Newbie 1466: ICECREAM! (Game Over)

[GuyInFreezer]

VC 2.1

Surye (L-1):

Thor665 | SalmonellaDreams | vonflare

Ulysses96 (L-3):

awesomeusername

huateasa (L-3):

Surye

Not Voting:

huateasa, Ulysses96

With 7 alive, 4 votes to lynch.

The deadline is February 4, 9:00 AM EST.
The countdown is: (expired on 2014-02-04 09:00:00)

[Surye]

8 hours to deadline and she votes completely irrelevantly, and then reluctantly hammers. Taking her time to hammer or not hammering is one thing, but the vote on you before was scummy.

By that logic, wouldn't that require me to be obv. town? Am I obv. town?

That is not the logic, why couldn't you be scum, if she could vote you with impunity and without consequence. She wouldn't have had you lynched but could show the vote was there. You're make a illogical jump there.

[Surye]

Aside from an RVS vote early, Hua mentions Karlos about 15 times in the latter half of the day but makes no sort of actual read on him. That's a lot of effort towards what was a "him or me late sloppy hammer with no reads"

[vonflare]

in my not-so-professional opinion, this is the chart of town to scum (towniest on top, scummiest on bottom)

Hua
Salmon
awesomeusername
Thor
Ulesees
Surye

BTW, mod, you spelt thor's name wrong in the votecount. sorry if it is irrelevant, I just wanted to point it out.

[awesomeusername]

@Ulysses (and vonflare): There's not really one post in particular of yours that strikes me as super scummy, but you've been on like 3 major wagons. Every time, the wagon is already well under way (2nd vote on vonflare, 3rd vote on hua, 4th vote on Karlos) and most of your questioning is directed at whoever the most vulnerable player is at the time. You seem generally opportunistic and you seem to like bandwagons.

It's not unreasonable behavior for newbie town, I guess, but I think it's kind of scummy. I do think Surye is scummier right now, but it's pretty obvious why I'm not voting him.

@vonflare: The first thing that came to my mind when I saw Teedy was killed was that scum probably wants us to lynch hua today, clearing her somewhat. The second thing was "Wait no, that's WIFOM." Teedy's reads are probably worth looking at, though, because he's confirmed town.

@Thor: I was rereading and fact-checking in response to hua. I'm reading vonflare's response in 43 to your question as a yes, so he did think hua complimented and voted someone in the same post. I noticed that hua's interpretation of vonflare's post in 57 (her response to the first two quotes) doesn't directly contradict this.

@Surye: Here are your stated reasons for voting Karlos:

Karlos4 - leaning scum -

My vote on Vonflare is pretty strong, and I dont understand what you mean with what is something you disagree with Thor about? And I was sheeping Thor so much, because so many players started voting on him and I wanted them to stop, for he is a very good player, that keeps the game interesting and IF he is town will help us tremendously find the Mafia.

I really don't like his post.His vonflare vote was anything but strong. And sheeping to to stop people from voting someone who is a good player because if he is town it's good? What? If he's scum the opposite happens.

The vonflare vote being weak is a decent point, and a new one, I think. But I feel like you were voting Karlos mostly for having bad logic (mentioned this before in 331). I don't consider bad logic a scum tell unless the player knows the logic they're using is bad, and I don't think Karlos did. How's that for something to discuss?

[Thor665]

@Thor: I was rereading and fact-checking in response to hua. I'm reading vonflare's response in 43 to your question as a yes, so he did think hua complimented and voted someone in the same post. I noticed that hua's interpretation of vonflare's post in 57 (her response to the first two quotes) doesn't directly contradict this.

Please look at the language used there and the language used later in expressing her opinion about my actions.
It starts with 'couldn't you see this' and ends with 'it's scummy Thor didn't see it this way' and the shift happens in direct correlation to me suggesting she, herself, is scummy. I find that scummy and I find that an inherent manipulation of reality for intentional purposes.

[Thor665]

That is not the logic, why couldn't you be scum, if she could vote you with impunity and without consequence. She wouldn't have had you lynched but could show the vote was there. You're make a illogical jump there.

If her end goal was always to hammer Karlos-town, why take the side adventure at all?

[vonflare]

Thor is making sense atm. surye looks like a good day 2 lynch.

[vonflare]

wait, wut? thor, are you arguing that surye or hua is scummier? your above post is a little confusing.

[Thor665]

wait, wut? thor, are you arguing that surye or hua is scummier? your above post is a little confusing.

I don't see how my stance is hard to figure out on who I think i sscummier since I have explicitly stated that a couple of times already today.
My above post was me describing why I find Hua scummy, I never indicated I didn't find her scummy - she is scummy and she should have been lynched yesterday.

