Mini 1552 - Paranoia [GAME OVER]

[MTD]

lol @ garmr

Seriously Grey, are you

trying

to look scummy? I mean throwing insults and made up thought processes around isn't exactly good scumhunting.

[GreyICE]

Rev that chainsaw MTD. Rev it hard.

[GreyICE]

Say, out of curiosity, where does this grand conviction that Muffin is town come from, oh he who does not know where his vote is?

[MTD]

Say, out of curiosity, where does this grand conviction that Muffin is town come from, oh he who does not know where his vote is?

It doesn't exist except that I don't think a wagon on scum would form like this (without anything scummy, really)

[GreyICE]

Say, out of curiosity, where does this grand conviction that Muffin is town come from, oh he who does not know where his vote is?

It doesn't exist except that I don't think a wagon on scum would form like this (without anything scummy, really)

So let me see if I'm filtering this correctly. You don't have any town read on Muffin at all. You're saying he's at best neutral. You don't have enough information to get a read.

Yet you are aggressively attacking my interactions with him, trying to shut them down, something which should be actively

preventing

you from getting a read.

And you say he has done nothing scummy? Perchance, what do you consider scummy, MTD? You even agreed he wasn't contributing much.

Everyone should explain in their next post why they're not voting Muffin.

Agreed, he isn't contributing much.

Yet now he's done nothing scummy?

I am very confused as to what you would consider scummy, MTD. Do bother to enlighten us.

[zMuffinMan]

First you went for OMGUS

not really. i would have voted you regardless of your vote on me

Then you cried and whined that we were voting for you

no

Then you started trying to feed me industrial grade WIFOM about how the other townies were doing it too.

no. i was asking why, if you truly think something is scummy, you're not questioning other players doing said scummy thing. and so far nothing you've said explains why you're only questioning me about it while ignoring everything else going on the game.

you can scream and shout all you want about me being scum. it's not going to make it true.

Then you lied and accused me of tunneling

by every definition of the term tunneling, you are tunneling

And now you're trying to pretend your play is logical.

that isn't the point i was making, but sure.

what i was actually saying is that you're selectively scum hunting, and if you think something is scummy, then logically you should think other people doing it are scummy. but you don't. and you're focused solely on me.

And finally you're trying to tell me how to be a better townie

not really - but i do leave open the possibility that i'm wrong about my reads and so i centre all my questioning around the possibility that you're misguided town and i'm trying to figure out where you're coming from

[MTD]

@Grey: Because not contributing much

is not a scumtell

And no, what you are doing would not help me get a read there, because when he is lynched, he is lynched. You are pushing a quick lynch and not engaging in any senseful discussion, that is what prevents me from getting a read.

I am not trying to shut your interactions with him down, I am not aggressively attacking them, either, I am trying to get you to

do some real interaction

instead of just screaming "SCUM" at him.

[zMuffinMan]

hm

it just occurred to me that greyice could be a lyncher who's deliberately misrepresenting everything i'm saying

[GreyICE]

hm

it just occurred to me that greyice could be a lyncher who's deliberately misrepresenting everything i'm saying

Okay, this is one of my personal favorite scum tells here. Gather around, townies, because it's a good one. And it is probably the most accurate outside of maybe Amshed's tell - when someone, in the absence of any evidence that alternative alignments exist, starts speculating that another player is non-mafia scum,

THEY ARE MAFIA

.

Always. What happens, boys and girls, is that the scum want to scumhunt. It's so very very hard to fake scumhunting. So a bit of honesty leeches into their play. They speculate the person is scum - but

non-mafia

scum. Because the little bit of honesty is that muffin knows for a fact that I am not mafia - I am not in his quicktopic.cut

Oh muffin. You're not immune. Put enough pressure on, and the scumslip comes sliding out. Plain as day.

Wrapped with a bow. I'll put a final case on this tomorrow and end this thing. So very cute

[shos]

Omg greyice i have so many puns on your posts.

