Open 544: Tit for Tat (Game Over)

[Sakura Hana]

Vote Count 2.08

Tlachta C (2) - Lorantheceae. thenewearth
Ankamius (1) - MTD
Lorantheceae (1) - Ankamius
thenewearth (1) - Tlachta C

Not Voting (4) - Saki, Ibarra, Hopkirk, Titus

With 9 Alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Please let me know if you see any mistakes

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2014-02-15 20:32:00)

[Tlachta C]

I havent had a chance to do the reread yet

but loran I was wondering if I flip town would that stop your scumread on anka?

[Ankamius]

1. You used my path of unvoting Tlachta C -> nullscum read on that slot -> scum read on my slot as your case for this section.

What slots. Don't make it seem complicated you scummy fuck acting like a moron. You unvoted Tla ->

you

had a nullscum on

Tla

->

you

had a scum read on

Tla

1a. You're trying to use an immediate unvote after a replacement as a point. ...why?

Who said anything about

immediate

? And I was showing the progression of your read on Tla and how it augmented (with scummy reasons) in relation to how unlikely it would be for Tla to get lynched. That's it, now you're trying to take it apart and you're saying I'm saying it's scummy you unvoted upon replacing in. You die today.

...

Yes, that's what I meant. I have no idea how I managed to screw up the wording like that.

However, this doesn't really change anything. Your second point is basically defeated by your first point, since the unvote is not worth bringing up at all unless you're going to use it as part of your case. Unvoting someone upon replacement is just about one of the nullest tells I can think of. I'm mostly trying to figure out why it's relevant in any way.

1b. You completely ignored the other point I made on Tlachta C... which provided the nullscum read.

Because it wasn't relevant for the core argument which was to follow and which still stands despite your army of straw men.

Then why would you ever bring up the unvote -> nullscum -> scum path. Focus on your main point and leave irrelevant crap out if it's irrelevant.

Also, I'm a fan of not revealing everything I have right away. There's another point on Tlachta C I noted in my head but didn't put into words. I feel better about my reads when I get pressured about things I say. That's one reason I'm vague with a lot of my points. If you want a hint of what this point is, it's in this post.

Nanana if you're going to promote from nullscum to scum you better have a good reason OR you're going to specify that with that particular person you have something in mind that you're not going to share OR you say something like gut. You on the other hand based it on a future flip. And now you're saying that the content of that statement isn't .. I don't even know let's just take one straw man at a time.

If you ask nicely, I might tell you what I find scummy about that post.

Um. You do realize that the association tell was between Tlachta C and Saki... right? Using that point to link Tlachta C and Malakittens together would be kind of really retarded.

Yeah here it is, upon closer look this seems to me like a gigantic slip. The post about Saki and Mala was your basis of promoting your Tla read.. let's look at it again:

Tlachta C post #199 - I find the second point very interesting, because Saki has done about the same of both and yet you don't have a scumread on him. I will keep this point in mind if one of you flip and turn up scum.

Note for everyone reading this he (Anka) is talking about how Tla is scrutinizing (having a scumread on) Mala for inactivity but not Saki.

I said earlier that it's because he (Anka) wants to distance himself from Tla as much as possible by calling her scum. BUT since he knows Mala is scum and Saki is town future flips will point towards the fact that Tla is town because she was discriminating, seemingly in scum's disadvantage. So no way does that argument even qualify for a real reason to lynch Tla and he wouldn't have - that is what he knew because he had the extra info to work it out. Because Tla is his partner and distancing from her without putting her in real danger is what he wants, and it looks nice on that catchup post.

Back to what you said here Anka

You do realize that the association tell

, what does that association tell doing in your post looking like a reason to promote your scumread on Tla, is the real question here. You are acknowledging that it is a tell. It's a towntell isn't it? Titus even says that Mala was afraid of Tla so it worked. That was the whole point of your statement about Tla in your catchup post, to get Tla some towncred .. so now we know.

Why don't people take my discovery of this blatant scumplay seriously?

