Mini 1532: Mac's Mini Normal - GAME OVER~

[Sound of Silence]

hayato's play was unspecific, there was very little like reasons for his town leans and scum leans starting with that post. Some of the posts had a lot of opinion and very little substance for their size.

RC moves in and he interprets what he RC says as a bluff (It's a tool) denies RC, but then says he's bluffing and decides that he wants to make it an RC vs. HayatoBL lynch. Why did he think his position warranted it? How could be so sure with that RC was scum given his reasoning? And why did he make a very insincere speech about it? It felt like he was shoring up for the winter and needed to post something big before he left. I don't know if it's because he felt cornered and felt he needed to make a big play or what, but it's unexplained, unexpected, and antitown.

@Aegor, you said I was your strongest town read. What? Why doesn't your reasoning for that exist?

I skimmed this analysis the other night, and it's the main reason I wanted to look at hayato again. I was turned off by the huge back and forth between hayato and grimgroove in our last game. grimgroove came away from it with an erroneous town read. I am not at all complacent about Hayato this time, but the walls have the same effect on my motivation.

[Sound of Silence]

Pie can live for today because Hayato is a much more pressing concern. If votes were to return to him, I would happily lynch that, but at the moment my vote stays where it is.

If you are voting TV, you are hardclaiming scum

.

How so?

[Mac]

Deadline is now 8th of January, regardless of whether or not a replacement is found.

Vote Count 1.09

Sound of Silence -
Xscorpion -
HayatoBL [L-6] - RadiantCowbells, Remembrance,
Aegor -

TunnelVision [L-2]

- Sound of Silence, Aegor, ICEninja, frog, Xscorpion,
My Milked Eek -
RadiantCowbells [L-6] - HayatoBL,
don_johnson -
ICEninja [L-3] - My Milked Eek, don_johnson, TunnelVision, Flameaxe,
Flameaxe -
frog [L-6] - Pieguyn,
Remembrance -
Pieguyn -

Not Voting:

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is in (expired on 2014-01-08 18:54:43) from now.

Mod Notes: hayatoBL is V/LA til January 5th.

Still searching for pieguyn replacement.

[Mac]

BBmolla replaces pieguyn!

[BBmolla]

Cool catching up

[BBmolla]

Expect a post tonight, I'm busy atm.

[Remembrance]

@ICE

Your early cases are good. MME, Pie, Flameaxe.

But I disagree with your vote on SoS and TV. I’m against voting on lurky players on D1.

I have town-read on you. Scum-ICE could have stayed longer on Pie’s wagon without arousing suspicion. Yet you stayed there for only one post and changed your target immediately to Flame. I think scum would have stayed longer on that Pie-wagon.

My town-read on you has nothing to do with what you saw as defending you though.

wow. this is my first game, and to read 8 different people is really tough. i don't totally get it, how you guys can read, whether someone is scum or not. I mean, if i were town, i would behave normally, perhaps actively scum-hunting etc.. If i were scum, i would simply do the same as if i were town, scum-hunting etc..

My point is, IMO almost every act a player does in this game can be both a scum-tell or town-tell, depending on which way you're looking at it. So my reads are not based on the statement you guys make. So based on what am i making my reads? Purely on the activity of the players.

1) An active town is a good player to keep.
2) Lynching a

passive

town is not a big loss.
3) An active scum may trip on his/her own toes. Making statements which may be self contradictory.
4) A

passive

scum is dangerous, if not dealt with quickly.

With this, i think passive players should be lynched on Day 1 (or someone who's stupid enough to admit their scum). Self contradiction and scum alliances can be observed and confirmed only at the start of day 2 after players are flipped, IMO.

Scumreads

??????

[BBmolla]

Wow Pie's reads sucked

I thought Pie would have good reads but lo and behold I get "RC IS SCUM!!" garbage

Not amish, reading Pie's posts as I readthrough because I thought he'd solve the game but nope.

[BBmolla]

Also pretty certain top 2 wagons are on town so yeah, stop sucking please.