'Its fucking time' - read like its mealtime lol
Wrapped with a bow - careful with the arrows

Ill post from comp at home

[zMuffinMan]

when someone, in the absence of any evidence that alternative alignments exist, starts speculating that another player is non-mafia scum, THEY ARE MAFIA

nope

i'm just considering different alternatives that would explain why you're so gung ho about lynching me and why you keep misrepresenting everything i say, to the point of probably being deliberate.

i never lied, i never "distracted", my vote on you isn't for omgus reasons, and you are tunneling me while ignoring everything else (and to some extent i'm also guilty of this, but that's mostly because of how the game is playing out and i'm still responding to other people's questions about the game)

so i'm trying to understand why you have such a huge hard on for me. don't get me wrong, i'm flattered, but i don't swing that way.

so let's play a game, greyice. a thought experiment. a completely hypothetical universe exists where i'm actually town (i know, i know, you're thinking this universe existing is impossible, but play along for argument's sake, please) and it's a double day. you get me lynched - where do you go from there? you've done nothing outside of tunnel on me and call me scum, and your case on me is, to put it in the nicest possible terms, a steaming pile of shit that i'd laugh at if i didn't think you seriously thought you had a case.

you're not scum hunting (no matter how much you claim you are - and yes, i am fully aware i am also somewhat guilty of this) and your sole contribution to the game is pushing a lynch on a town player.

[zMuffinMan]

Oh muffin. You're not immune. Put enough pressure on, and the scumslip comes sliding out. Plain as day.

also you seem to be labouring under the impression that i think i'm immune to making scum slips when i'm scum or something - i'm not. i'm actually rather shit at scum, but i do tend to avoid very obvious tells, like hunting for third parties, and i do tend to look a lot more town when i'm scum than when i'm actually town.

and this you can call wifom, but it is what it is.

[Antihero]

Nobody Special is being replaced. Tell your friends!

Also, I'll get a vote count up today. Or whenever.

[GreyICE]

when someone, in the absence of any evidence that alternative alignments exist, starts speculating that another player is non-mafia scum, THEY ARE MAFIA

nope

i'm just considering different alternatives that would explain why you're so gung ho about lynching me and why you keep misrepresenting everything i say, to the point of probably being deliberate.

i never lied, i never "distracted", my vote on you isn't for omgus reasons, and you are tunneling me while ignoring everything else (and to some extent i'm also guilty of this, but that's mostly because of how the game is playing out and i'm still responding to other people's questions about the game)

so i'm trying to understand why you have such a huge hard on for me. don't get me wrong, i'm flattered, but i don't swing that way.

so let's play a game, greyice. a thought experiment. a completely hypothetical universe exists where i'm actually town (i know, i know, you're thinking this universe existing is impossible, but play along for argument's sake, please) and it's a double day. you get me lynched - where do you go from there? you've done nothing outside of tunnel on me and call me scum, and your case on me is, to put it in the nicest possible terms, a steaming pile of shit that i'd laugh at if i didn't think you seriously thought you had a case.

you're not scum hunting (no matter how much you claim you are - and yes, i am fully aware i am also somewhat guilty of this) and your sole contribution to the game is pushing a lynch on a town player.

Well lets see. I'll play along, if nothing else because your response will be interesting.

The Kovara wagon is such obvious bullshit that I'm quite happy that it's your counterwagon.

Kovara - 4 (Garmr, Dessew, shos, MTD)

At least two of those players are scum, in my estimation, and I'd actually literally eat my hat on youtube if that's an all town wagon. I'd bet MTD and Dessew, based on their content.

Assuming you're town, then I honestly think that I'd be tempted to look at the lurkers. This post is kinda shit, literally saying "oh I'm demotivated because one person finds me scummy" is like... really...


Now lets continue the thought experiment. First, do the same for me with a fun analysis assuming I'm town.

Now explain what would be the point of the following sequence:

Also, note that I edited in the Rules/Setup Stuff into the first page.

Please read these.

Can the detectives be lynched/nightkilled? After all, they aren't town, and we don't really know if they play against town...

No, the detectives cannot be lynched or nightkilled.

Vote: Empking

44, 48... 109.

If you're testing a theory about the police... where was this theory aired? It wasn't in the game thread, because the game thread already had a very, very, very clear answer.

So where exactly was this theory brewed up? And what was it?

[zMuffinMan]

At least two of those players are scum, in my estimation, and I'd actually literally eat my hat on youtube if that's an all town wagon. I'd bet MTD and Dessew, based on their content

you think there's one or no scum among the players on my wagon?

what do you make of mtd unvoting kovara and voting you?

