Open 544: Tit for Tat (Game Over)

[MTD]

I really really want to say Titus and Lor but I p much know they aren't scum

Maybe Sakura?

but in all honesty
I want to hear more from Ibarra, Tsukasa, and Hopkirk before I answer that question.

It's been a long time, feel like saying something now?

[neil1113]

After 3 hours and 41 minutes, I'm done with my read through. I won't post all my reads, or lay out all the things I've made notes on considering well... 11 pages in Microsoft Office would probably be a dread to read right now. So I'm going to be as concise as possible, while still laying out what I've found:

Saki: Please, I think you're town. So I'm begging you, be active. I've ISO'd you several times, and had to reread through your posts multiple times. You have the ability to be great at this, you seem to be quite smart. I'm asking you, I don't care if you make a case against me if you wish, but please... be active. Don't kill this game with your inactiveness.

Titus: Stop talking about the vig. Period. I believe you're town, so act like it. If you want to discuss the logics of talking about the vig and how it benefits / does not benefit the town, we can do so without causing accusations. I will not say if I am the vig or not for two reasons. 1. If I am the vig, the scum wouldn't know. So if they target me at night, they have a 35% chance of getting it correctly, which seems really low to waste a kill on. 2. If I am not the vig, and the scum target me at night, at least the town still has their vig left. Let's be smart with what little weapons we have left.

Loran, I don't like you. I think it's your playing style, or your hypocrisy... it clashes a lot. But unfortunately, you're not one of my two scum reads. I can't wait to play in a game when you are though, I'd love to bury you and be the one responsible for your death. In (819) you talk about vig talk being anti-town, then in (820) you do the very thing you just said was anti-town. Since I don't think your scum, I have to consider you must just be stupid town. Work on that.

Here are my two scum-reads (sorry if it's not altogether and formatted nicely, I was writing my thoughts down as I went through 33 pages of non-sense):

1. Ibarra:
Within the first 14 pages, I notice Ibarra seems to be misleading already, trying to seem more wise then they appear to actually be. Quoting something like it's truth, when it's an opinion is not only misleading, but can be dangerous if people bite. (Post 5 compared to post 14). After seeing his post on 37, I had to sigh. It seems his playing style is just scummy, not his actual alignment. While it doesn't clear him from being scum, I'm going to have to change the way of judging his posts. Post 50, he contributes nothing but seems to push for the Town v. Town argument, adding fuel to the fire. Why? (p86) Still grasping for straws, but defending someone who seems to like you? Granted, I don't agree with my predecessors logic (posts 85 I believe), I still think your cover for her was unwarranted. (#310) Very uh... oppurtunistic post of yours there. (353) I can't hold in how scummy I think you are. Looking forward to you "try" and recap the game for me. (522) Not only did the post never come, you hammered. With little to no reasoning. (662) Fluff post. (664) Fluff... again. (665) You guessed it, fluff. You've done little to nothing to help the town out. You're "scum hunting" has been of little assistance at best, and you've served no purpose here except to wagon on the lynch candidates and keep your head low. Day 2 you've posted less and been less confrontational than Day 1, something scum would do if your partner just died and your numbers were cut... (712) before you try, no that was not an excuse. Exam's don't last two weeks.

-- Jon:
Ankamius makes a point that your mindset isn't making much sense, you're only response is to call it BS (738) so, rightfully so, Ank places a vote on you. You're response? (741) "You had bad calls reading up to page 7, so therefore the rest of your calls are invalid the rest of the game." - paraphrased. Then in (742) you soft-claim.

2. Lincolm:
I find it nerve-racking to see the vote count at post 22, and the sudden pull back in post 24 from Lincolm. I know it was the "RVS stage" of the game, yet it just doesn't sit right with me to see your name on a "wagon" and appear to be scared and pull your name back. He could truly have not realized he was on it, and the chances of that could be confirmed since he placed the first vote, but that's a moot fact for now imo. Post 41, he attempts to join another "wagon" without ever mentioning any others votes on them. He also in that post tries to grasp at air with his push at Flames. When there's already discussion, why try and change the path onto something less... informative? I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt, until you did it again (p54). Your post on 94, makes me curious if Celebloki would be your partner or not? (329) Reaching would be easy here, and you took it.

