Mini 1532: Mac's Mini Normal - GAME OVER~

[Sound of Silence]

Also, how was SoS's vote justified? Unless I missed something, they voted because TV didn't start walling. That combined with the lack of catch up post that was promised combined with prodding another player to make a catch up post just looks really suspicious to me.

You did miss something. The thing that drew our vote was TV posting an exhortation that the people tunneling each other start scumhunting when TV had done fuck-all in the way of scumhunting to that point and continued to do fuck-all afterwards. I didn't say why I made the vote because I wanted reactions to evaluate.

You know from the one game that we've played together that I don't necessarily explain my votes from the start, and that in fact I'm perfectly willing to take flack for not doing so in the interest of gathering more data. Or at least you should know that.

[Sound of Silence]

[quote="In post 315, pieguyn"]Sound of Silence (a hydra of fferyllt and GuyInFreezer) <- ffery has hardly done anything at all this game. IMO it'd make sense if it's bc she rolled scum. I'd also expect her to be pressuring me more which she hasn't done yet, especially if she doesn't agree with the basis behind THE LIST. I have what I think is a meta tell on GIF and there was one post that seemed like town him but not enough data to write them off as town for just that[/quote

Why are you expecting me to pressure you more? If anything, I'd be trying to haul players off you at this point if RC had more traction.

[Sound of Silence]

Quote fail. That's to pieguyn.

[hayatoBL]

I am very busy, but I’m still interested to play. I promise will make up for it tomorrow. In other words, /proddodge.

[Flameaxe]

Snip, reads and shit.

Mostly just curious as to why you post reads on 8 players. Any specific reason there are a few missing names?

[Aegor]

Yes. I was asked for reads on people other than ICE etc. so I skipped those involved in a conflict I see increasingly as town v. town, like I was asked.

[ICEninja]

You know from the one game that we've played together that I don't necessarily explain my votes from the start, and that in fact I'm perfectly willing to take flack for not doing so in the interest of gathering more data. Or at least you should know that.

Keep in mind I was playing that game from a scum mindset, and not analyzing what you did/said. Just because you behaved on a specific way that game doesn't mean I actually paid attention.

That being said, after explaining your vote I find it makes quite a lot of sense, and I agree with it.

Unvote Sound of Silence, vote TunnelVision

.

Blatant 180 flip and sheeping. Carry on.

[Mac]

Vote Count 1.07

Sound of Silence -
Mephistopheles -
HayatoBL [L-6] - Flameaxe,
Aegor -

TunnelVision [L-4]

- Sound of Silence, Aegor, ICEninja,
My Milked Eek -
RadiantCowbells [L-6] - HayatoBL,
don_johnson -

ICEninja [L-4]

- My Milked Eek, don_johnson, Mephistopheles,
Flameaxe -
frog [L-5] - Pieguyn, Remembrance,
Remembrance [L-6] - TunnelVision,
Pieguyn [L-5] - RadiantCowbells, frog,

Not Voting:

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is in (expired on 2014-01-03 08:48:07) from now.

Mod Notes: Still searching for Mephistopheles and pieguyn replacements.

[ICEninja]

Shit, we've got 2 pending replacements and only 4 and a half days. Especially with New Years pending (I, and I'm sure others, will be posting sparsely) we need to come to a consensus and VERY soon. Quite a few players haven't updated their votes recently, and several players have quite useless votes.

Now is the time to read over the main cases and make sure your votes make sense. Deadlines suck, and I was ecstatic my last (scum) game where town was useless until the last 2 days, and settled on a terrible mislynch last second. We're NOT doing that this game.

[TunnelVision]

@Mod: Is it reasonable to grant an extension, given the holidays and the replacements pending? A few days perhaps?

@SoS: thoughts on my beef with Remembrance?

@ICENinja: I suggested previously that there was scum on your wagon, but you didn't really do much with it. Do you disagree with that assumption?

- Bauss -

[don_johnson]

Shit, we've got 2 pending replacements and only 4 and a half days. Especially with New Years pending (I, and I'm sure others, will be posting sparsely) we need to come to a consensus and VERY soon.

drama queen.

mod: extension please.

