I think it'd be productive to at least hear if someone in this town is on some similar wavelength, or if I really have to wall it up again and be disappointed by your responses again
![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
Thanks. I'll re-read through the BRO parts again.In post 192, pieguyn wrote:http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=32587In post 188, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:Pie, I am not convinced that BRO's assumptions about whether you know the anime = scum. He is null for now. I'll go through his other games to see how he opens his attacks as town or scum. That should shed a better light on his affiliation. Can you link the games you have played with BRO? Pasch is leaning scum.
that's the only one. he was scum I was town
also it's not just the fact he made that assumption. it's how his "engagement" with me was nothing but a bunch of loaded questions that made said assumptions. it's bad enough he made said assumption (especially after I told him I didn't know flavor) but then he used it to come up with a bunch of fake reasons to throw blame at me and get me off him. there's also how he blatantly ignored the fact that another assumption he was making was incorrect. IMO it makes way more sense in the context of my above post. unless that's what you meant
1-shot commute isn't strong enough to make me think that scum would be all about eliminating players with it. Any townie lynch is a good lynch for scum.In post 163, BROseidon wrote:Why would scum push a weak player, though? Given that the majority of townies have a 1-shot commute, scum would want to push people who have the potential to dodge an NK.
This is my favorite thing that plum has said. If she had really figured what weak meant, there's very little scum motivation in revealing that, and I also see little scum motivation in overstating her knowledge if she hadn't.In post 180, Plum wrote:...
It don't know that anyone thought 'Weak' meant what it usually does - it was pretty clear to me by the time she explained it that it probably meant what she then went on to say it means ...
I don't find it similar. I found you opportunistic in Imperishable night for taking Varsoon's side despite Pie having better arguments. I assume you did it because Varsoon was easier to buddy to and less likely to get paranoid. Plum takes Kagami's side but I actually agree that Pasch's arguments are worse than Kagami's so there is no opportunism there - she does what I'd naturally expect townies to do. I also think Kagami is likely to be far more level-headed than Varsoon.In post 195, zMuffinMan wrote:@f16,
this was where i started thinking plum scumIn post 146, Plum wrote:Why shouldn't we lynch you today, Paschendale?
although none of plum's earlier posts were all that great, this is just the type of question i hate the most. i've never seen a town player ask this sort of question, and i can recall examples of scum players using it (like, most recently, pa in FEA)
also didn't like #180. i'm pretty sure you've read imperishable night, or at least skimmed the important parts. how do you not see similarities to my play re varsoon/pie there?
To an extent.In post 206, mykonian wrote:guys, does anyone of you know plum?
Doesn't look like you have a clue how I play. My wiki is updated. Start there.In post 200, mykonian wrote:I mean, if I took the time I could write a nice wall with tells and analysis and far fetched theories that I believe in and you invariably are skeptic about (general "you"). It's a post that's out of place in the game and in f-16's way of playing. It doesn't fit at all, it stands out, it stands out in a way that's scummy.
I think it'd be productive to at least hear if someone in this town is on some similar wavelength, or if I really have to wall it up again and be disappointed by your responses again
Then why don't you actually explain how this is possible? Cuz I see no way that this benefited town at all. All I see is scum having better choices for night kills. And I wasn't suggesting that you were scummy. I was suggesting that you're missing the obvious.In post 179, Kazekirimaru wrote:I've avoided conclusions? My answers to all this questions should be intrinsically obvious at this point. I think her actions were town motivated and deliberately working towards developing the town's position.
That's a weird misrep of your own reaction to the weak claim. And Pie's. And Kaze's. Kaze explicitly invoked the standard meaning. Why are you lying?In post 180, Plum wrote:It don't know that anyone thought 'Weak' meant what it usually does - it was pretty clear to me by the time she explained it that it probably meant what she then went on to say it means and that she believed scum didn't have access to the fact that such a modifier would be part of the setup.
Since the weak modifier isn't based on alignment, explain how this is true. Why are you lying?This isn't even remotely plausible. Scum don't and can't have the Weak modifier; they are Weak by default.In post 147, Paschendale wrote:I think it is far more likely that she or part of the scum team is a goon and has the weak modifier, hence how they know what it means.