[vonflare]

wait, wut? thor, are you arguing that surye or hua is scummier? your above post is a little confusing.

I don't see how my stance is hard to figure out on who I think i sscummier since I have explicitly stated that a couple of times already today.
My above post was me describing why I find Hua scummy, I never indicated I didn't find her scummy - she is scummy and she should have been lynched yesterday.

so, why again are you voting surge? because your statement, that scum would leave you alive to lynch hua, means that you think that hua is town. please explain this?

[Thor665]

so, why again are you voting surge? because your statement, that scum would leave you alive to lynch hua, means that you think that hua is town. please explain this?

I don't understand how that confuses you - I read what you're asking and feel it makes sense on the surface. Here's what i hear;

1. Thor has two suspects.
2. He suspects him being alive suggests one is more likely to be town.
3. He is voting the other suspect.

Which part of that is confusing you specifically?

[awesomeusername]

@Thor: I thought the accusation was that hua supported an interpretation of vonflare's reasoning which was contradicted by his answer to your question, and I don't see a contradiction anymore. The argument you're giving above seems different than the one I was referring to (see 311). There's been a misunderstanding somewhere...

Are you talking about the difference in tone between 57 and 102? Because a lot happened in between those posts besides your suggestion, enough to cause the change of tone, I think, and she did use new posts in the second argument. I'm not sure I understand the "manipulation of reality" part.

@Salmon and @vonflare: Would you mind elaborating a bit on your Surye votes? Since a major reason we're wagoning Surye right now is that the Karlos wagon was scummy, and the Karlos wagon was scummy partially because people weren't discussing, you're being a bit hypocritical. Both of your reasons are "I kinda thought he was scum yesterday" and neither of you said that much about him yesterday.

[huateasa]

Prod dodge. Will post later tonight when I get home.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Winter semester finals week prod dodge.

[Thor665]

@Thor: I thought the accusation was that hua supported an interpretation of vonflare's reasoning which was contradicted by his answer to your question, and I don't see a contradiction anymore. The argument you're giving above seems different than the one I was referring to (see 311). There's been a misunderstanding somewhere...

Are you talking about the difference in tone between 57 and 102? Because a lot happened in between those posts besides your suggestion, enough to cause the change of tone, I think, and she did use new posts in the second argument. I'm not sure I understand the "manipulation of reality" part.

I could go into this, but my basic answer is - I see it as a silly thing to go into because I want today's conversation to be about Surye and I want to get him lynched, not Hua.

If you really want this conversation please justify the purpose of it. if it's to scumhunt Hua then i don't care. Go read stuff yourself.
If it's to figure out your own read on Hua then, again, i don't care. Go read stuff.
If it's to scumhunt me then I'm willing to discuss it because at least it has a point.

Other than that - let's lynch Surye.

[vonflare]

so, why again are you voting surge? because your statement, that scum would leave you alive to lynch hua, means that you think that hua is town. please explain this?

I don't understand how that confuses you - I read what you're asking and feel it makes sense on the surface. Here's what i hear;

1. Thor has two suspects.
2. He suspects him being alive suggests one is more likely to be town.
3. He is voting the other suspect.

Which part of that is confusing you specifically?

The part that is confusing is that in a previous post (which is in day 2 - cant look for it right now) you argued that hua is very scummy. but your argument against surye is based on the alleged fact that HUA IS TOWN.

let me paraphrase: thor says "surye is scum because it would be a scum move to leave me alive in the hopes of me tunneling hua and getting a mislynch." and yet you are also saying "hua is scum". so you contradict yourself because the argument you present against surye is based on your assumtion that hua is town. yet you also say that hua is scum.

have I explained it in enough detail for you?

anyways, I will have very limited access to the computer, as this is exam week. I will probobly not be able to participate very much until Febuary 1st. thanks.

[vonflare]

@Salmon and @vonflare: Would you mind elaborating a bit on your Surye votes? Since a major reason we're wagoning Surye right now is that the Karlos wagon was scummy, and the Karlos wagon was scummy partially because people weren't discussing, you're being a bit hypocritical. Both of your reasons are "I kinda thought he was scum yesterday" and neither of you said that much about him yesterday.

well, a major factor was (assuming hua is town) surye commented on thor not tunneling hua anymore. it would be a scum move to assume that thor would continue to tunnel a townie, in hopes of getting a mislynch.

@Thor: I was rereading and fact-checking in response to hua. I'm reading vonflare's response in 43 to your question as a yes, so he did think hua complimented and voted someone in the same post. I noticed that hua's interpretation of vonflare's post in 57 (her response to the first two quotes) doesn't directly contradict this.