First, do the same for me with a fun analysis assuming I'm town.

if you are town, i'd look at LLD or NS before i looked at anyone else. i don't believe scum are completely avoiding my wagon (i guess it's *possible* scum are among the players keeping their options open and calling my responses bad buttttt i dunno if they'd just sit back and watch here rather than jump on me) and nothing either of them has done so far strikes me as particularly town

as for the kovara wagon (i'm guessing the wagon you pulled up there is from earlier in the game because shos has been part of my wagon for a while now - or he's a double voter, i dunno) i agree it's likely dessew or mtd is scum; more inclined to think dessew than mtd, but i haven't seen much from either that looks town

i don't have any reads that are anywhere near solid yet, though

Now explain what would be the point of the following sequence

i hadn't read the thread (see my response to dopog in 191) but even if i had i probably would have voted empking to test it because bastard mod, etc

i don't think an admitted bastard mod declaring that X can't be lynched is a "very, very clear answer"

as is, i think there's a possibility votes are secretly counted for the detectives but not registered in the votecounts, but i don't see much good in testing that at the moment, so i'm not

i also have a theory that one detective could be scum and one could be town and they're like treestumps buttttt again, i don't see much good in pursuing this line of thought at the moment, so i'm not

[shos]

In 45 minutes I shall be attending this game, and then another game, and then I'm going to die.

[GreyICE]

At least two of those players are scum, in my estimation, and I'd actually literally eat my hat on youtube if that's an all town wagon. I'd bet MTD and Dessew, based on their content

you think there's one or no scum among the players on my wagon?

I think your wagon is all town. This might be flavored by the fact I think you're scum, but I believe LLD wants you dead for the exact same reasons I do, and NS is clearly applying pressure to people he wants to apply pressure to (same with Shos).

what do you make of mtd unvoting kovara and voting you?

MTD's play is frankly bizarre, such as his defense of you while voting you, and that amazing sequence above.

If you're town, I'd be a hell of a lot more suspicious, because "I don't have an actual town read on muffin, but you're playing really scummy" seems designed to make us both look worse. OTOH I don't see him defending you quite like this if you were scumbuddies, he seems a bit skittish.

First, do the same for me with a fun analysis assuming I'm town.

if you are town, i'd look at LLD or NS before i looked at anyone else. i don't believe scum are completely avoiding my wagon (i guess it's *possible* scum are among the players keeping their options open and calling my responses bad buttttt i dunno if they'd just sit back and watch here rather than jump on me) and nothing either of them has done so far strikes me as particularly town

as for the kovara wagon (i'm guessing the wagon you pulled up there is from earlier in the game because shos has been part of my wagon for a while now - or he's a double voter, i dunno) i agree it's likely dessew or mtd is scum; more inclined to think dessew than mtd, but i haven't seen much from either that looks town

i don't have any reads that are anywhere near solid yet, though

LLD? I do admit I want that one explained. NS... seriously.

Are we gonna play 'kick NS again'

'cause I've done it and it's fun but it's not really anything other than a cheap way to mislynch NS.

And I don't get a scum vibe from him here so I'd like to know why.

Now explain what would be the point of the following sequence

i hadn't read the thread (see my response to dopog in 191) but even if i had i probably would have voted empking to test it because bastard mod, etc

i don't think an admitted bastard mod declaring that X can't be lynched is a "very, very clear answer"

as is, i think there's a possibility votes are secretly counted for the detectives but not registered in the votecounts, but i don't see much good in testing that at the moment, so i'm not

i also have a theory that one detective could be scum and one could be town and they're like treestumps buttttt again, i don't see much good in pursuing this line of thought at the moment, so i'm not

See I have a theory too

I have a theory that the scum don't know jack shit about the police, because this game is named "Paranoia". And the scum knowing everything about how the police work is the OPPOSITE of paranoia.

But Police = Cop = Scary. Can the Police determine alignment? Is there someone in the game thread who knows what they know? Oooh. Man I really want to know how they work.

Like Kovara did a little granted but Kovara is an open book. It's a bit of a coloring book, but like he's absolutely fascinated. "Oooh there's this toy! And that toy! How do they work! I want to try things!"

You just saw "Police" and wanted to test them. Figure out how they tick. See if we can eliminate the police. Make us not trust them because maybe the mod is lying to us (I really don't think the mechanic is Antihero is lying to us about everything, and if it is I don't really care because that isn't Paranoia, that's just stupid).

See you say you wouldn't hunt for "other scum" as scum, but I see you doing it twice and I get a little suspicious. So tell me Muffin, if you saw that there was a police faction, a group of COPS as scum, what would you do?