It takes a lot of cognitive dissonance to watch someone repeatedly say that they have a plan for when a third person claims and not see that as a call for a claim. So again, why are you lying?She never asked for another 'Weak' claim - only stated what she'd do in the event of a third one - which, considering what she assumed about scum knowledge, was a pretty reasonable approach.
Every word of this is a lie. It's obvious that scum (you and probably Plum) knew all of this from the start. There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that scum wouldn't understand this modifier, either from fake claims or from their own roles. This is just you pretending not to have had this information that you clearly had when formulating this plan.In post 181, Kagami wrote:pasch, I'm quite sure I'm correct about everything I said regarding the weak modifier, the "danger" was that scum would know what it is (either through their fake-claim information or through special mod-granted setup knowledge as bro suggested) and would use that knowledge to snatch some town-cred. The fact that nobody jumped on being the third "claim" suggests to me that they weren't given explicit setup knowledge regarding the modifier, and if one of them has the modifier in their fake-claim, they didn't figure out what it meant (it's not obvious, as bert proved, and would be even less obvious to scum who wouldn't have it on their real PM despite lacking maneuver gear).
Except for the part where it's obviously a lie and you try to milk it super hard for townpoints, yeah, no scum motivation at all.In post 203, Kagami wrote:This is my favorite thing that plum has said. If she had really figured what weak meant, there's very little scum motivation in revealing that, and I also see little scum motivation in overstating her knowledge if she hadn't.In post 180, Plum wrote:...
It don't know that anyone thought 'Weak' meant what it usually does - it was pretty clear to me by the time she explained it that it probably meant what she then went on to say it means ...
I'm always disappointed when I research these tells. Quick search of "Why shouldn't we lynch you" gives the following results (ignoring ongoing games):In post 195, zMuffinMan wrote:@f16,
this was where i started thinking plum scumIn post 146, Plum wrote:Why shouldn't we lynch you today, Paschendale?
although none of plum's earlier posts were all that great, this is just the type of question i hate the most. i've never seen a town player ask this sort of question, and i can recall examples of scum players using it (like, most recently, pa in FEA)
also didn't like #180. i'm pretty sure you've read imperishable night, or at least skimmed the important parts. how do you not see similarities to my play re varsoon/pie there?
i highly doubt there are "goons" in the traditional sense in this game. when a "town vanilla" is essentially a 1-shot commuter, i doubt goons are just goons in the sense you're thinkingpasch wrote:If weak means not having gear, than a goon would necessarily have it. It's an obvious lie that only town could have it. And one that you dutifully repeat.
a quick scan over some of those games suggests you're right about this! those are divorced of their contextkagami wrote:Obviously, these are divorced from their context
You're right that plum's is really out of the blue, whereas most these instances are provoked.In post 213, zMuffinMan wrote:a quick scan over some of those games suggests you're right about this! those are divorced of their contextkagami wrote:Obviously, these are divorced from their context
tbh, even without looking at it like that, the tone of the question is just off. "unprovoked" is sort of right, but it's more like, "what is the point of that question?"kagami wrote:You're right that plum's is really out of the blue, whereas most these instances are provoked.
i don't see your point here. plum-scum may have really known what was being hinted at from the discussion taking place, so "revealing" this is just a truth statement that's really rather null, if anything. i mean, i suppose shekagami wrote:If she had really figured what weak meant, there's very little scum motivation in revealing that, and I also see little scum motivation in overstating her knowledge if she hadn't.
prob townf16 wrote:zMuffinman, what are your thoughts about Pasch?
Explain, please.In post 184, mykonian wrote:Paschendale's entrance is decent.
That question was a variation of the statement 'you are hella scummy bro and I'd like to redirect more of the conversation towards that subject'. I . . . really don't think I've read anything of Imperishable Night? Sorry?In post 195, zMuffinMan wrote:@f16,
this was where i started thinking plum scumIn post 146, Plum wrote:Why shouldn't we lynch you today, Paschendale?
although none of plum's earlier posts were all that great, this is just the type of question i hate the most. i've never seen a town player ask this sort of question, and i can recall examples of scum players using it (like, most recently, pa in FEA)
also didn't like #180. i'm pretty sure you've read imperishable night, or at least skimmed the important parts. how do you not see similarities to my play re varsoon/pie there?
