Open 544: Tit for Tat (Game Over)

[Sakura Hana]

Vote Count 2.06

Ankamius (3) - MTD, Tlactha C, Titus [L-2]

Tlachta C (2) - Lorantheceae. thenewearth

Not Voting (4) - Ankamius, Saki, Ibarra, Hopkirk

With 9 Alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Please let me know if you see any mistakes.

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2014-02-15 20:32:00)

[Hopkirk]

I should read this.

[Titus]

Sorry, you misspoke or are lying. You talked about me not liking a Tla lynch in 644, and then you suggest the same "it" might be a compromise lynch. The compromise should be referring to the same thing I wasn't liking.

[MTD]

Sorry, you misspoke or are lying. You talked about me not liking a Tla lynch in 644, and then you suggest the same "it" might be a compromise lynch. The compromise should be referring to the same thing I wasn't liking.

You are right, that was ambiguous, the "that" referred to lynching Ank being a compromise for the people voting Tla in case they don't get a lynch on Tla.

[Titus]

Ok. You passed and are probtown. Scum would have attacked me.

[Titus]

I should read this.

You should and then choose who you support.

[Ankamius]

Pedit: Eh? Are you saying you

want

to get lynched instead of Tla???

Did you read the game?

Loran pushed my slot hardcore throughout the first day and knew going into day 2 that pushing me wouldn't be particularly hard for him. So what does he do? He links Tlachta C to me and starts hardcore pushing for her death over mine. This move literally makes no sense unless he's scum trying to fling shit around.

And after that comment, I'm starting to wonder about you.

Wow, what is this. Loran are you seriously thinking that a case on Tlachta C is going to prevail over a case on me?

k

I'll read into Mala... eventually.

^ scum lovin that a townie is being linked to him

I'm just going to assume this was a joke.

[Titus]

If you think one of them is scum why aren't you vote?

[Ankamius]

Because I'm not done yet. I'm mostly just responding to stuff first because it's easier.

[Ankamius]

/me cracks knuckles

So here's Ankamius' entrance

Ugh, I'm too exhausted to properly analyze this right now. I got through page 2 and started looking rather than seeing.

BTW the reads I did manage to get just from those two pages are Flames of Disaster, Captain Picard, and

Lincolm

thenewearth as leaning scum. We'll see what that turns into when my brain decides to start functioning again.

UNVOTE: Tlachta C

He unvotes Tla only to call her null scum and then scum later, pay attention to his superficial scummy reasons:

Alright, I read up to page 7 and made notes. I'll go fully into detail when I'm done reading, but here's my general reads so far:

Scum: Flames of Disaster, Captain Picard, thenewearth
Null-Scum: Tlachta C, MTD
Null-Town: Malakittens, Saki, Ibarra
Town: No Stone Unturned, Lorantheceae, Hopkirk

Tlachta C post #199 - I find the second point very interesting, because Saki has done about the same of both and yet you don't have a scumread on him. I will keep this point in mind if one of you flip and turn up scum.

------------------------------

READS TIME

Scum: Flames of Disaster, Captain Picard, thenewearth, Tlachta C
Null-Scum: MTD, Loranthaceae
Null-Town: Malakittens, Saki, Ibarra
Town: No Stone Unturned, Hopkirk

This statement is just enough to warrant a future bus on Tla, even promoting her from null-scum to scum, but apparently not enough to vote her. It's a scummy post because he knew Mala was scum and that he can use this line of though later on, but he thought no one would notice that it doesn't make sense as town to promote a scumread based on a future flip.

Okay, here's the problems with this logic.

1. You used my path of unvoting Tlachta C -> nullscum read on that slot -> scum read on my slot as your case for this section. Only... two of those are nonsense.
1a. You're trying to use an immediate unvote after a replacement as a point. ...why?
1b. You completely ignored the other point I made on Tlachta C... which provided the nullscum read.

2. Your reason for that post being scummy is equally nonsense because the idea that a Mala flip helping this is ridiculous. You know as well as I do that trying to push this point pretty much ever outside of a Tlachta C or Saki scumflip is absurd, so a Malakittens scumflip only means that it will continue to be absurd for perpetuity.

Also, I'm a fan of not revealing everything I have right away. There's another point on Tlachta C I noted in my head but didn't put into words. I feel better about my reads when I get pressured about things I say. That's one reason I'm vague with a lot of my points. If you want a hint of what this point is, it's in this post.

If Tla would've been lynched or shot he would've used it to give Mala a townread. But since Mala flipped scum he would use it to bus Tla at some point if necessary and have enough towncred to easily make it through lylo.

Um. You

do

realize that the association tell was between Tlachta C and Saki... right? Using that point to link Tlachta C and Malakittens together would be kind of really retarded.

I also find it very interesting that your entire focus was on trying to use a single point linking Tlachta C and me together (from my end) and linking Tlachta C together with Malakittens. If you were seriously trying to make a case for Tlachta+Ank+Mala scumteam, you would've put a lot more focus on bussing from both ends. My bet is you didn't include anything about bussing from Tlachta's end because it would've been ridiculous to assume that her blatantly sheeping you as the only reason for voting me basically ever in D1 could be seen as bussing instead of just trying to buddy a townie for towncred.