Once again for the easily distracted, It's day1 and Anka replaces in, Tla isn't in any danger of being lynched -> Anka promotes his null-scum Tla read to a scumread because Tla is entertaining a vague scumread on Mala but not on Saki = this looks like it's based on a future hypothetical flip for us townfolk and it doesn't make sense for us.
It's day2, Mala is dead and the connection between Anka and Tla is being debated, Tla is under scrutiny -> Anka is deploying a series of straw men to save his skin and he claims his post about Tla scumreading Mala but not Saki is an association tell between Tla and Saki, not Tla and Mala or even Tla and himself, noOooo

Now you're just ignoring the fact that I just

said

there's another reason Tlachta C got upgraded to a scumread. I guess dismissing it entirely and assuming it never happened counts as a point in a case now.

Association tells are very common things. That's one that stuck out to me because it was incredibly weird that she would give preferential treatment to one lurker over another when they've done basically the same thing. It had very little to nothing to do with my read on Tlachta.

I don't understand either way how it's not obvious that it was an association tell between Tla and Saki. You're trying so hard to make it into an association tell between myself and Tla or Tla and Mala when I basically state that I'll consider it is Tlachta C or Saki flip scum. Trying to promote Tlachta C town based on that point is... really dumb, like I said before.

I also find it very interesting that your entire focus was on trying to use a single point linking Tlachta C and me together (from my end) and linking Tlachta C together with Malakittens. If you were seriously trying to make a case for Tlachta+Ank+Mala scumteam,

Oh so you're telling me how I should've made a case on you, that I wasn't serious about it. It's not like you bothered to do much talking on Day1 which is strange considering how effective you were in damaging town (strongarming a mislynch - trying to subtlely pin it on me by saying my last documented read on Flames was a scumread... try to read the following post where I explained what I did there again - that was just some random names to get Hopkirk to open up so I can attack him again - oh and getting Picard to claim, also very nice)

Okay.

1. Pretty much everyone was strongarming Zekrom's lynch. Trying to pin it on me alone is ridiculous.
2. You will have to explain where this "following post where I explained what I did there again" is, because the next post you made after the post I made that point in is your shit dismissal of my entire case.
3. Picard claimed when he had TWO votes on him. Do you seriously think anyone would have expected that?

you would've put a lot more focus on bussing from both ends. My bet is you didn't include anything about bussing from Tlachta's end because it would've been ridiculous to assume that her blatantly sheeping you as the only reason for voting me basically ever in D1

Tla came up with some reasons but if she was town she would've called you out for that very post I was referring to, and how fucking illogical it is to promote a scumread like that. She didn't because then she would put you in a lynchable position.

You know... like death tunneling me for half the day.

If I had been pressured to explain that, I'd almost certainly have a townread on the person who applied the pressure. What you're doing is trying to strongarm that into a case no matter what I say in response.

could be seen as bussing instead of just trying to buddy a townie for towncred.

well yeah, she just threw them half ass reasons in there to get some towncred should the vig shoot.

So you're tunneling.

#605 is basically another bad attempt at trying to link us two together. You're basically saying that Tlachta C was hardcore sheeping you with really bad reasons... which is just as indicative of scum on town as scum on scum. Your point on scum tending to spread out votes is kind of pointless since you even admitted later in #610 that Malakittens never even voted for the entire day phase.

You've also failed to address basically any of my points except for a bland dismissal on my conclusion.

You have no real basis for Tlachta C and me bussing each other. All the links in this case are shoddy at best, nonsense at worst.
Your push on Tlachta C over me makes no sense. The only two significant scenarios I can see happening is you are town going full retard or scum trying to give more leg room for yourself. Trying to justify two targets for a lynch today instead of hardcore pushing for the person who you would have little trouble getting lynched with little to no risk is ridiculous. It's making me think that you know your case is garbage (hence why you only dismissed it and didn't disprove it) and want to draw attention away from that case with another one.

His associations with Malakittens also work exactly the same as the ones he's attacking Tlachta C for. Only with him, he doesn't have the pseudo-tunneling going for him that makes Tlachta C more town with a Mala-flip.

Vote: Loranthaceae

Defensiveness, bla blabla OMGUS.

Prove it. Every dismissal you post makes me more sure I'm right.

[Titus]

Through page 7 of the reread. I am seeing a lot of awkward interactions between Malakittens and Saki.

First, a naked vote, which is properly null. Then he gives Celoki and Mala townpoints for reading correctly. Yet, Saki doesn't unvote. Then Mala defends Saki saying that's how she plays the game.