In post 196, zMuffinMan wrote:oh, also, i don't really get this partIn post 180, Plum wrote:This isn't even remotely plausible. Scum don't and can't have the Weak modifier; they are Weak by default.
This doesn't completely rule out a Titan(-shifter?) having 3DMG, but it certainly implies that the default state is that Human characters have the 3DMG ability and scum do not.In post 622, pitoli wrote:4. There is a fancy night-only mechanic involving the 3D Maneuver Gear technology from the story!! Human-aligned players will be able to use a limited special ability to avoid Titan actions during the Night, leading to general confusion and misdirection.
Key words here are 'by the time she explained it'. As in, not immediately, but after some of Kagami's cryptic-ish statements and before she stated it explicitly, I made the intuitive leap. And to clarify - from the time Kagami stated with confidence that the modifier wasn't Normal Weak and that scum wouldn't know what it was, I couldn't come up with a usual setup approach that wouldn't involve scum knowledge of what the Weak modifier is. But I hoped Kagami had explicit reason to believe it was the case, that the confidence from which she spoke was based on that information.In post 210, Paschendale wrote:That's a weird misrep of your own reaction to the weak claim. And Pie's. And Kaze's. Kaze explicitly invoked the standard meaning. Why are you lying?In post 180, Plum wrote:It don't know that anyone thought 'Weak' meant what it usually does - it was pretty clear to me by the time she explained it that it probably meant what she then went on to say it means and that she believed scum didn't have access to the fact that such a modifier would be part of the setup.
Again:In post 210, Paschendale wrote:Since the weak modifier isn't based on alignment, explain how this is true. Why are you lying?
In post 622, pitoli wrote:4. There is a fancy night-only mechanic involving the 3D Maneuver Gear technology from the story!! Human-aligned players will be able to use a limited special ability to avoid Titan actions during the Night, leading to general confusion and misdirection.
My thinking is that scum would be very careful not to tip their hats if they knew. In any case, I'm quite confident that they didn't know. It could very well be that she had a strong, correct suspicion about it, but scum-plum wouldn't be confident enough to claim weakness and risk being outed, so maybe you're right. My feeling is still town-plum.In post 217, zMuffinMan wrote:i don't see your point here. plum-scum may have really known what was being hinted at from the discussion taking place, so "revealing" this is just a truth statement that's really rather null, if anything. i mean, i suppose shekagami wrote:If she had really figured what weak meant, there's very little scum motivation in revealing that, and I also see little scum motivation in overstating her knowledge if she hadn't.couldhave just said nothing about it, but it's a far cry from being any sort of alignment tell.
I think her heart was in the right place. She sounded to me like she genuinely thought she had broke the setup and was about to confirm a slew of townies. And that would have been beneficial for the town.In post 210, Paschendale wrote: Then why don't you actually explain how this is possible? Cuz I see no way that this benefited town at all. All I see is scum having better choices for night kills. And I wasn't suggesting that you were scummy. I was suggesting that you're missing the obvious.
How is Pasch prob town?In post 217, zMuffinMan wrote: prob town
Just to clarify - why do you believe scum wouldn't say they knew what weak meant, again?In post 219, Kagami wrote: My thinking is that scum would be very careful not to tip their hats if they knew. In any case, I'm quite confident that they didn't know. It could very well be that she had a strong, correct suspicion about it, but scum-plum wouldn't be confident enough to claim weakness and risk being outed, so maybe you're right. My feeling is still town-plum.
I would like to think I'm clever enough to do so, but if that were the case, pitoli's post would be a fairly severe violation of neutrality. It would also be very odd that there would only be a single "weak" human that is confusingly attached to the miller status, yet with weak being in a fake-claim.In post 221, mykonian wrote:and if that isn't the case, it's kagami who was quick of mind. That'd be a nice gambit. Low risk high reward etc. Confirm "just" bert (soz, but you know what I mean) while setting up a fakeclaim straight away, and getting a ton of towncred if nobody is ticked off by you thinking about the setup so much.
it's not out of the question. I know if I was well awake and my fakeclaim was something "weak human" or it was talked about by the mod or anything, it only takes some steady nerves to abuse Bert coming in like he did. I don't know kagami's nerves (yet). I don't think bert would claim the way he did if he were scum.