[hayatoBL]

@Hayato: Thanks for 271, your logic is sound and I did miss some of your answers. You're quite correct.

Town points for dropping a case. Scum likes to look busy. Scum-frog wouldn’t drop my case so easily. Might be buddying but I don't think that’s it.

[hayatoBL]

It doesn’t and you’re making false accusations. I have proof. Take the above statement in bold. I’ll reverse the name.

“I’m voting on RC, because she voted on Pie, while the source of the alignment-tell was ICE, not Pie.”

Yet, the source of alignment-tell was Pie, not Ice. Thus, the above statement doesn’t make sense. Conclusion: I couldn’t have reversed it.

I can't tell if you're actually trying to be this dense or not.

The tell from a definition standpoint points to both players being scum, without one over the other. It doesn't matter who the source of the tell was. And thanks for taking my point literally and just switching the names in one of your posts. Thats really helpful and really shows you understand any of the concern anyone has with your so-called case. I just can't see how anyone in their right mind can see someone point out a tell that negatively paints two players, votes one of those two players, but NOT THE RIGHT ONE, and find it scummy.

PS: Pointing to your own post and saying it is proof of intent only shows how out of touch you are with this argument, and how mind-reading works (it doesn't).

You're trying really hard to defend a horrendously weak point on a horrendously weak vote.

Regarding that tell, ICE could have fit in regardless of any alignment

And now I understand where your lack of understanding comes from.

Well, our discussion has went a full circle. You finally voted for me, like you said you would.

Debating with you is very tiresome. I don’t mind the insults. I guess it’s your personality, but if you could include more contents between those insults we could have moved things forward in a quicker pace.

With that said, I would like a full statement of your points against me.

What have I done after 214, to earn enough scum points that my scuminess outweighed Mephis’?

And where does my lack of understanding comes from?

[hayatoBL]

@Rem

Aegor

Aegor’s vote on MME was good. His FOS on RC was good. Town points for trying to get involved in that Pie/frog case. His early games seems townish enough. But something doesn’t fly with me (regarding MME). Needs further questioning. Until then, town.

Mephis

His choice of person to vote is IMO not bad. Mephis’ case on Rem and ICE were valid. I see no problem with his cases. But with too few post to work on, I can’t make a strong read. But he’s slightly leaning town.

[hayatoBL]

@don

Interact with me please.

ok.

Your vote on Ice is because ICE attempted to twist MME’s words.

no. because he

did

twist eeks words.

Sorry. My bad.

Couldn’t ICE have misinterpreted MME’s post and thus answered in that manner?

and what reason do you have to give ICE the benefit of the doubt in this situation?

Let’s answer a question with a statement next time. I take that as a “Yes, he could have”. Any objections?

Answering your question: Because town don’t know and thus should doubt.

Let’s take a look at this post.

Regardless of my meta read making sense or being true or not, I don't like his reaction one bit.

This makes me even more suspicious. This is basically saying "regardless of bullshit reasons I had before, I'm

actually

suspicious now". I feel like this is too early for confirmation bias to be setting in, unless he was just REALLY paranoid of my scum play, looks like he's trying to find reasons to leave a vote on me.

Now had he come in and said "Alright that was a reaction test there wasn't any parallel and because of ____ reason I find his reaction scummy" that would look like town play scum hunting. This isn't that.

Scummy scum scum.

Looking at this post I could make three different theories.
a) Scum-ICE twisting MME’s words in order to put a vote on him.
b) Null-ICE misunderstood MME’s words.
c) Town-ICE understood MME’s words correctly, which results in Scum-MME backpedalling on his next post, accusing ICE of twisting words.

Your case fits, though I’m wondering whether you’ve thought of alternate theories.

Town wants to figure out who is scum. Figuring out who scum is, includes thinking of alternate theories and thinking which of those theories is likely to be true.

Scum just wants to vote on someone and wait for people to point out his weak vote. Scum knows already who is town and have no need to think of alternate theories.

So, look at the post again, look at the theories and tell me if you land on the same conclusion.

