Newbie 1466: ICECREAM! (Game Over)

[GuyInFreezer]

VoteCount 1.11

SalmonellaDreams (L-4):

huateasa

Karlos4 (L-2):

vonflare | TeedyKay | Surye
>

Huateasa (L-1):

Thor665 | SalmonellaDreams | Ulysses96 | Karlos4

Not Voting:

awesomeusername

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline is Janurary 19, 3:30 PM EST.
Countdown: (expired on 2014-01-19 15:30:00)

Next time, please place a vote on a new line so I can locate it better.

[Karlos4]

I voted Hua, as he was previously not posting anything at all. I gave my reasons: People that dont post enough dont reveal information about them. They seem to hide something. - Scum
Thats why I went for Hua.

[Ulysses96]

@Karlos: OK, thanks.

@Ulysses: Which of the 6 points below do you disagree with and why? You can pick more than one if you want.

1. Thor didn't think vonflare was scum.
2. Thor’s question to vonflare was intentionally insulting.
3. The insulting nature of the question was intended to make vonflare look vulnerable.
4. By making vonflare look vulnerable, Thor intended to start a wagon on vonflare.
5. Intentionally starting a wagon on someone without a scumread on that slot is scummy.
6. Therefore, Thor’s question to vonflare was scummy.

1. ehh i believe Thor thought Von was acting scummy, but not necessarily think he was genuine scum. So kind of neutral there.
2. Same with this one, if it was intentionally insulting, it could have been to get a reaction. If it wasnt, then it guess it was interpreted wrong.
3.Disagree. Like i said, it could have been used to get a reaction.
4.Disagree. I dont believe Thor meant Von to look vulnerable.
5.Im not sure i understand the phrasing of this one, do you mean that its scummy to start a wagon on someone for no reason?
6.Disagree entirely.

[Karlos4]

5. Ne he means it is scummy to start a wagon on somebody that he actually bdlieves is town...

[awesomeusername]

@hua: I think scum would definitely admit that you're scumhunting if they knew it'd give them town points. That's not even an issue anyways.

@Ulysses: Karlos is close. I mean it's scummy to start a wagon on someone unless you think they're scum. Say I were to start a bandwagon on you. 5 says that would be scummy of me if I didn't think you were scum.

@Thor: Back to the numbered argument.
1) Not disputed.
2/3/4) I can see how she might think you intended to undermine vonflare’s intelligence as the question did end up making him look and feel kinda silly. And though I have some problems with 4 in particular, it doesn't seem far-fetched to deduce that when a player is undermined, the intent is for others to vote that person. Hence building a wagon.
5) I thought I agreed with this at first glance. You’re supposed to wagon those who you think are scum, right? But indeed, wagoning someone to get a read on them (for pressure) makes sense, especially early day 1.
6) Follows logically from the others.

I never said I thought her beliefs were OK, just that she wasn't lying. Also, I read up on your meta a bit (well OK, one scum game and one town game) and this looks more like town Thor.

That's sort of, in a nutshell, why I think Hua is lying and being scummy - she's flat out ignoring things and making up other things. If she's town I think we're better off without her, and if she's scum she needs rope.

That makes sense from your standpoint, too. I did note that she wasn't reading carefully at the beginning and did ignore some stuff, but I think the "making up things" are differences of opinion.

@vonflare: Thank you for reminding me.

VOTE: Karlos4

The bad logic doesn't bother me so much as the fact that he's claiming that he's not sheeping Thor anymore when in fact he is. His actions don't match his words, which is especially bad because his words in this case are his primary defense (see post 221).
I've been conflicted on him since I've been sensing genuine intent from his posts; I think I've identified that as genuine intent to not appear scummy. While for a newbie this isn't actually that much of a scumtell, the "genuine" vibe was my primary town tell on him before.

L-1 again.

[Ulysses96]

@AUN , ah i see, well generally it is quite scummy to start a wagon on someone who you dont believe is scum, however if you have more of fenced opinion, like you said it makes sense for it to be used in order to get a better read. Bit of a gambit though.

[TeedyKay]

Do we have to remind everyone of the post of intent to vote before allowing a retort of any substance, before the hammer?

[TeedyKay]

Sorry to double post, just wanted that remind out there quick, just in case.

@AUN, am I able to put my two pennies worth in regards your 6 points?

[awesomeusername]

Sure, go ahead. I was just making sure Karlos and Ulysses were actually following what was going on since their reasons for voting hua sounded to me like "what Thor said."

[Thor665]

@Awesome - in addition, correct me if I'm wrong, but her case also hinges on using an interpretation of what VonFlare did that, VonFlare himself has claimed is not what he intended...and did so because of my scummy attack rhetorical (though it's not) question that actually did clarify what he meant and was doing.

[awesomeusername]

I thought I addressed that in 259? Middle paragraph.

[huateasa]

@Huataslkd - are you planning to do the rest of your wagon...and if so at about what pace can we expect to see these cases?