-- TNE:
Coming in for Lincolm at #223, and that was by far the most fluff filled and weakest introduction into a game I have ever read, with probably the worst reasoning I have seen in a long time. In #227 his reads, he mentions one of my scum reads as town, and then doesn't mention the other scum at all. (390) Yeah, you're willing to wagon either townie. Noted. (582) Don't act so heart broken over the flip... sigh, you weren't shocked because you knew before they flipped.

Hayate has posted little to nothing to address right now.




With that said, VOTE: Jon_h61. I appreciate the kind words, but I don't play "suck-up" in these games. You won't win me over by being good to me, but by being good to the town.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Hayate still.

So anything in hayete's case other than a little omgus mixed with a lot of "lurking is the biggest scum tell there is"?

[neil1113]

VOTE: Hayate still.

So anything in hayete's case other than a little omgus mixed with a lot of "lurking is the biggest scum tell there is"?

So Hayete is scum and flips scum, who's your 2nd read? And why?

[neil1113]

EBWOP: "Say Hayete is scum and flips scum after today's lynch, who would be your 2nd read? And why?"

[KingdomAces]

Vote Count 2.16

neil1113 (2) - Lorantheceae, Hayate Yagami
jon_h61 (2) - Ankamius, neil1113
Lorantheceae (2) - Titus, jon_h61
Hayate Yagami (1) - Hopkirk
Saki (1) - MTD

Not Voting (1) - Saki

With 9 Alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Please let me know if you see any mistakes

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2014-02-15 20:32:00)

[Saki]

I really really want to say Titus and Lor but I p much know they aren't scum

Maybe Sakura?

but in all honesty
I want to hear more from Ibarra, Tsukasa, and Hopkirk before I answer that question.

It's been a long time, feel like saying something now?

I'm back

holyfuck textwalls

notreadinglol

[Saki]

ok serious business

I like the replacements except for jon

and hopkirk is scum

[Loranthaceae]

As for claiming I am not the vig...well duh. If my reasoning was clear that I think Tla is the vig, then I cannot be.

Exactly, why did you figure it was a good idea to make that reasoning clear? You could've just re-evaluated your read by your lonesome and transition out of your protective attitude.

You figured out what I thought, so your first thought is to deliver the message to your scum mate and discredit your attacker.

I don't understand this.

AND there's something that still bothers me. Titus, if you thought Tla is the vig why do you think it's a good idea to call her town like that right at the start of Day2. Don't you think it attracts NKs? You claim to be VT so putting who you think is the vig out there like that doesn't make sense.

Who the fuck said I am claiming anything other than not vig.

Townreads attract NKs, yes, but at somepoint we need to narrow down who he scum can and cannot be. Good lord. Get off your fucking horse.

My bad. Regardless you rushing that townread like that, idk. If the scumteam isn't Tla/neil - Ankamius somehow then you're scum.
I'm obvtown btw. Get your head right.

Loran, I don't get it, how are you attacking Titus for saying he thinks [Tla]neil is the vig but then do basically the same with Ank?

and no, hammering off early doesn't make it impossible for Tla to be the vig, firstly, it is very well possible that she did not contemplate on shooting Mala before a nightly reread, secondly, at the point, I don't think you would necessarily have expected anything more to come from Mala anyway.
And thirdly, have you heard of people

not playing perfectly

?

Still, I don't get why you think the only possibilities for the slot are scum or vig, what's wrong about a simple VT? (or backup RC, for that matter)

You are beginning to piss me off stop acting scummy ffs. You should have enough data about me to stop questioning me with shit like this, you know I'm town by now.

First of all I've been saying that Anka is either scum or vig since day1, because the vig doesn't want to get shot so he'll keep a low profile and act scummy because of this.
Are we in some sort of quantum theory debate, this is an educated-guessing game, of course it doesn't make it IMPOSSIBLE but it's damn well improbable for Tla to be the vig. Tla was demanding content from Mala and it wasn't too late for her to supply it when she hammered. It's much more probable she/neil is scum and didn't want Mala to supply content, especially because she was against the Flame lynch. Brain activity, do you have it?

Not playing perfectly as a town vig? Impossible Vigs are flawless, it comes with the role.

Mmhhh let me look at that juicy neil wall now..

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Hayate still.

So anything in hayete's case other than a little omgus mixed with a lot of "lurking is the biggest scum tell there is"?