#605 is basically another bad attempt at trying to link us two together. You're basically saying that Tlachta C was hardcore sheeping you with really bad reasons... which is just as indicative of scum on town as scum on scum. Your point on scum tending to spread out votes is kind of pointless since you even admitted later in #610 that Malakittens never even voted for the entire day phase.

You've also failed to address basically any of my points except for a bland dismissal on my conclusion.

You have no real basis for Tlachta C and me bussing each other. All the links in this case are shoddy at best, nonsense at worst.
Your push on Tlachta C over me makes no sense. The only two significant scenarios I can see happening is you are town going full retard or scum trying to give more leg room for yourself. Trying to justify two targets for a lynch today instead of hardcore pushing for the person who you would have little trouble getting lynched with little to no risk is ridiculous. It's making me think that you know your case is garbage (hence why you only dismissed it and didn't disprove it) and want to draw attention away from that case with another one.

His associations with Malakittens also work

exactly

the same as the ones he's attacking Tlachta C for. Only with him, he doesn't have the pseudo-tunneling going for him that makes Tlachta C more town with a Mala-flip.

Vote: Loranthaceae

[Ankamius]

For the record, Mala association hunt didn't come up with a whole lot more than I mentioned.

[Sakura Hana]

Vote Count 2.07

Ankamius (3) - MTD, Tlactha C, Titus [L-2]

Tlachta C (2) - Lorantheceae. thenewearth
Lorantheceae (1) - Ankamius

Not Voting (3) - Saki, Ibarra, Hopkirk

With 9 Alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Please let me know if you see any mistakes

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2014-02-15 20:32:00)

[Ibarra]

I should read this.

Yeah I should probably hurry up with my reread too, but I burnt out really quickly this time.

Who should I sheep atm?

[Titus]

UNVOTE: Ank

I need to reread the sections Ank is talking about. I was fully expected scumAnk to jump on Tla. Given the fact that didn't happen and Ank's defense sounding plausible until a reread, I am going to pause for a moment and watch what happens.

Tla and Ank could be scum together but that means I am wrong in interpreting what I think is a semi-obvious conclusion.

Ibarra, don't sheep. Investigate.

[Ibarra]

Yeah sorry. This week is a low energy, high stress week for me.
I'll get to it once I get motivation again. Hopefully soon. At the most by this weekend.

[Ibarra]

These two week deadlines are too long TBH. Shorter deadlines create a more sense of urgency = more motivation.

[Titus]

Well, maybe we can work together. I am fairly lost. You appear to be as well. Why don't we put together a specific list of questions that should ideally be answerred on reread? This will help me see if you are scum like Tla believes or town like my PoE tells me.

[Titus]

Ibarra, you'd totally love sc2mafia then if you got past the wacky roles. 24 to 48 hour deadlines.

[Tlachta C]

ya I think my scumdar needs some tinkering doing to it bc that post by Anka seemed quite townish

but Loran seems too insane to be scum

Mm I think I need to reread some things, sadly

meanwhile

Vote tne

Bc your plan is completely logical and cannot fail!

[Tlachta C]

I should read this.

You should and then choose who you support.

what did you mean here Titus?

[Titus]

I meant I am not going to let a late arrival into the day say nothing and get away with it. Choose who he supports as town and who he thinks is scum.

[thenewearth]

ya I think my scumdar needs some tinkering doing to it bc that post by Anka seemed quite townish

but Loran seems too insane to be scum

Mm I think I need to reread some things, sadly

meanwhile

Vote tne

Bc your plan is completely logical and cannot fail!

Dat OMGUS though

really

[MTD]

Well this just got hell of a lot more complicated.

Short summary: tla acting somewhat scummy, Ank has an at least well thought through defense, i'll definitely have to reread both his and Loran's post and compare. Later.

Yeah, unsure about Tla, I had her as pretty solid town earlier, so I won't easily come to scumread her, but I am not townreading her that much now.

[Loranthaceae]

1. You used my path of unvoting Tlachta C -> nullscum read on that slot -> scum read on my slot as your case for this section.

What slots. Don't make it seem complicated you scummy fuck acting like a moron. You unvoted Tla ->

you

had a nullscum on

Tla

->

you

had a scum read on

Tla

1a. You're trying to use an immediate unvote after a replacement as a point. ...why?

Who said anything about

immediate

? And I was showing the progression of your read on Tla and how it augmented (with scummy reasons) in relation to how unlikely it would be for Tla to get lynched. That's it, now you're trying to take it apart and you're saying I'm saying it's scummy you unvoted upon replacing in. You die today.

1b. You completely ignored the other point I made on Tlachta C... which provided the nullscum read.

Because it wasn't relevant for the core argument which was to follow and which still stands despite your army of straw men.