Please look at the language used there and the language used later in expressing her opinion about my actions.
It starts with 'couldn't you see this' and ends with 'it's scummy Thor didn't see it this way' and the shift happens in direct correlation to me suggesting she, herself, is scummy. I find that scummy and I find that an inherent manipulation of reality for intentional purposes.

that is where you call hua scum. it is even on the same page you assume she is town, mind you. strange...

let's get more information on this thor character. he looks pretty shifty to me...

[vonflare]

some more quotes from thor that contradict each other

Spoiler:

That is not the logic, why couldn't you be scum, if she could vote you with impunity and without consequence. She wouldn't have had you lynched but could show the vote was there. You're make a illogical jump there.

If her end goal was always to hammer Karlos-town, why take the side adventure at all?

there you do it again. you call hua scum.

so, why again are you voting surge? because your statement, that scum would leave you alive to lynch hua, means that you think that hua is town. please explain this?

I don't understand how that confuses you - I read what you're asking and feel it makes sense on the surface. Here's what i hear;

1. Thor has two suspects.
2. He suspects him being alive suggests one is more likely to be town.
3. He is voting the other suspect.

Which part of that is confusing you specifically?

and yet here, you accuse surye of being scum. but your argument rests on hua being town.

1. Thor has two suspects.
2. He suspects him being alive suggests one is more likely to be town.

that right there is saying surye is scum. so what is your argument again? because it CANT be that 'hua town tunneling assumtion' thing, because that would be contradicting yourself IN THE SAME POST. karlos did that too, and he got lynched...

[vonflare]

oh yes, and VOTE: thor

[huateasa]

I prod dodged too many times and didn't even get a post in last night. I've been busy and don't have the time to devote to this game. Sorry everyone.

mod replace me please

[GuyInFreezer]

I prod dodged too many times and didn't even get a post in last night. I've been busy and don't have the time to devote to this game. Sorry everyone.

mod replace me please

Noted.

[Thor665]

The part that is confusing is that in a previous post (which is in day 2 - cant look for it right now) you argued that hua is very scummy. but your argument against surye is based on the alleged fact that HUA IS TOWN.

No. It is not and never has been, it is based on Karlos being town.

have I explained it in enough detail for you?

No. You should explain it more or clarify where I actually said it was part of my case.

that is where you call hua scum. it is even on the same page you assume she is town, mind you. strange...

I don't think you and I agree on what 'assuming someone is town' looks like.
If this made sense for my case on Surye I wouldn't have voted Surye until after this point - but I voted him prior to it.

[awesomeusername]

Bummer, I was looking forward to Salmon's and hua's input.

@vonflare:

1) Thor's primary reason for voting Surye is in 427, not 435. Notice that by 435 he was already voting Surye.
2) hua is more likely to be town than Surye =/= hua is town. (That's a "not equals" sign.)

Also, why would town-Surye not question Thor's shift of focus?

@Thor: Any particular reason you're so sure of Surye over Ulysses or vonflare? You seem to not want to look around more. Also, @465, it's kind of all 3 reasons. The fact that I can't understand your argument makes me wonder how good of an argument it really is. But yes, let's focus on the topic at hand.

Hmm, I was going vote Surye now since vonflare unvoted him, but I kinda like my case on Ulysses and want him to respond.

[Thor665]

@Thor: Any particular reason you're so sure of Surye over Ulysses or vonflare? You seem to not want to look around more.

I sort of feel we looked around Day 1, that is the purpose of Day 1. If you came out of that Day with no opinion on even half the player list then you did yourself a scumhunting disfavor.
Today is about reacting to the information gained from the lynch and the night actions.

Karlos was town.
Scum decided to kill Teedy.
They opted not to target me either due to fear of Doc/Jailkeeper or due to desire to see Hua lynched (place your bets)

I will clarify, that if I am right about Surye (and I'm pretty sure I am) then any town protective role *better* protect me tonight, or there will be rage at endgame. Catching scum off that bad Karlos wagon easily earns me a night of protection.

As far as Ulysses and VonFlare.
As I recall yesterday I called VonFlare town...that's sort of a big reason not to choose him I would think. The worst I can say about him today is how pedantic and defensive he is being towards me and Surye respectively. I find that pretty sketchy, but the only way it is sketchy is if I'm right about Surye, so I certainly wish to lynch Surye first.
As far as Ulysses goes - I find that slot bad, and think his reasons for voting Karlos were worse...that said, he was the only one (of a few) who was actually willing to sit around and try to explain to me why he thought he was right about Karlos. That is a town mindset, he believed the manure he was shoveling, whereas most others got quiet about it - that grants him a reprieve for the day and I'll revisit the question later.