[BBmolla]

But I'm only on page 6, if we want scum we should lynch Rememberance or I'd be down to policy lynch RC

[BBmolla]

I don't really know if BBM is town but I'll probably end up sheeping him the rest of the game cause he's right about everything.

[BBmolla]

He can be town for now at least, I'll reconsider when he leads me onto three mislynches.

[BBmolla]

Okay I'll make one big post instead

IceNinja is super srs about everything so that's probably why he's being run up

SoS is extremely underwhelming.

Ice is just a derp dudes, stop. Like not even scum derp. Just derpy. Probably town too due to genuinity.

Holy shit, why are people talking trash about Flameaxe's posts, they are quite literally the best posts in this game, what is wrong with you all

Scumemberance can't handle the heat

I'm quite glad I don't know Flameaxe in person. Is he this unpleasant every game? His posts are taking the fun out of this game by making things personal and insulting.

rofl

SoS continues to be the epitome of useless.

TunnelVision is going to start walling soon.

I laughed out loud.

I'm seeing lots of TvT going down, IMO. How about everybody starts digging into the scumballs instead?

- Bauss -

...
ok maybe one of the top 2 wagons is on scum

[BBmolla]

Rememberance being scum kind of hangs on whether he'd seriously go meta everyone as scum.

TV thinks Rememberence is scummy well thats cool I guess

Fisto seems pretty much the epitome of low posting new player, his early posts kinda sucked, later posts pinged me as town though.

I like don. I just like him. What a swell guy.

I'll bet money pie hasn't played with RC, cause that'd basically explain everything. I actually dig our frog vote though.

nope, never played with him

Baha, this was literally two posts after I typed the above. Man I'm cool.

Frog, I'll need to think.

Scumbuddy identified, cool cool cool.

Rememberence strikes me as super thorough, and I could see his meta shit being a "genius strategy" of his to seem town.

It's possible the guy just annoys the shit out me, I'm not sure yet.

EH, I'll humor you. Just get your head in the game, I don't like to mislynch, it upsets me.

VOTE: Frog

@Radiant, tell me if you still think he's scum in a few days time. I will listen to you.

@Don, oh okay. Basically it toes the line between playing based off philosophy "It's out of my hands, he did this thing" versus, just trusting your method. It's close to a scum tell I stole. But there's a reason, I said "I'm not sure" rather than "Vote don Johnson" it's because you weren't there.

noting

frog ignores case on him from pie, instead attacks pie, okay

Rem is good cop, frog is bad cop lol

o man that frog selfvote

He's self voting because people are dumb? uh k

I guess that makes him town? eh

holy shit this is boring, I'm not reading any more crap about the stupid reaction test, it was dumb and didn't do shit why is this being debated. What a distraction from anything useful.

Yeah frog is trying to prove a point he's town

no comment on heyato vote from Flameaxe, I've ignored that slot cause his posts bore the shit out of me.

TV's posts are trash I take back what I said, solid lynch, 10/10 would hang

I'm vigging RC tonight btw so don't shoot him mafia or sk(like you would, rofl)

Rem is like a clone of mastin, and I think he's super tryhard mafia atm. Scum QT will be like 1000 pages with Rememberence just talking about all the crazy strategies he's planning on pulling.
"Guys, I'm gonna meta everyone. Nobody in the right mind would do it as scum, so everyone will assume I'm town. Then I'll coast to victory."

SoS is scum

Game is solved, it's TV/SoS/Rem.

This is infuriating, but semi-prod dodge.

Quick question I should have asked a long time ago: @Everyone: Why are you town reading/scum reading me? Specifics, with the exception of Frog, who already gave a reason and Tunnel because I will have to channel the spirit of Mahatma to get through that and I don't want to encourage him.

UNVOTE:

Gut, and you seem to want to show how smart you are and I think it's you being all mastinmindy behind the scenes

I mean even that question "Let me see how many people think I'm town so I can rub it in their faces later."

Hey Hayato, let's all make a deal.

How about you guys lynch me today, then when I flip town you and Iceninja are autolynched on the following two days.

Are you up for it?

