[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Cheery Dog]

It's townsided, as Leafsnail points out (and, since there's no communicating mafia faction, I think it's not really mafia?). But it's also misnamed, surely. Wouldn't a better fit for the name "Monty hall mafia" involve the mod revealing that one of the players not on the lynch was VT, and then giving the players the chance to switch or not switch from the original lynch? (This has the same problems though, as far as EV goes).

As it's listed as a 3 player game, that would be the same person.

[Plessiez]

It's townsided, as Leafsnail points out (and, since there's no communicating mafia faction, I think it's not really mafia?). But it's also misnamed, surely. Wouldn't a better fit for the name "Monty hall mafia" involve the mod revealing that one of the players not on the lynch was VT, and then giving the players the chance to switch or not switch from the original lynch? (This has the same problems though, as far as EV goes).

As it's listed as a 3 player game, that would be the same person.

.. oh, right. I meant "one of the people

other than

the lynch". (In the same way that the Monty Hall problem involves picking a door and then having the host reveal the lack of prize behind one of the other two doors.)

[BBmolla]

Do the mafia know the identity of the traitor?

No.

[Leafsnail]

It's townsided, as Leafsnail points out (and, since there's no communicating mafia faction, I think it's not really mafia?). But it's also misnamed, surely. Wouldn't a better fit for the name "Monty hall mafia" involve the mod revealing that one of the players

not

on the lynch was VT, and then giving the players the chance to switch or not switch from the original lynch? (This has the same problems though, as far as EV goes.)

I guess it would be pretty funny to see the mafia subtley jestering

[Kaiveran]

Reopening my

C18++

setup for consideration.

It is an experimental multiball setup based on C9++. Unlike that setup though, it is Modular Open, particularly with respect to the town roles.

To people who saw the original

, sorry for endlessly fucking around with it earlier and not allowing anyone who was trying to review the chance to meaningfully comment. Most of the changes I instituted were a disaster anyway so I've pretty much scaled things back to the way they were. I can assure you it's staying like it is right now.

The main issues I want solved:

1. The swinginess seems strong with this one. Look at how loaded the town can get with powers in those example setups. One of the more important roles or combo roles dying can be a huge hit to the hunting efforts against a particular scumteam. It seems that the best way to alleviate this is to add more townies and expand the setup, but I'm not exactly sure how many to add, and subsequently how to balance the game for the increased number of townies. I basically copied most things whole sale from other generative setups, so any input on that front from people more experienced designing these kinds of setups would be appreciated (if any of them are still around, that is.)

2. I've been trying the properly balance the Universal Roles for a long time, but never have come across something satisfactory. In fact, I don't think anything will ever mitigate the OP possibility of Power Roles in a Masonry. Something tells me it'd be best to just excise that portion of the game, but then it's just a pure Twofold offshoot. It could help with the swinginess, though. I'd like some input from the community as to what option is best.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I've an idea

It involved mutliple treestump lynchers.
1 of these is on mafia.

Edit: Okay, so to put this better.

Normal setup (possibly just some mountaineous) +
2x treestump lyncher on town.
1x treestump lyncher on mafia.
Each lyncher has to be the first to lynch their particular target to win.

Where my thoughts went after seeing the guy who suggested spectators to a game.

[notscience]

So, I had an idea regarding the townsided Popcorn Mafia setup.

Make whoever shoots the gun automatically die regardless of who is shot, scum get a day to decide who gets the gun next. That way, scum go out 1 for 1 rather than 1 for none.

Would that probably make it less townsided?

[Kaiveran]

So, I had an idea regarding the townsided Popcorn Mafia setup.

Make whoever shoots the gun automatically die regardless of who is shot, scum get a day to decide who gets the gun next. That way, scum go out 1 for 1 rather than 1 for none.

Would that probably make it less townsided?

Depends, not exactly understanding what you mean. Do you mean the scum still get to choose a new gunbearer if a townie is targeted, or does the transfer still take effect?

Also is my setup really so horrible as to not even deserve consideration

[LlamaFluff]

Reopening my

C18++

setup for consideration.

It is an experimental multiball setup based on C9++. Unlike that setup though, it is Modular Open, particularly with respect to the town roles.

I will look over it more later.

Your original one was interesting and makes use of two things that tend to be popular in opens (C9++ and Multiball) but was a little... over the top. Was still trying to make notes on it.

[Kaiveran]

I will look over it more later.

Your original one was interesting and makes use of two things that tend to be popular in opens (C9++ and Multiball) but was a little... over the top. Was still trying to make notes on it.

Yeah, just stopping by to say thanks a lot.

And I'm sorry for making it bad for you the flurry of changes and stuff. It wasn't ready to present back then and I shoud have realized that before I posted it.

G'night!

[BBmolla]

What is a spy

[notscience]

So, I had an idea regarding the townsided Popcorn Mafia setup.

Make whoever shoots the gun automatically die regardless of who is shot, scum get a day to decide who gets the gun next. That way, scum go out 1 for 1 rather than 1 for none.

Would that probably make it less townsided?

Depends, not exactly understanding what you mean. Do you mean the scum still get to choose a new gunbearer if a townie is targeted, or does the transfer still take effect?

Also is my setup really so horrible as to not even deserve consideration

Transfer if town is shot.

[Bicephalous Bob]

4 3p lylo Vengeful Townies
2 Mafia Goons

The mafia have daytalk. No lynch is a scum win. The 3p lylo vengeful townies have a vengeful shot in 3-player lylo. Nightkills and vengeful shots are compulsive.