Loran's never push the lurker/newbies stance bothers me. It is not time, but pressure that causes people to crack.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Tne

[Titus]

Tne's content isn't as big today, but I don't necessarily see why he's being wagoned. Naked votings don't give me any reasoning to figure out. The most troubling thing is tne's push on Picard, who is obvtown cuz dead.

Even then he votes Tla bc he wants to hear more. Yet, there's plenty, like Saki, who have given less.

I am surprised Tla voted tne over Ibarra though.

VOTE: tne

@Tla, was the Ibarra scumread dependent on Ankscum?

[Loranthaceae]

Prove it. Every dismissal you post makes me more sure I'm right.

Try to write less crap if you want me to respond to every feeble strawgrabbing attempts. I'm not some secretary that has to deal with the load of bull you try to paint as defense, I'll say just enough to make people understand why you are scum.

You call me scum for it, your vote on me is ridiculous. From the moment I read Cele as scummy up to know I haven't had a shred of doubt that you are scum,I don't need to compile a perfect case. I've investigated associations and I'm letting people see how probable they are.

Insinuating that stuff like this needs a reply:

You have no real basis for Tlachta C and me bussing each other

is just you running out of sane things to say. I have sufficiently explained the contrary over and over a couple of times now.

It's making me think that you know your case is garbage (hence why you only dismissed it and didn't disprove it) and want to draw attention away from that case with another one.

I want to draw attention .. what is there to comment on this monkeypiss?
I'm not obliged to keep up making long ass posts, justifying any cases. I'm pretty sure you're scum and I'm doing my best to make people pay attention to it, you somehow find a way to paint it scummy and you're voting me. I'm just not willing to believe that you are this bad as town.

So you're tunneling

Why aren't you at least making it look like you are scumhunting? What the fuck are your reads?

Now you're just ignoring the fact that I just said there's another reason Tlachta C got upgraded to a scumread. I guess dismissing it entirely and assuming it never happened counts as a point in a case now.

You didn't say there's another reason, you just said you don't say everything and hinted that there might be one? But again I'm the scummy one.

If you ask nicely, I might tell you what I find scummy about that post.

It's not hard to come up with something now, is it? Please mister scumfuck, tell me.

Then why would you ever bring up the unvote -> nullscum -> scum path. Focus on your main point and leave irrelevant crap out if it's irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant because it connects to what I said about Cele bussing Tla just before replacing out. I think the unvote and the strange scumread progression stems from you having inherited Cele's clumsy noobishness. This is a subjective assessment but it's in no way irrelevant.

Why are you calling me scum, what are your reads?

1. Pretty much everyone was strongarming Zekrom's lynch. Trying to pin it on me alone is ridiculous.
2. You will have to explain where this "following post where I explained what I did there again" is, because the next post you made after the post I made that point in is your shit dismissal of my entire case.
3. Picard claimed when he had TWO votes on him. Do you seriously think anyone would have expected that?

1. You came in as a replacement and as I said before you had a fresh perspective on the situation. Town would've managed to start scumhunting and finding real alignment-indicative reasons to vote and scummy targets to pressure, but you're scum so you clung onto easy targets.

You insinuated that they weren't easy targets, they were illegitimate targets that's for sure. You are trying to blend in saying that others were just as vocal about their lynch (doesn't that make them easy targets). You were trying to make it look like I condone it when I clearly didn't, even argumented against it saying that noobs are better left alive because they will slip eventually. And I doubt you didn't catch the post where I explain to MTD that my supposed NSU, Flames, Picard constellation was just a break to get more momentum on my next attack on Cele, but you still made it look like I want that lynch and that Flames/Zekrom was a universal scumread.

I believe Zekrom had a scumread on you so it makes sense you pull every string to get rid of him.

2. ^this

3. You would've pushed it further if he hadn't claimed. And this concludes your disastrously shitty towncred.

I don't need to comment more on you, I trust you won't make it throught lylo which is enough for me. I'm focusing on the other scum.

@titus: saki doesnt look like scum, how bout helping me buss anka?

This is how noobscum slip up, it's a legit scumslip.

ya I think my scumdar needs some tinkering doing to it bc that post by Anka seemed quite townish

Why? Which points exactly? As I predicted you transitioned out of voting Anka, this is scummy as fuck plus OMGUS. You are noobscum and you scumslipped and you OMGUS'd; you're almost too scummy to be scum, but you're scum.

but loran I was wondering if I flip town would that stop your scumread on anka?