So Hayete is scum and flips scum, who's your 2nd read? And why?

Nobody as i haven't been putting any effort in or really reading much

[jon_h61]

@ Neil Are you seriously going to call 742 a soft claim?

I also think my actions prove that I listen to everything Ank says, I go back and check multiple times to see if what he is saying adds up or not. I did say that in our back and forth, when I was leaning heavily toward him being scum. Are you going to say he said something so scary to scum me that I just had to let up on him before I was found out? If so, could you give us an inkling of what it was?

Beside my expressing a desire to maybe compromise vote on your slot, can you maybe explain your not liking me? Maybe it's just me that you don't like, and has nothing to do with my alignment.

[Titus]

Saki, you are making it really hard not to death tunnel your ass and that's with obvscum Loran. Please give us something.

1) I didn't. I said I thought Tla was town for reasons I couldn't discuss. You pop on saying I believed Tla was the vig. That was accurate so I figured that was over.

2) You saw that I thought Tla was the vig. You could have said, look at your assumption, it's wrong due to XYZ reasons. Then, we've kept my educated belief out of the public eye and you accomplish your point. Yet, your first thought is to out my thought process to your scum buddy because you are in a lynch able position.

3) No, you're far from obvtown. Your reads suck and you insult everyone who disagrees with you. You are desperate for a lynch. The more you flail, with shitty cases, the less likely I am to follow you.

4) Let's see here, now Me, MTD, Ank and TLA are scum. No, more likely you are caught scum. Shut up and die.

[jon_h61]

^That bottom part is to Saki.

[Titus]

@neil, I never intended to talk about the vig. I just didn't want the vig to be put under any pressure to claim. I agree we need to be smart with what weapons we have left. :nod: If we get lucky enough and lynch the rolecop today, the scum team will essentially be boned unless they make perfect kills. So aggressive and smart is the best play here.

I think I may really need to review the Ibarra slot. Both you and Tla strongly agree with that slot being scum. I know you're both one slot but stop it on jon. 742 is not a softclaim of anything. Jon is probably not scum.

[MTD]

you know I'm town by now.

Oh, do I?

First of all I've been saying that Anka is either scum or vig since day1, because the vig doesn't want to get shot so he'll keep a low profile and act scummy because of this.

low profile =/= scummy, at least not in itself. Also, that is true for every PR, not just the vig, isn't it?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lor
yeah, I know, I am scummy and stuff.

[Loranthaceae]

Wow, neil saying we shouldn't talk about the vig and then talks about the chances of him being the vig. Hilarious PR hunting. Condescending his attacker, myeah I do it too but constructively like this:
Titus you can't be helped. I'm going to fuck with you until you get to your senses starting immediately. Tell me more about your delusions about me being scum and why shouldn't I have a scumread on you? You've been saying I don't want to push lurkers or noobs. You've been saying Ank's defense is good, holy fuck. You read Tla as town because she might be the vig, then I explain why she can't and then you come up with this great idea that you should claim not to be the vig then blame it on me, then blame it on me for saying it was wrong. Then blame me for having misinterpreted you claiming VT which is about the only thing that is legitimately bad on my part which is pretty much the only time you get emotional, as if to signal that this is the only time your accusation is truthful.

P-edit lol didn't want the vig to claim. Like the vig is going to claim just because I say Tla is not the vig wtf.

Oh yeah MTD. I got you.

Titus, MTD scumteam. HOoooray.
But seriously let's lynch neil.

[MTD]

Tla was demanding content from Mala

Ehrm, the last time Tla said something of Mala not doing much was on #199, that's a good 350 posts before the lynch, so, nope.

[Loranthaceae]

stfu

[Loranthaceae]

I mean stop saying noobish things.

[MTD]

I mean stop saying noobish things.

...

[Loranthaceae]

[MTD]

Wow, neil saying we shouldn't talk about the vig and then talks about the chances of him being the vig. Hilarious PR hunting. Condescending his attacker, myeah I do it too but constructively like this:

Like PRs are going to claim just because he talks about how he could be the vig wtf.

[Loranthaceae]

Senseless talk about PRs is PR fishing. What's the sense in him counting the probability of him being PR.

[MTD]

thing that is legitimately bad on my part

This is pretty much the only thing I found in that post making any sense.

[Loranthaceae]

It's called tunnelvision.