The number of nightkills the mafia get is the number of kills necessary to get the game to lylo. For example, if a goon is lynched on day 1, the mafia get two nightkills. If it's lylo at the start of a night, the mafia have to turn a townie into a vanilla townie. Townies are notified when losing their vengeful ability.

-----

If a goon was lynched on day 1, the chances of mafia winning if all lynches and vengeful shots are random are 33%.

If a townie was lynched on day 1, the townie who lost his vengeful ability and a goon should both claim to be turned into a vanilla townie (unless the mafia are convinced they can get one of the vengeful townies lynched and he'll shoot the other vengeful townie). The odds of scum winning the 1v1 are 50/50. If the counterclaiming goon gets lynched, the townie who lost his vengeful ability is killed and the chances of mafia winning on day 3 are 33%.

[Cheery Dog]

That sounded good up until mafia being forced to fakeclaim.

[Bicephalous Bob]

they don't have to, but it's the logical thing to do in most cases

if two townies are tunneling each other the mafia could confirm the third one

that way, they don't have to claim, but it's risky

if they do intend to claim, the mafia can pick the lynchee. both vengeful townies have to pick right to win

[saulres]

Coming out of the joking in the "Cops Must Go the Way of the Buffalo" thread, I present

Too Many Mods

for discussion.

Numbers subject to change, but currently thinking 9 for Micro Goodness.

7 town mods, 2 scum mods.

The in-game setup is maybe 3 town PRs and 4 VTs, 1 scum PR and 1 goon. Everyone knows what the PRs are. Each player-mod distributes the roles however they'd like, and PMs those distributions to the meta-mod. If there are any duplicates of the scum pairings the meta-mod ask for redos. Once approved, the meta-mod posts all the setups publicly, along with who picked them. Then, the meta-mod randomly selects two players to be the scum-mods.

The game then plays as normal. When it gets to ANY setup's victory condition, it ends. If the setup which ended the game is one the scum-mods set up, they win, otherwise town-mods win.

Scum-mods get one nightkill per night. All PRs take effect only if everyone alive with the same PR chooses the same target. Results are for the high-level mod game, not the in-game setups.

[TheButtonmen]

I've read that three times now and all I can say is what?

How are roles even distributed?

[saulres]

Think of each player as a mod running the same open setup with the same player list, which includes themselves.

The exception is, instead of randomizing the roles, they assign them to the players of their choice.

Each player's goal is to end the game by coming to an end-game resolution created by someone in their faction.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

That sounds hilarious. And also somewhat silly. It looks like scum can win n1 if one of the people they have for scum is lynched. Oh god. It seems simple if town can peg everyone who scumpicked a particular player as town.

[Vi]

Night-kill trivializes setup. Scum should win on Night 2 unless both scum are dead before then by making themselves Town in their own distributions and NKing their distribution's scum.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Wait, what happens if 2 games arrive at a win for a faction at the same time, one belonging to a town-mod and one to a scum-mod?

[TheButtonmen]

Think of each player as a mod running the same open setup with the same player list, which includes themselves.

The exception is, instead of randomizing the roles, they assign them to the players of their choice.

Each player's goal is to end the game by coming to an end-game resolution created by someone in their faction.

What's the incentive to scumhunt / lynch? Players are both scum and town simultaneously? What?

[Vi]

On the other hand the chance of the game reaching Night 2 is very small..

By numbers scum should win N1 4/9 times by predicting the D1 lynch. If the game reaches D2 it comes down to following who claims to have a winning lynch and, if there are more than one, who seems most trustworthy.

That means it's not trivial but still fairly scum-sided... I think.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Think of each player as a mod running the same open setup with the same player list, which includes themselves.

The exception is, instead of randomizing the roles, they assign them to the players of their choice.

Each player's goal is to end the game by coming to an end-game resolution created by someone in their faction.

What's the incentive to scumhunt / lynch? Players are both scum and town simultaneously? What?

It looks like you have to lynch the scummembers chosen by a town-mod. The mod-game is the one that really matters, beyond that it doesn't.

Night-kill trivializes setup. Scum should win on Night 2 unless both scum are dead before then by making themselves Town in their own distributions and NKing their distribution's scum.

You choose your setup before you know that you're scum, or even who your scumpartner is, so that could maybe alleviate this problem a bit.

But the game seems like it can be unwinnable for town if everyone but one scum picks player A as scum and that scum picks any pair at all.

[Kaiveran]

What is a spy

Role from the original incarnation of C9++ (wolf equivalent is Shaman). He could seer a "Role Class" of any player; for example, if he investigated a Cop, he would get a C (or "Investigator") result, if he investigated a Doc, he would get a D (or "Protector") result, etc.. In this game I would also have him detect opposing scum, perhaps at some other price, pending the commentary of reviewers. Speaking of which...

@LlamaFluff: How's the review going? Anything I could do to make it easier?

So, I had an idea regarding the townsided Popcorn Mafia setup.

Make whoever shoots the gun automatically die regardless of who is shot, scum get a day to decide who gets the gun next. That way, scum go out 1 for 1 rather than 1 for none.

Would that probably make it less townsided?

Depends, not exactly understanding what you mean. Do you mean the scum still get to choose a new gunbearer if a townie is targeted, or does the transfer still take effect?

Also is my setup really so horrible as to not even deserve consideration

Transfer if town is shot.

Yeah, that seems the most balanced to me. I'd be willing to participate in a trial run of this.