No. As I said I see numerous possibilities for Anka scum but the constellation with you I'm very sure about.

Vote tne
Bc your plan is completely logical and cannot fail!

Reads please.

Loran's never push the lurker/newbies stance bothers me. It is not time, but pressure that causes people to crack.

This is a horrendous misinterpretation. Go to your room titus and no cookies for a month.

[MTD]

Why did TNE just go to L-1?

[Titus]

Why did TNE just go to L-1?

He's at L minus 2. I think.


@Loran, I am grabbing the post that made me think that.

[Titus]

Not gonna lie to you Picard, I don't like your vote still hanging around on Flames. If you think he's a noob he'll slip eventually, why are you wasting time let's put Celebloki, Saki or Mala to L-1 until they produce something.

Not gonna lie to you Picard, I don't like your vote still hanging around on Flames. If you think he's a noob he'll slip eventually, why are you wasting time let's put Celebloki, Saki or Mala to L-1 until they produce something.

What the fuck.

I explained why I was keeping my vote on him, and you come and post that not 4 posts later?!

You didn't question anyone else on him, why is that?

Also, what do you mean, "He will slip eventually"?????

Why would you want me to voteone of those 3 you mentioned, they are all NULL or TOWNISH, IMO, Make a case for one of them. In the meantime...

VOTE: Unvote
Loranthaceae

Seriously, answer the 2 questions I proposed to you.

I understood your explanation, and I told you I didn't like it.

I questioned you because I saw you online and posting.

It makes no sense to push a noob further, it's like going all-out, instead you let them lounge and then come back again, fluctuating your aggression because chances are the longer they play the likelier they'll crack. How come you don't get that there's nothing to be gained from pressuring Flame atm?

I believe Celebloki is scum, which is why I'm voting him, because town just doesn't come in and be like 'oooh look at those two fighting, pass the popcorn'

I'm leaning scum on Mala as well. Gut, if you will.
And Saki is just pissing me off.

That's what makes me think you don't want to pressure newbies.

[MTD]

Why did TNE just go to L-1?

He's at L minus 2. I think.


@Loran, I am grabbing the post that made me think that.

I don't think so, currently Tla Hop and you are voting there, that's L-1.

[Titus]

Me, Hopkirk, Tla...who is the fourth?

[Sakura Hana]

You know you can request a vote count at any time if you want to clear any doubts and i'll get to it if i'm around

Vote Count 2.09

thenewearth (3) - Tlachta C, Hopkirk, Titus [L-2]

Tlachta C (2) - Lorantheceae. thenewearth
Ankamius (1) - MTD
Lorantheceae (1) - Ankamius

Not Voting (2) - Saki, Ibarra

With 9 Alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Please let me know if you see any mistakes.

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2014-02-15 20:32:00)

[Loranthaceae]

That's what makes me think you don't want to pressure newbies.

Well then read it again. I said pressure further, flames in particular. He had a strange way of expressing himself so pressuring him to death just then wasn't productive at all. And fluctuating aggression titus, how did you miss that part?

And it's fluctuating pressure over time that makes people crack, especially noobies.

If I hadn't found a solid scumread in Cele/Anka I would've pressured the lurkers more too.

[MTD]

Me, Hopkirk, Tla...who is the fourth?

Oh you're right, I somehow thought we were at lynch at 4...

[Titus]

That's what makes me think you don't want to pressure newbies.

Well then read it again. I said pressure further, flames in particular. He had a strange way of expressing himself so pressuring him to death just then wasn't productive at all. And fluctuating aggression titus, how did you miss that part?

And it's fluctuating pressure over time that makes people crack, especially noobies.

If I hadn't found a solid scumread in Cele/Anka I would've pressured the lurkers more too.

I bolded that section. By saying there's no point, you releived all the pressure. That gave Flames/Zekrom no incentive to comply and hindered us greatly.

Even now, it doesn't make sense. Your point was never pressure the newbies until a better suspect comes along.

[Loranthaceae]

I bolded that section. By saying there's no point, you releived all the pressure. That gave Flames/Zekrom no incentive to comply and hindered us greatly.