[zMuffinMan]

I think your wagon is all town. This might be flavored by the fact I think you're scum, but I believe LLD wants you dead for the exact same reasons I do, and NS is clearly applying pressure to people he wants to apply pressure to (same with Shos).

right. we're talking about a hypothetical universe where i'm town here. what do you make out how my wagon has played out and why scum are avoiding it, then?

coz i am perfectly aware that LLD is sheeping you, and i am perfectly aware that shos and NS are voting for "pressure" reasons (which is laughable because i don't react to pressure but whatever) <- none of these are town-looking reasons to vote me and all of these i could see coming from scum. the only reason i don't think shos is scum is because some of the things he said on p4 looked mildly town, but his vote on me is pathetic

so i don't have a scum read on any of the other people voting me (i don't have any real read on them except for a somewhat mild town read on shos) but i don't believe scum have completely left me alone this game. which is why i'd be looking at LLD or NS before i look elsewhere if you happened to be town

If you're town, I'd be a hell of a lot more suspicious, because "I don't have an actual town read on muffin, but you're playing really scummy" seems designed to make us both look worse

maybe. but then i don't really get why he's taking that position unless it's an effort to buddy-but-not-really-buddy me (which doesn't make him look any better if i do happen to get lynched)

it's awkward but he's not the only one who seems to be taking this position, either

So tell me Muffin, if you saw that there was a police faction, a group of COPS as scum, what would you do?

i wouldn't assume (and i'm not assuming) that they're cops, and if they were a different faction with no relation to scum win con, i probably wouldn't care. at the very least, if i were to do something about it in thread, i'd do more than a naked vote on one of them - coz how the fuck does that benefit me in any way if i'm scum?

[zMuffinMan]

See you say you wouldn't hunt for "other scum" as scum, but I see you doing it twice and I get a little suspicious

also, suspicious why?

i said i don't do it as scum because i don't do it as scum (and you can take that as wifom, or you can take that as a statement of fact that i've never done it before so this would be the first game if i'm scum). i avoid obvious scum tells when i'm scum precisely because it brings unwanted attention my way.

the reason i'm considering all options for players that i think might have an anti-town win con is because that would necessarily conflict with my own.

i thought you could be a lyncher because your argument on me looked like you were deliberately misrepresenting everything i was saying <- i'm not sure if you'd do this as factional scum, it's risky because of the backlash you'll receive if you do manage to lynch me. lyncher makes sense for that reason. or you could just be really cocky and think you can talk your way out of any trouble you get into for pushing my lynch through on a really shitty basis.

and i have a number of theories about what the detectives are and how they relate to the game; testing whether i could vote for them was the first step in eliminating at least one of these theories.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The fact you think I'm sheeping him is cute.

The fact you're trying to throw up these walls and go bullets for bullets with Grey makes you scum.

[zMuffinMan]

if you aren't sheeping him, then what are you doing?

i broke down one of his posts into "bullets" (#205). the rest of them i've been responding to key parts only. but even if it were bullet for bullet, lol at you thinking that makes me scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

what do you think you accomplish with your posts above? you're arguing with someone who thinks you're scum and will almost certainly not change his mind. You're not stupid enough to not realize this.

So the only real intent you can have in making this drawn out bullets for bullets/points for points argument with him is to frustrate outside readers and create apathy towards you and he, so that people fall off your lynch wagon. Very common scum strategy, but very obvious.

Besides, you also stooped to asking "why me" which is death anyway, so.

[zMuffinMan]

frustrate outside readers

actually, it was to break down exactly why everything he's saying is incorrect - yes, it was for the purpose of outside readers (i've made that quite clear already - i even blatantly stated that's what i'm doing in 183). if that frustrates an outside reader, then why the fuck are they playing mafia?

you also stooped to asking "why me"

you're missing the point, but sure, whatever. if that's your stance, then same question to you. what do you think you're trying to accomplish with this? you're claiming this is scummy and you seem unwilling to change your mind. so what's the point of bringing this up - is the only real intent to frustrate outside readers?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Because instead of massive walls of text that create apathy, I've given two succinct points for people to understand. Really, I don't need to say anything besides GUT >=D!, but I've decided I'm feeling generous to my fellow players today.

Anyway, no more questions~. Die now~.

[zMuffinMan]

i suppose i could have formatted it better but it would have been essentially me breaking down the six points he gave in the same manner in a different format, soooooooo, not really sure what your problem with it is