Does attacking a person who is acting like a jerk makes him (the attacking player) scummy?

in some cases, yes. in others, no. in this case, it appears to me as a diversion attempt. an easy way for ICE to push attention away from himself. attacking the "jerk" is similar to attacking the "weakest player" the "noob" or the "lurker". its an easy way out. not necessarily scummy in and of itself, but when combined with other factors, it can certainly help solidify a scumread on someone.

Ok. This is a good one..

Just so that I know you’re not just saying things, which posts gives you the idea that I’m ICE’s scum-buddy?

all of the posts in which you defend and/or make excuses for ICE's play. including this one.

I see how you can come to this. Though, I never intended to defend ICE. It’s just that the cases which I find weak were coincidentally directed towards ICE.

[hayatoBL]

@ICE

Your early cases are good. MME, Pie, Flameaxe. But I disagree with your vote on SoS and TV. I’m against voting on lurky players on D1.

I have town-read on you. Scum-ICE could have stayed longer on Pie’s wagon without arousing suspicion. Yet you stayed there for only one post and changed your target immediately to Flame. I think scum would have stayed longer on that Pie-wagon.

My town-read on you has nothing to do with what you saw as defending you though.

[hayatoBL]

@Aegor

@Hayato, why is your vote still on RC and not someone else.

Because I’d like RC to get lynched today. Do you think RC is town? And why?

MME: Downgraded to null. This could swing either way depending on the promised weekend update.

Since your vote on MME, he haven’t posted anything which could have lead you to your change in reads on him.
What lead you to downgrade MME to null?

[Flameaxe]

Mod: I would like to place my vote against an extension.

Yep. Went there.

[Flameaxe]

Debating with you is very tiresome. I don’t mind the insults. I guess it’s your personality, but if you could include more contents between those insults we could have moved things forward in a quicker pace.

This sort of comment is a quick way to sum up my issue with your play. You're being completely stubborn and refusing to listen to anyone elses opinion, and then throw any of those opinions away by hiding behind insults (which I don't believe I've thrown your way, please elaborate. One sarcastic comment isn't an insult).

I'm voting you because despite posting lots of words per post, you really aren't posting anything meaningful. You keep harping on points that have maybe 15% importance to finding scum. You've had your vote on RC this entire day, but really have but minuscule amounts of effort to actually push a lynch despite:

Because I’d like RC to get lynched today.

Smells like teen

spirit

coasting to me.

Eek: Stop lurking.

[ICEninja]

@ICENinja: I suggested previously that there was scum on your wagon, but you didn't really do much with it. Do you disagree with that assumption?

This is a bit of an odd question. While I admit the answer is kind of buried, I sort of answered your question directly following you asking me this. To elaborate, gut says jon is scum, but until I can really sink my teeth in to solid reasoning why I'm not going to really pursue that much for day 1. I very recently gave my read of Meph (or at least the slot, he's replacing out), and have stated more than once that I think MME is probtown (though his level of lurking is REALLY starting to bug me). I feel like if you were really reading my posts you'd know the answer to that question.

Your case fits, though I’m wondering whether you’ve thought of alternate theories.

Town wants to figure out who is scum. Figuring out who scum is, includes thinking of alternate theories and thinking which of those theories is likely to be true.

Scum just wants to vote on someone and wait for people to point out his weak vote. Scum knows already who is town and have no need to think of alternate theories.

So, look at the post again, look at the theories and tell me if you land on the same conclusion.

Also, I might add, consider which possibility is most likely considering how I followed up in post 84.

Flameaxe, can you please elaborate why you'd like for us to NOT have an extension?

Mod, could we get an activity check? I'm almost certain MME is due for a prod and I wouldn't be surprised if someone else was also.

[TunnelVision]

This is a bit of an odd question. While I admit the answer is kind of buried, I sort of answered your question directly following you asking me this. To elaborate, gut says jon is scum, but until I can really sink my teeth in to solid reasoning why I'm not going to really pursue that much for day 1. I very recently gave my read of Meph (or at least the slot, he's replacing out), and have stated more than once that I think MME is probtown (though his level of lurking is REALLY starting to bug me). I feel like if you were really reading my posts you'd know the answer to that question.