That pressure wasn't constructive at all. I wanted focus shifted from Flames to Cele/Anka instead.

Similar to people voting TNE now. How the fuck are people oblivious to the fact that Flames called TNE an excellent scumhunter, so we don't need to do shit except wait for TNE to either catch scum or not. If he doesn't we lynch/vig him .. it's that simple, make your life easier, use time to your advantage. Pressure Tla and Anka ffs, look how they're falling apart and they don't even have l-1 on them.

[Titus]

Tla is obvtown to me unless my conclusion is wrong, which I see no evidence to that effect. Town doesn't mean right. Flames had a high value of TNE based on his skills. If TNE had those skills, they should already be on display rather than waiting around to see them. So I am leaning towards Flames being wrong at the moment. If not, pressure is the way to draw out scums and scumhunters. Ank provided a decent defense when pressured. Why can't TNE if he's so good?

[Sakura Hana]

Vote Count 2.10

henewearth (3) - Tlachta C, Hopkirk, Titus [L-2]
Tlachta C (2) - Lorantheceae. thenewearth
Ankamius (1) - MTD
Lorantheceae (1) - Ankamius

Not Voting (2) - Saki, Ibarra

With 9 Alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Please let me know if you see any mistakes

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2014-02-15 20:32:00)

[Saki]

dodge

[Tlachta C]

Tne's content isn't as big today, but I don't necessarily see why he's being wagoned. Naked votings don't give me any reasoning to figure out. The most troubling thing is tne's push on Picard, who is obvtown cuz dead.

Even then he votes Tla bc he wants to hear more. Yet, there's plenty, like Saki, who have given less.

I am surprised Tla voted tne over Ibarra though.

VOTE: tne

@Tla, was the Ibarra scumread dependent on Ankscum?

sorta, i need to reassess stuff
which i will get done in 24 hours or less, if not then feel free to lynch me for being a terrible procrastinator!

[Tlachta C]

@titus: saki doesnt look like scum, how bout helping me buss anka?

This is how noobscum slip up, it's a legit scumslip.

Yes youre absolutely right :/
you see that anka, I scumslipped that I was bussing you!
good thing we have the big mean predator here to catch us out

ya I think my scumdar needs some tinkering doing to it bc that post by Anka seemed quite townish

Why? Which points exactly? As I predicted you transitioned out of voting Anka, this is scummy as fuck plus OMGUS. You are noobscum and you scumslipped and you OMGUS'd; you're almost too scummy to be scum, but you're scum.

dont forget about my hammer on zek :3

but loran I was wondering if I flip town would that stop your scumread on anka?

No. As I said I see numerous possibilities for Anka scum but the constellation with you I'm very sure about.

it should stop it. you're saying we're scumbuddies so if i flip town it should cause you to reassess
why Loran are you doing this deathtunnel and associations

Vote tne
Bc your plan is completely logical and cannot fail!

Reads please.

I havent had the time to do the reread i so badly wish i could so this will have to come a bit later, sorry

[Tlachta C]

I just had a crazy brain wave~ that loran and anka might be bussing each other

both of their cases on each other make sense, which has made it really hard to tell if its just two townies fighting, like Ive looked over their arguemnts and both attacks sound so very legit almost as if its the truth

that's why i sheeped loran yesterday bc i felt his case was soooo good, but maybe thats why he did it? its easy peasy to make a good case when its on your scumbud

and loran isnt voting anka today even though he says anka has many possible scumbuds and was so sure on him being scum yesterday :/

but maybe bc something happened last night this has given him hesitation on voting him today (anyone know what this was )

...or maybe I just need to get some sleep ~

[Loranthaceae]

I'd actually do that as scum, bus my partner like there's no tomorrow. Did it and got a perfect scum win. In that regard this game would be very similar to my newbie scum game.

Feel free to dig up similarities and try to get me lynched with meta if you're feeling bored. I can provide a good soundtrack for it, my fresh new mashup
I'm just gonna hang back and wait for you two to die. Expect nothing more than prod-dodge one-liners from now on.

[Titus]

Based on the setup and either both scum or bith town, I would say both town. Even if they had done it befire, being successful means 1 scum dealing with a vig and possible rolecop. I don't like the dichotomy though.

That is the reason why lurkers are bothering me.