Also, I'm a fan of not revealing everything I have right away. There's another point on Tlachta C I noted in my head but didn't put into words. I feel better about my reads when I get pressured about things I say. That's one reason I'm vague with a lot of my points. If you want a hint of what this point is, it's in this post.

Nanana if you're going to promote from nullscum to scum you better have a good reason OR you're going to specify that with that particular person you have something in mind that you're not going to share OR you say something like gut. You on the other hand based it on a future flip. And now you're saying that the content of that statement isn't .. I don't even know let's just take one straw man at a time.

Um. You do realize that the association tell was between Tlachta C and Saki... right? Using that point to link Tlachta C and Malakittens together would be kind of really retarded.

Yeah here it is, upon closer look this seems to me like a gigantic slip. The post about Saki and Mala was your basis of promoting your Tla read.. let's look at it again:

Tlachta C post #199 - I find the second point very interesting, because Saki has done about the same of both and yet you don't have a scumread on him. I will keep this point in mind if one of you flip and turn up scum.

Note for everyone reading this he (Anka) is talking about how Tla is scrutinizing (having a scumread on) Mala for inactivity but not Saki.

I said earlier that it's because he (Anka) wants to distance himself from Tla as much as possible by calling her scum. BUT since he knows Mala is scum and Saki is town future flips will point towards the fact that Tla is town because she was discriminating, seemingly in scum's disadvantage. So no way does that argument even qualify for a real reason to lynch Tla and he wouldn't have - that is what he knew because he had the extra info to work it out. Because Tla is his partner and distancing from her without putting her in real danger is what he wants, and it looks nice on that catchup post.

Back to what you said here Anka

You do realize that the association tell

, what does that association tell doing in your post looking like a reason to promote your scumread on Tla, is the real question here. You are acknowledging that it is a tell. It's a towntell isn't it? Titus even says that Mala was afraid of Tla so it worked. That was the whole point of your statement about Tla in your catchup post, to get Tla some towncred .. so now we know.

Why don't people take my discovery of this blatant scumplay seriously?

Once again for the easily distracted, It's day1 and Anka replaces in, Tla isn't in any danger of being lynched -> Anka promotes his null-scum Tla read to a scumread because Tla is entertaining a vague scumread on Mala but not on Saki = this looks like it's based on a future hypothetical flip for us townfolk and it doesn't make sense for us.
It's day2, Mala is dead and the connection between Anka and Tla is being debated, Tla is under scrutiny -> Anka is deploying a series of straw men to save his skin and he claims his post about Tla scumreading Mala but not Saki is an association tell between Tla and Saki, not Tla and Mala or even Tla and himself, noOooo

I also find it very interesting that your entire focus was on trying to use a single point linking Tlachta C and me together (from my end) and linking Tlachta C together with Malakittens. If you were seriously trying to make a case for Tlachta+Ank+Mala scumteam,

Oh so you're telling me how I should've made a case on you, that I wasn't serious about it. It's not like you bothered to do much talking on Day1 which is strange considering how effective you were in damaging town (strongarming a mislynch - trying to subtlely pin it on me by saying my last documented read on Flames was a scumread... try to read the following post where I explained what I did there again - that was just some random names to get Hopkirk to open up so I can attack him again - oh and getting Picard to claim, also very nice)

you would've put a lot more focus on bussing from both ends. My bet is you didn't include anything about bussing from Tlachta's end because it would've been ridiculous to assume that her blatantly sheeping you as the only reason for voting me basically ever in D1

Tla came up with some reasons but if she was town she would've called you out for that very post I was referring to, and how fucking illogical it is to promote a scumread like that. She didn't because then she would put you in a lynchable position.

could be seen as bussing instead of just trying to buddy a townie for towncred.

well yeah, she just threw them half ass reasons in there to get some towncred should the vig shoot.

#605 is basically another bad attempt at trying to link us two together. You're basically saying that Tlachta C was hardcore sheeping you with really bad reasons... which is just as indicative of scum on town as scum on scum. Your point on scum tending to spread out votes is kind of pointless since you even admitted later in #610 that Malakittens never even voted for the entire day phase.

You've also failed to address basically any of my points except for a bland dismissal on my conclusion.

You have no real basis for Tlachta C and me bussing each other. All the links in this case are shoddy at best, nonsense at worst.
Your push on Tlachta C over me makes no sense. The only two significant scenarios I can see happening is you are town going full retard or scum trying to give more leg room for yourself. Trying to justify two targets for a lynch today instead of hardcore pushing for the person who you would have little trouble getting lynched with little to no risk is ridiculous. It's making me think that you know your case is garbage (hence why you only dismissed it and didn't disprove it) and want to draw attention away from that case with another one.

His associations with Malakittens also work exactly the same as the ones he's attacking Tlachta C for. Only with him, he doesn't have the pseudo-tunneling going for him that makes Tlachta C more town with a Mala-flip.

Vote: Loranthaceae

Defensiveness, bla blabla OMGUS.

[Sakura Hana]

Bump