There's nothing odd about it to me. Imagine that you're me for a second, and I make the bold statement that their is scum on your wagon, and scum on another wagon. You respond simply, which is polite/expected, but you don't do any real digging. You also didn't really ask me to followup and explain why I thought that, who I thought was scum, or anything else that I would've expected from a town aligned player in that position. You didn't use the opportunity to try and sort me, get me to develop additional content, or commit to a read/opinion.

VOTE: ICENinja

You'll notice that Pie actually responded to me, asked some questions... attempted to open a dialogue with me. Shared some thoughts, dug a bit, and explored the notion. This is a very town like reaction. Sharing is caring, right? Also, to that point in the game, I've been pretty lackluster in terms of participation, input, etc. You might say I was lurky. Pie tried to draw me in and engage. You didn't.

So, TLDR, your reaction seems out of place with you being town aligned. Pie's seems to jive.

- Bauss -

[Flameaxe]

ICE: I don't see the benefit of drawing an already lengthy day out even longer because a few people decided to show up to the party as it was getting close to deadline. Extending the deadline will only lead to increasing complacency and have the same points being argued in circles.

TL;DR: Zero to minimal impact to the game.

We've been waiting for the same people to make catch up posts for days now, a few more days won't change that, so what exactly are we waiting for?

[frog]

Sorry for the lack of activity recently, don't know what's been happening!

Anyhow, Pie's gone, nobody cares about my case, and I'm beating my head against a brick wall. Sorry RC, but frustrating as it is, a Pie lynch is unlikely to happen today.

Unvote

I'm reading SoS as town, and he's certainly been pushing and hunting a bit (though I admit he is lurky), and I don't see much reasoning behind the votes or suspicion on him. ICE's recent behaviour has made me reconsider my read on him, simply because he's being incredibly expansive and helpful. I don't think his slot is scum.

What I'm not liking is TunnelVision's recent play. That last post screams of you blaming another player for your own lack of work, and I read your comment on scum being on a wagon inflammatory (and not in a good way, as all you seem to be doing is defusing, deflecting, and spreading confusion). I agree with active lurking, and clearly Rank's promise of catching up has not been met. Bauss, please do some scumhunting of your own, not asking Sos about your beef with Rem (how about you explain it? That is your onus, right?) or explaining how someone else could have drawn you in (ever heard of DIY?).

Vote: TunnelVision

[TunnelVision]

What I'm not liking is TunnelVision's recent play. That last post screams of you blaming another player for your own lack of work, and I read your comment on scum being on a wagon inflammatory (and not in a good way, as all you seem to be doing is defusing, deflecting, and spreading confusion). I agree with active lurking, and clearly Rank's promise of catching up has not been met. Bauss, please do some scumhunting of your own, not asking Sos about your beef with Rem (how about you explain it? That is your onus, right?) or explaining how someone else could have drawn you in (ever heard of DIY?).

Vote: TunnelVision

There's a difference between blaming somebody for my own behavior (which I didn't do, at all) and identifying a behavior that is clearly not pro-town in nature (which I did.) I didn't make any excuses for my play, and quite frankly I wanted a reaction from both ICE and Pie... which I got. Looking at the same question posed to two different players, in basically the same fashion, we have two DRAMATICALLY different responses. That doesn't strike you as odd?

What I'm doing is exactly scum hunting... which I alluded to here:

Spoiler:

Some folks still hunt from a tree stand. Some people stalk their prey silently, and creep up on it. Others like long range skill shots. Still others circle overhead in a helicopter and rain death down from above. Hunting takes on many different forms for many different hunters, not all of which you may like or notice personally.

- Bauss -

There's lots of different tools in my tool belt. Asking other players, who I have a history with (SoS in this case), about their thoughts on my play/opinions is scum hunting... whether you see it or not. Sorry. And since we're being honest, their play so far this day has got my attention, which is why I asked them a question in the first place.

- Bauss -

[Remembrance]

This is infuriating, but semi-prod dodge.

Quick question I should have asked a long time ago: @Everyone: Why are you town reading/scum reading me? Specifics, with the exception of Frog, who already gave a reason and Tunnel because I will have to channel the spirit of Mahatma to get through that and I don't want to encourage him.

UNVOTE: