do you think it most likely is?

Specific question, apparently to KBBQ again.

In post 841, pieguyn wrote:what do you think about Sakura so far?

Cross-checks his Sakura read with Talah.

In post 868, pieguyn wrote:mostly Tammy's points. also I find it kind of odd how she seemed excited I was in this game and hasn't interacted with me at all since then. I'd think there'd at least be some form of interaction even if it wasn't serious or game-related.

if it was just me I'd probably write it off as paranoia but the fact that other people are starting to see similar things makes me a bit worried for the moment

do you have any reservations on her?

Develops his read on you based on other's points and cross-checks by asking me whether I have any reservations about you.

This is just the first 42 posts of his ISO. I could do this with this entire ISO but I feel that he has been cross-checking reads almost constantly. I'd like elaboration on how he is not or what I am missing.

F-16_Fighting_Falcon · Post Post #2695 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:40 pm

In post 2690, geists wrote:I don't know what you're asking. In both cases, I'm subordinating my own read (which I don't trust because I have a track record of being wrong when they're town) for what one of my townreads thinks because I think they're better at reading that player than I am.

Are you saying you are better at reading GM than Cabd is? Because I remember you saying that you are bad at reading her and contribute to her mislynches as town. It logically follows that you would be listening to what your townread Cabd is saying.

geists · Post Post #2696 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:43 pm

In post 2672, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:I thought Sakura's vote on me in 630 and asking Thor and Nacho for their thoughts in 732 felt genuine. Her followup in 743 also felt townish which was based on Thor's response to her. It looked as though she was looking for something from Thor meta-wise and got it. It did feel off initially that she thought she could read Thor so easily and so early but then again, my model of Sakura based on reading past games indicates that she is confident in her ability to read good scum players. Like that Newbie I said I was following where she was super-confident in her Cabd townread where they both gambited with a cop inno on each other. So, I could plausibly see it coming from her as town. Thoughts?

Is this what you're talking about? Is the newbie game you're talking about 1436? She gambited a stronger read than she actually had on day 1. Cabd's late day 1 play when the wagons were teetering between GM and TSO was town as fuck - and not in a well if you have extensive meta yeah that's town. It was objectively town as fuck and the only question was whether scum Cabd would risk the wagon actually swinging his direction to grab that kind of town cred. Faking a cop inno after that was not such a huge risk.

I have no idea if or how that translates to her ability to read Thor.

geists · Post Post #2697 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:46 pm

In post 2695, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
In post 2690, geists wrote:I don't know what you're asking. In both cases, I'm subordinating my own read (which I don't trust because I have a track record of being wrong when they're town) for what one of my townreads thinks because I think they're better at reading that player than I am.

Are you saying you are better at reading GM than Cabd is
? Because I remember you saying that you are bad at reading her and contribute to her mislynches as town. It logically follows that you would be listening to what your townread Cabd is saying.

I don't understand how you're deriving the bolded from my posts, because I'm saying the opposite. She's not in my scumpile because I'm trusting Cabd's read.

F-16_Fighting_Falcon · Post Post #2698 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:49 pm

It doesn't translate to an ability to read Thor. I thought the way she read Thor was very townish by itself. That's what I was asking for comments about.

The fact that Thor is a good scumplayer undermined my townread on Sakura because I couldn't believe she could get such an easy townread on a competent scum player but remembering that newbie game, I realized it didn't stray from town-Sakura baseline so it shouldn't be too much of a worry.

geists · Post Post #2699 (ISO) » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:51 pm

In post 2694, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:ffery, I don't understand this read on Pie either:
In post 2632, geists wrote:10. pieguyn SonOfZeus - He's not doing some stuff that I am used to seeing him do when he's town, particularly cross-checking his reads with other players and frequently asking people what they think about other players' posts.
Looking through Pie's posts, I see him doing it repeatedly:
In post 633, pieguyn wrote:@EVERYONE: if one of my townreads or null-town reads is wrong who do you think it probably is?
A general call out to everyone to comment on his reads. He is cross-checking here.

In post 647, pieguyn wrote:which of my townreads do you think is wrong?
Specifically asks KoreanBBQ which one of his reads is wrong.

In post 656, pieguyn wrote:
@BBQ:
what are your thoughts on Cephrir?

@Cephrir:
what are your thoughts on BBQ?
Cross-checks BBQ's and Cephrir's reads with each other.

In post 659, pieguyn wrote:anything specific you like about him?
Follow-up.

In post 706, pieguyn wrote:generally when my scumreads are wrong or I don't have enough scumreads I default to my null reads. so given you said my scumreads suck I wanted to find out if, under the assumption my scumreads are wrong, my next most likely scumreads were good

if one of my town reads is wrong who do you think it most likely is?
Specific question, apparently to KBBQ again.

In post 841, pieguyn wrote:what do you think about Sakura so far?
Cross-checks his Sakura read with Talah.

In post 868, pieguyn wrote:mostly Tammy's points. also I find it kind of odd how she seemed excited I was in this game and hasn't interacted with me at all since then. I'd think there'd at least be some form of interaction even if it wasn't serious or game-related.

if it was just me I'd probably write it off as paranoia but the fact that other people are starting to see similar things makes me a bit worried for the moment

do you have any reservations on her?
Develops his read on you based on other's points and cross-checks by asking me whether I have any reservations about you.

This is just the first 42 posts of his ISO. I could do this with this entire ISO but I feel that he has been cross-checking reads almost constantly. I'd like elaboration on how he is not or what I am missing.

It's comparative to other games where he was town. And it's possible that my sense of his posts is off due to the extreme disjointedness of the last few days. So, I'll double check.