Yes to the first part, no to the second part.
So we're clear I don't think you're scum but I do think you'll be completely counter productive all game.

Also, Remembrance might go in the scumpile, but town will have to wait because *reasons*.

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooah. RC if you will be useful this game I will take back everything I've said about you.

TV citing "this is what I do as scum" pinged minorly town

So I just read through RC's ISO, and realized he hasn't even made a case against Hayato.

How the fuck do you expect to convince us to vote him just by stamping your foot and making a scene?

That's how RC does it dood. He tunneled on me for all of N's Theme game and I still don't know why he thought I was scum.

[BBmolla]

Town

Aegor WBOCampfire1104
RadiantCowbells
don_johnson
ICEninja
Flameaxe
frog cedolad

Scum if I'm wrong about any of the ones list

My Milked Eek
XScorpion Mephistopheles*

One of them is probably scum so what I said about wagons being town was dumb

hayatoBL
TunnelVision*

Scum:

Sound of Silence (a hydra of fferyllt and GuyInFreezer)
Remembrance

[BBmolla]

UNVOTE:

[BBmolla]

SoS is more likely to bus than Rememberence so TV is more likely scum I think? I'll try to read hayato tomato's shit more in depth tomorrow.

I'll throw a vote down after I do that

night

[TunnelVision]

Is there a reason why you're subtly discrediting my meta experience with you here? It is pretty thin meta experience, but I'm used to making do with thin meta soup.

You do sit back and observe, but this is page 18 of a mini game and IME you give some pretty strong hints about where you're going much earlier than this in the games we've played.

I did not discredit at all. I actually believe that your vote and play was a pressure move, not a legit "I think TV is scum, let's hang him." I thought you were doing it to flesh out s read, not to actually lynch me. Am I wrong or right in that assumption?

You're right, I do tend to point out where I'm going pretty early... which I did.

Quantity of posts doesn't distinguish my scum game, though depending on the games you take a look at (town and scum) you could come away with that impression. You obviously didn't have a look at the Xenogears Large theme game. Even when AFB was making 5-6 post combos raging at you in NY 167, the Sangres post count was always higher, and the majority of those posts were mine. That changed on the final day with the gunsmith reveal and RC's faked cop guilty. In other words, I can and do manipulate my post count as scum sometimes.

The observation about engaging probably has some truth, but it's a subtle thing that could easily be lost in the noise in my games, because I go silent frequently as town, too, especially when a lot is happening in the game thread. Observing without jostling what's going on too much is sometimes pretty revealing. I think you probably understand the reasons for that technique because you also employ it.

But its more than simply the quantity. Its more the quantity/quality, or overall "usefulness" of the posts. Where you're coming from, where you're going, what's the game status, who are you developing a read on, who's opinion are you trying to leverage off, etc. You were a leader as town, trying to rally townies to work together. As scum you weren't. It feels as if youre not part of the team when you're scum. Its nuance, but I found it and I think its a pretty good window into your play.

So, I have one last point/observation that I need clarity on:
Why are you voting me?
I've noticed from your play that you have been reluctant to hang players that you know can be assets to the town, if you are uncertain of their alignment. So why, at this stage of the game, given my play (which you said yourself could jive with either alignment) are you voting me? Surely with several days remaining, and other suspects around, there are other plays to be made... but you've parked your vote on me even as I sit at L2. I think town Fferyllt would've cautioned against this and unvoted, in this game state.

- Bauss -

[TunnelVision]

Rank has been absent for basically the whole game. Do his thoughts differ from yours significantly?

Also, is this typical of your hydra?

No, not typical. Rank has been busy. Its the holiday season and he got a huge promotion at work. After all these years of my coaching and tutelage, they made Rank a bauss... finally. Unfortunately, he lacks the supreme boss powers of an experienced boss (like me) so he's buried.

When we last caught up, he didn't like Remembrance (read) and didn't want us to lay out anymore than one scum read for today (strategy.) He didn't want scum to know we were coming for them/onto them. But, he hasn't shared much strategy/reads since then and I'm just going to layout all my opinions/cards before nightfall if he doesn't come back.