I am currently on vacation, so I can't really devote too much time. Perhaps late Wednesday/Thursday night? For now, I will continue to pursue Salmonella.

@Salmonella: You did not update your stance after I have responded to Thor's questioning as well as all the development in the game.

To me, Karlos has given like no reason for hopping on.

I don't think anyone realizes, but Salmonella is guilty of this. He joined the wagon early and provided no personal opinion even to this point. He has done no analysis, yet continues to threaten me with L-1.

[vonflare]

hmmmm...

Alright, so will anyone on the Hua wagon submit intent to lynch Karlos?

We need a claim out of him.

[vonflare]

wait a minute, there are 4 possibilities here:

Karlos is scum, Hua isn't: this is the most likely scenario, because karlos is voting hua, but hua isn't voting karlos, even though it would mean saving himself.

Karlos and Hua are scum: plausible, but if karlos is bussing hua, it would take a little more guts than Karlos has expressed so far.

Karlos and Hua are town: well, kinda possible, but the wifom is hurting my head.

Hua is scum, Karlos is town: highly unlikely, because if it were true, hua would vote karlos to save himself and get a mislynch. which, obvously, he hasn't. yet.
of course, if karlos flips scum, and hua voted for him, that would probably mean hua is town, mostly because if they were both scum, one wouldn't throw his scumbuddy under the buss day 1.

therefore, I believe that Hua is town, karlos is scum.

[vonflare]

got some questions:

Hua: Do you think Karlos is scummy? why or why not? He is at L-1. would you vote for him?

Karlos: Why do you think hua is scum?

question answered

question answered

salmonella: what do you think of Hua voting you? also, do you think Karlos is scum or town? why?

[Thor665]

Intent to hammer - Karlos

Please claim.

@Everyone else - And, yes, I know I stated a town lean on Karlos. I still have that town lean - feel free to react to that if you'd like.

[Surye]

Intent to hammer - Karlos

Please claim.

@Everyone else - And, yes, I know I stated a town lean on Karlos. I still have that town lean - feel free to react to that if you'd like.

My only reaction is wondering what your current read on hua is now.

[Thor665]

Scum.

[Karlos4]

VoteCount 1.01

huateasa (L-3):

Thor665 | Karlos4

Thor665 (L-3):

SalmonellaDreams | Surye

Ulysses96 (L-4):

TeedyKay

Karlos4 (L-4):

huateasa

TeedyKay (L-4):

Ulysses96

Not Voting:

masky, vonflare

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline is Janurary 19, 3:30 PM EST.
Countdown: (expired on 2014-01-19 15:30:00)

#221

I am actually quite convinced that Thor is town. His actions are always for the communitiy and he puts a lot of time into his posts.
Anyways . UNVOTE: Huateasa as he didnt jump onto my wagon to save hisself. Very nice and brave of him. And the right thing to do! I am quite unsure on who to vote right now, I will have to wait for new clues.

Vonflare, you are voting on me, because I went against hua as the tide was flowing his way, right? I voted for him as I saw the irregularities and holes in his line of defense. If you check out Thors long post with the spoiler on it. It explains perfectly why Hua is scum. Now of course this could be all a scheme to gain our trust, but for the time.being hua looks like town. Especially after his actions rrgarding me. He would have perfect reasoning to pounce on me, but refrained from doing so. I have got a town read on Vonflare as he is actually trying to find scum and pointing out wrong things in our posts. The same applies for Thor. About Teedy and Surye and Ullysses I am unsure about. Salmonella and AUN get a townread from me as well, as they trie getting more infos about other players. But I am clueless atm on who to vote. And I am actually rereading posts, but I jus dont see suspicious behaviour. Lets see how people will react and what happens next. Then I will place my vote again.

[Surye]

#221

Are you saying your claim is "town for sure"?

[vonflare]

Hey karlos? geuss what? you have an intent to hammer. that means you need to claim, or you will be lynched!

I see no claim in that paragraph.

and also, how is that quote relevant? it is the vote count from page two.

[TeedyKay]

Karlos, you are aware that you are at L-1 with an intent to hammer right?

I know you hate defenses and all, but now's the time to put up one and a bloody good one at that. If you feel a need to claim do so also.

Otherwsise

Then I will place my vote again

You may not get a chance to.

[vonflare]

ominous music plays

[vonflare]

Vonflare, you are voting on me, because I went against hua as the tide was flowing his way, right?

No. No, no, no. when did I say that? When did

anyone

say that? I am voting you because of all the scummy things you did / are still doing.

And I am actually rereading posts, but I jus dont see suspicious behaviour.

try reading your own posts.

Karlos, you are aware that you are at L-1 with an intent to hammer right?

I know you hate defenses and all, but now's the time to put up one and a bloody good one at that. If you feel a need to claim do so also.

Otherwsise

Then I will place my vote again

You may not get a chance to.

My words exactly. Karlos, you seem not to be aware you are on the brink of getting lynched. please put up some kind of defence so that we don't have to lynch you without you saying anything about it.

[GuyInFreezer]

Bump