- Bauss -

[Mac]

My Milked Eek and don_johnson were prodded.

[frog]

Hi BBMolla, thanks for replacing in.

Can somebody neatly summarise the case on hayato? I initially thought they were scum but they started being specific when I started questioning, which made me reconsider my read.

[Sound of Silence]

Is there a reason why you're subtly discrediting my meta experience with you here? It is pretty thin meta experience, but I'm used to making do with thin meta soup.

You do sit back and observe, but this is page 18 of a mini game and IME you give some pretty strong hints about where you're going much earlier than this in the games we've played.

I did not discredit at all. I actually believe that your vote and play was a pressure move, not a legit "I think TV is scum, let's hang him." I thought you were doing it to flesh out s read, not to actually lynch me. Am I wrong or right in that assumption?

You're right, I do tend to point out where I'm going pretty early... which I did.

GiF pressure-votes. When I put a vote down, it's a serious vote and I'm willing to lynch based on what I have to go on at that point in time. Our vote on you fit both approaches.

Quantity of posts doesn't distinguish my scum game, though depending on the games you take a look at (town and scum) you could come away with that impression. You obviously didn't have a look at the Xenogears Large theme game. Even when AFB was making 5-6 post combos raging at you in NY 167, the Sangres post count was always higher, and the majority of those posts were mine. That changed on the final day with the gunsmith reveal and RC's faked cop guilty. In other words, I can and do manipulate my post count as scum sometimes.

The observation about engaging probably has some truth, but it's a subtle thing that could easily be lost in the noise in my games, because I go silent frequently as town, too, especially when a lot is happening in the game thread. Observing without jostling what's going on too much is sometimes pretty revealing. I think you probably understand the reasons for that technique because you also employ it.

But its more than simply the quantity. Its more the quantity/quality, or overall "usefulness" of the posts. Where you're coming from, where you're going, what's the game status, who are you developing a read on, who's opinion are you trying to leverage off, etc. You were a leader as town, trying to rally townies to work together. As scum you weren't. It feels as if youre not part of the team when you're scum. Its nuance, but I found it and I think its a pretty good window into your play.

I do like to lead when I feel I have a handle on the game. And what you are describing is trajectory, at least part of it is, which is something I try to lay down in my posts as either alignment, and in fact get quite meticulous about when I'm scum.

There's a huge blank hole in my play due to the holidays and being hellishly over-committed in games. It's starting to resolve but I still have games that haven't gotten enough love.

So, I have one last point/observation that I need clarity on:
Why are you voting me?
I've noticed from your play that you have been reluctant to hang players that you know can be assets to the town, if you are uncertain of their alignment. So why, at this stage of the game, given my play (which you said yourself could jive with either alignment) are you voting me? Surely with several days remaining, and other suspects around, there are other plays to be made... but you've parked your vote on me even as I sit at L2. I think town Fferyllt would've cautioned against this and unvoted, in this game state.

- Bauss -

I'm voting you for three reasons. At the time I put the vote down, it was because of the scummiest looking post in the game up to that point. I still haven't seen an individual post that exceeds that one. I wanted your reaction - which was basically ignoring the vote until your wagon hit L-2, and I wanted the reactions of other players, which I've gotten. And thirdly I wanted to see who would put you at L-1. And no one has, which suggests either scum don't have a strong appetite for your lynch, or they've already committed as many votes to the wagon as they're willing to given the game state.

UNVOTE

You've encouraged others to look on their own wagons for scum. What are your thoughts about your wagon's composition.

[XScorpion]

UNVOTE

Why?
And why are you not voting anyone else?

[Sound of Silence]

Because his last posts are more like the town-bauss I remember from our first game.

We'll put our vote down again when we've decided where we want it.

[XScorpion]

Deadline looms so don't take too long.
I don't see anyone besides TV who has votes that I'd want to vote for except RC who only has one vote.
Who would support RC lynch today? Clearly Hayato and RC would considering their 'bargain' or whatever.
Would not be opposed to a Rem lynch (TV and BBm seem to be on board with this).
Who would support Rem lynch today?